[Vehicle] Prowler is the weakest tank

Vanguards are good breakthrough tanks. Magriders are good at flanking and attacking from unexpected positions.

And prowlers shoot twice...which makes them a defensive tank but it's not good at it because you don't do enough damage, don't have any good cover to shoot from and pretty much vehicle battles depend on numbers so you'll get decimated 1v2 even if you are in the perfect position.
I find the prowler under-powered. This tank only excels at long range PMB destruction, but you know what's construction, it has 0 impact in the game, very useless.

Other than that as I said before prowler is bad at even defending. There is no cover on the maps...Bases should have cover for tanks - protect the hull of the tank. Prowler is maybe the biggest tank in the game so it's easy to hit. And no defense vs Air, unless you decide to waste extreme amounts of certs for an only AA weapon and you also need a second gunner for it to be effective.
Which you're not going to find because no one wants to shoot these boring inaccurate flak guns....all you do is hold the button and wait for one to hit to scare the plane off.
Something needs to be done, for specifically tank gameplay.

IF we're going to be true to the word itself, Magrider is definitely the "most Vulnerable". They have almost no options for dealing with Air if they go full AV or Anti-P and the biggest reason is the lack of a fast Turret swivel which broadcasts to every ESF in the general vicinity which flank you can pull up right behind them from and just hover there getting free shots on an already weaker Chassis. (this also applies to a single Harrasser duo)

There's a reason you see most VS zergs sticking only to Infantry Farms and Arial Alerts. It's b/c their MBT squads just don't have the ridiculous Side to Side acceleration they used to have YEARS back when the Mag was outperforming the others by a factor of 1.5x.

Just watch from timestamp 7:22 of: youtube-/watch?v=_by9XetFk10&t=442s ....to see how easily they fold against a smaller number of more traditional MBTs. When you do see a VS armor column lately, it's mostly AP lightnings and Battle Sundies

as an mbt main, no its is not underpowered, the vanguard is just too easy to use compared to it and has a clear win situation on most cases
all you need to do is grind a lot of hours in the game to see what situation are a clear win

tips: dont use the gatekeeper - you will lose 10/10 battles
vulcan is the best anti vanguard at all ranges and in an all out ****uation will benifit you more in a charge to the back tactic
no you cant win in a straight out slug fest - the vanguard has a huge advantage against you

you dont have a positive ttk on the vanguard, nothing you can do about it, and this forum is too toxic to even discuss it
go to reddit and make a civil post about it
yes the barrage is useless in a straight out slug fest

all you can do is keep with it and learn how to bypass its disadvantages into something unique to you
this will take you a lot, and i mean a lot of time
you're gonna need a dedicated gunner that know's what you're planning to do without talking
and yes, you need headphones to hear other tanks around you

dps wise the prowler without the barrage is has a slight 0.5 sec ttk on the magrider(this is extremely important on close range, medium range wise if you miss you lose)
on the vannie its more complex, you are always in the negavite and you dont have a speed advantage(yes people cry that 2kmph is huge on the ground, dont make me laugh), all you can do is outwit the enemy and get into a charge to the back or to surprise him from the sides(with the barrage you might win, better get into his *** 10/10 times)

anyway its not underpowered, its just a complex tank with no clear win conditions, the magrider feels the same on that
but its advantage is its ability to hover to your back/side and outdps you like that or from medium long range to make you miss shots
which is highly situational

anyway, dont give up keep at it!, its a great tank and i like it a lot

I think a few more good points are needed to build a bridge from point A to argument B.
For example: "the Vanguard is a much more defensive tank because of its low acceleration meaning it runs the risk of being exposed for greater periods of time. Additionally good use of its shield in anything but one-on-one standard encounters not only involves soaking up damage but being able to utilize cover in between those periods of soaking up damage. Low acceleration does not help in this department much."
That's how you make an argument, regardless of whether or not the point is valid.

The same can be said of all the tanks so faulting the Prowler for this one does not come off as sincere as you probably intend.
On the other hand, teamwork.

Actually, you'll want to force semi-auto fire with that. It controls the functional bloom a bit better. Same with the Bursters.
It also sounds like, from that explanation, the weapon got the job done, if it scared the aircraft away.

actually, if you clutch the gears then its the same acceleration, the only difference is the reverse acceleration

You were quite literally there yesterday when the Prowlers easily beat the Vanguards almost every time at the Bastion (and as I said in-game at the time, TR really did give it all no matter how much they had to die to keep the base). The way the fight progressed it was basically that the Vanguards and Prowler would soften each other up, and then it was the Lightnings that would rush forwards to try and finish off a target that went behind cover. But when this stalemate was broken it was ineviteably by Prowlers (and Harassers) that would beat the ever living hell out of Vanguards. At which point the Lightnings would protect the base long enough for more Lightnings and Vanguards to be pulled.

This also ruins that mystical idea that the Vanguard is somehow a breakthrough tank. No tank is a breakthrough tank, it's a useless tactic. You are deliberately going to leave cover to close the distance at which point you'll be:

• an easier target so they'll target you first
• a target that has more chance to hit enemies so they'll retarget you to protect themselves
• visible to more enemies and often previously unseen enemies, who will all gladly try and get the kill first.

Doing a "breakthrough" is nonsense, a suicide tactic that will rarely even work! Lightnings might slightly fall in this category but they'll rarely just randomly rush up the road, the situation has to be that you know almost all enemy tanks are repairing and that the Vanguard will idle by supressing any infantry that shows itself. This was visible also in case of the TR, although their Prowlers would more often drive up the road themselves because of their speed, maneuverability and firepower to finish off enemies.
The best thing about the Vanguard there and then wasn't that it was dangerous on it's own, it was more that while a Lightning sided with it the Vanguard could tank the damage and retreat while the Lightning would be threat enough to discourage enemies from moving up and have the opportunity to finish off enemy tanks.
Basically the Vanguard isn't easier because it is better, it's easier because it has less options available than the Prowler. The Vanguard can sit there and tank while slugging right back, and move a little to reduce the chances of being outmaneuvered. The most intelligent thing you have to do while driving a Vanguard is "gee I'm getting hit by many things and losing this battle, I'd better activate my shield and hope that my terrible reverse speed will get me behind cover in time".

You've just said that the Vulcan is basically better than an Enforcer at range. Because when it comes to shooting at vehicles the Enforcer and Gatekeeper are close in performance.
Also since the Vanguard is the worst maneuverable target who can only compete a little with the Prowler when you have to drive straight lines (hint: even on the straightest stretch of road you'll rarely drive in a straight line) the Vanguard should win a straight slugmatch. Because the Prowler has all the cards to dicatate the battle. If the Prowler could win a straight slugmatch then the Vanguard wouldn't be able to win any engagement with the Prowler in an equal skill equal knowledge battle.

Funny, wasn't there an ability that allowed the Prowler to out-DPS a shielded Vanguard and win a straight slugmatch? I wonder what that ability is called...

Barrage is a wonderful tool that if you paid attention during the battle last night chewed through shielded Vanguards. It wasn't a done deal right away, but allowed even 1/2 Prowlers to threaten Vanguards. This became especially true for the longer ranged fights: The Vanguard would have no option but to activate it's shield against the more accurate and higher DPS Prowler who has an easier time ranging in shots due to it's dual shot and with Anchor it was even easier. Then when the shield was gone and the Vanguard appeared again (assuming it had a good cover to repair up) the Prowler would be able to barrage it's way through the Vanguard and kill it.

What disadvantages? The Prowler is fast, maneuverable, has 2 shots to fire making ranging easier and reducing the punishment for misses, has the highest DPS of any ground vehicle in the game (with Barrage, without Barrage the Starfall can keep up. Yes the VS is so ridiculous that their Flash weapon has the same DPS as a Prowler).
The only thing you could call a disadvantage here is that the Prowler doesn't have the faction traits of the other two tanks, and that the Prowler is build like a pavement tile (the Vanguard is the cinderblock). This makes the Prowler the most vulnerable to uneven terrain and reduces it's maneuverability through tight terrain. Those are about all the disadvantages the Vanguard has.

Could you show the calculations for that? I find this hard to believe.

Speed is definitely important, but mostly when combined with maneuverability. Without it you can't really use that speed to good effect except when rushing towards a weakened opponent who went into cover for repairs.

The Prowler is a very easy tank. It's fast, maneuverable, easy to use at any range and is arguably the best for long range and has great DPS. The only reason it's not the least complex tank out there is because of the Vanguard: The Vanguard is tanky. Aaand... What else? On a straight line road it's fast and if you use the gear trick it's terrible acceleration isn't a big deal? Whoop dee doo! The Vanguard is the least complex because it simply does not have the options!

Loooool, I haven't heard about someone clutching acceleration in AGES

Demigan you assume waaaaay too much of what happened yesterday

We had 15 prowlers
You had 7 with basilisks

Wbat do you excpect to happen?
And we had 2 good ones at that and we had a dedicated lock on's heavies/valk c4 drops

The thing about the gatekeeper that i said to get away from it - its worse than the basilisk against armor, of couse i wouldnt take it
Low dps, low accuracy, garbage of a weapon useless at all aspects

Now to the vulcan - at close range, yes it is better than the enforcer, you have the mjolnir with 2 sec less time to kill than the vulcan
A close range higher damage than the vulcan, got complaints?

As for ttk ive shown you a lot of times all the ttk calculations and every goddamn time you need them recalculated again and again to show the same results
Go look and calculate it yourself this time

No, the prowler cant simply go press F and win in a straight out fight, so guess which is easier to pick up as even getting shot to the back, pressing f might still save you

The disadvantages - worse ttk, same speed, no clear win conditions, less muzzle velocity, high accuracy need, low medium range only the pilot will shoot as the vulcan is for close range only
No options in regarding as to what gun to take, its slways ap+vulcan because taking anything else and you cant take out a tank

And btw, i shot you with a decimator at 500 meters, i dont think you understand a lot about tank survival

Not even my beloved MBT-H?

You just condensed a battle that started before a 1 and a half hour final alert and had at least 50 vehicles be destroyed per side into "we had 15 Prowlers and you had 7 with Basilisks". Then say that I assume things.

Also you were on that hill getting shot at by Basilisks from our Sunderers. If there were Vanguards with Basilisks there weren't many as any Vanguard I shadowed had a Halberd or Enforcer. So my guess is that you mistook the Sunderer Basilisks for those of Vanguards.

As for 15 Prowlers, where would they all be stationed? Most of the time the NC spend at the crossroads leading up to the Bastion. The most Prowlers that shot at me or I shot at was 3 at the gate in the wall, 1 at the outhouse overlooking the area (usually the same pilot accompanied by the same Lightning), and between 1 to 4 Prowlers down the road coming from the other base. That's 8 Prowlers. Twice the TR managed a good pushback with lots of vehicles that could have contained 15 Prowlers but they met another large vehicle column that stopped them and pushed them back twice as well. And since I doubt any of us would have been able to visit, check and count the amount of vehicles and their topguns due to the large frontal area of the vehicle battle at the time and all the obstacles making it nigh impossible to see even 1/3rd of the total force at any one time I think we can write your weird reply off as pure bias or an attempt of defamation of the NC drivers just to "prove" your point.

As for C4 Valks, there were a lot of Valkyrie pulls but during my time there I didn't see any one survive for more than a minute because it was 1 Valk against 1 Skyguard backed up with copious amounts of Basilisks. Maybe one was trolling around the side or rear lines but since I've been just about everywhere on that battlefield during the loooong and pretty good battle and saw no evidence whatsoever of Valk dropped C4 fairies I doubt it.

It keeps up in performance with the Enforcer and sticks close to it's DPS as far as I've calculated it. After a cycle of 12 seconds (where the Enforcer fired 1 magazine and reloaded) the difference is 200 damage if I recall correctly?

Yes, it needs much closer range, has less long-range capabilities, more drop, more COF and is generally not as easy to use as the Vulcan. This is why the Mjolnir Harasser is pulled 1/3rd to 1/4rth the amount of times of the Vulcan.
And if you are going "Ah-HA but what about the MBT versions!", the Mjolnir is used again 1/3rd to 1/4rth as much as both the Vulcan and the Gatekeeper.

Yeah a slugmatch in a vacuum with both tanks standing nose-to-nose doing nothing, that's a fair comparison to the in-game world! Why don't we look at something actually telling, say how everyone from the lowest worst player to the best of the best and everyone inbetween performs with these weapons? Say the performance stats? And what do you know they prove you wrong... Weird eh?

You realise that the rear armor isn't protected by the shield anymore and the side-armor-shield doesn't give enough protection to make you win a straight DPS battle with a Barrage Prowler?

Also as I already explained to you, if the Vanguard couldn't win a straight up slugmatch with it's shield on, what kind of battle could it win? It's less maneuverable, less speedy, has less chance to get safely behind cover due to it's length which incidentally also means that during the standard pop-up attacks the Vanguard is vulnerable the longest during both exiting and entering cover even if the velocities had been the same and oh when repairing up the Vanguard also takes the longest to repair. And due to the way repair guns overheat it takes half an overheat cycle longer to repair a Vanguard from burning to full.

Worse TTK... If you do a full-frontal slugmatch without using anything else. Like Barrage.
"No clear win conditions"? You mean that "any situation where you don't do a full-frontal slugmatch with the Vanguard you are the most likely to win" isn't clear enough?
And don't go "ah but with skill the Vanguard could win", because the same counts for a straight slugmatch. And if we go for ranged slugmatches, the Prowler is even more guaranteed to win.
Same speed? Maybe check those velocities again? Because the one's I see show a difference of about 10% and much less need to overgear, which many players don't seem to know about anymore.
Less muzzle velocity? Well we could call it the same muzzle velocity because it's about 10% difference right? (25m/s faster for all Vanguard main guns).
High accuracy need? The Prowler needs the least accuracy of all MBT main guns. Because it's got 2 shots, not 1. This also makes it easier to range in and get that accuracy. And the moment the Vanguard might have an edge in ranged combat due to it's velocity you are far enough away to deploy and have a much higher velocity again.
Low medium range? The Halberd is the most used topgun for all factions except the VS, who still used it a ton but prefer the Saron. Last time I checked the Halberd was an excellent medium and even long range weapon which is used the most because it's simply one of the best ranged AV weapons you can equip in a secondary. This also makes fun of your "no options" as the option is the Halberd, just like on the Vanguard.

Yes I noticed you hitting me in the back as I killed a Prowler, it was a nice shot (but if I recall correctly not exactly your first either). I also noticed that at the time you were spotted, standing on that hill and about 70m away. The top of that mountain is maybe 200m away from the position I was in so 500m... Unless you were on a Valkyrie even farther up I think we can chalk this up to more bullcrap.

Just checked, yep where you killed me and the top of that mountain are about one side of a Hex away. I think that's slightly more than 200m distance. You were a bit less than halfway up that mountain on my deathscreen, so between 70 to 100m. But if you really really want you can blow that up by 5x and say it's 500m and say to everyone what kind of a big boy you are! Yes you are! My patience with ridiculous claims is gone so you'll get treated like a little kid if you act like one! Now if you are good you could get a lollipop, but it's in the closet and that closet is in your terms over 50m away! Yes! Now go take a hike and get that lollipop!

When are people gonna learn.... All factions have their pro/con. If you seriously think something is better than your said faction then try using the one you think is stronger.

Very few situations where one faction is clearly stronger or weaker, and MBT is arguable at best.

The grass is always greener on the other side. The vehicle stats are listed and available for anyone to see/use. Check the stats, if they back you up, then yes, the prowler is the worst. However, if memory serves, people have brought up this topic before and the stats have always been shown that the prowler consistently performs better. I could be wrong, the stats may have changed. I don't care enough at this point to look them up.

The prowler is my least favorite. This "easier to hit because you have two trys" argument is nonsense. If it's a tight fight and you miss a shot, you're done. Maybe it's just me, but I find it much easier to time and land 1 shot than doubletapping 2 hits on target. And if you aim between each shot, your dps goes way down. I admit I'm not a tank main, so that might be it, bit as a noob tanker the other two are a lot easier to use. I do the best in the Vanguard but have the most fun in the Mag.

It's not non-sense because you can output some damage between reloads if you miss, were as it's just 0 if you use any other tank.
You also get 2 chances to hit an esf instead of 1.

Ahh i didnt get a shot on you from the back, not even once, i was almost on top of the montain, about 3/4 up, you were at peak render distance front/side armor to me
Too predictable to even miss

The prowlers were deployed at the main bridge near c point
We had 65% pop s... yeah i wonder why the vanguards died

Now to the less speedy, its total bs 2kmph is bs on the fight, if it were 8 10 kmph i would agree, less manucerable? Nope, slower reverse? True

I would engage my vulcan gunner at less than 10 meters as it will lack alpha damage to kill in close range, at support distance he can do what he wants, if i can kill a vanguard at distance, the i could do it with the halberd harasser as well, but the muzzle velocity as the ap is much more apropriate, so i sacrafice long range dps for survival in closr range
Plus id use the mjolnir at the same distance

Worse ttk - vanguard - enforcer 8 sec to kill a prowler
0 850 dmg
4 850x2+4×325
8 850x3+8×325
Prowler is ded

Thanks for the ttk
Introduction
Now do it with the ap gatekeeper and calculate it with the prowler ap
Do it, if you do it then calculate 8 sec of 85% damage negation ability and the prowlers 30% for 15 sec
Its a clear win condition
Something that is nice to auto resort to, sadly i dont have that kind of ludury

Anyway, you're welcome

Wanns hear something more absurd?

Lets say there are 6 prowler snd 1 vanguard

If the prowlers are stock reload and all start shooting at the same vanguard for 8 sec and all with the gatekeeper to his front armor
Lets say this absurd and dumb situation will happen, and the vanguard has ap and the enforcer

The prowlers do ((1200x3+800x3)x6)x0.15 = 5400 damage to the vanguard
In the meanwhile the vanguard took down 1 prowler
850x3+325x8= 5150
Yeah... give a tank that ability in wot where there is literally more than 20 times over tanks and that one would be the best ingame and people would still yell that its just the same as any other tanks
While everyone else:

^ hey einstein, it's not a timed Invulnerability shield

That is pretty absurd!

Because if six prowlers all fired at the same Vanguard from the front they would kill it in half a second without any reloads or Gatekeepers. The half second is because of the delay between shots.

Even with just HEAT shells dealing 712.5 damage per shell (475 damage with a -50% resistance on MBTs) only five prowlers would be needed to all but instakill the Vanguard, well before any meaningful damage could be dealt in return.

If the shield was active at the time of firing, the six prowlers would deal 5728.5 damage after the 0.5s delay. A grand total of three rockets from a single Gatekeeper would finish the Vanguard off. Therefore, if all six Prowlers and a single Gatekeepr opened fire at a single shielded Vanguard from the front with completely stock tanks aside from said GKs, the Vanguard would die in half a second anyway.

Can you even try to make a legitimate argument for once?

Nah its not, but this ****uation is theoretically possible
If you sctivate your shield exactly on sight and start shooting
For example when you push a hill pass on amerish and both get an angle at the same time
This is possible on some bases, and quite funny to see 3 vanguards taking down 4 or 5 prowlers like its meant to be
Makes me giggle every time

Did you hear about the F button on the vanguard?(85% resistance to all beside c4 damage sources for 8 sec, 45 sec cooldown)