Hello Boys, ya miss me?

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by BamaRage, Jul 15, 2019.

  1. Savadrin


    preach, lol.
  2. Demigan

    Dont get me wrong, I've used the Gatekeeper and it does feel like a horrorshow. And I didnt compare it but I'm sure the AI capabilities will be far behind other AV weapons of its ilk. Just the fact that you can literally hit every rocket in someone's face and have them walk away is an insult to the player, its AI capabilities should at minimum mean it can kill infantry in one salvo or it should get compensation in another area. Due to the slow velocity and more intermittend firing pattern it wouldnt be as OP as in the early days to give it a higher hit chance. I would actually just take the slight homing ability of the Siegebreaker or whatever its called and give it to the Gatekeeper along with the ability to kill infantry in one salvo.
    But what I'm against is saying that its flat out the worst by far. It keeps up in the department its supposed to: AV.

    But how much is it a victim complex if its actually true? I dont dissome mewling about how an OP weapon was nerfed, I talk about the state of the game and how NC is treated. The NC MAX was clearly overnerfed in its entire AI department. While the new battlerifles are all miles better than their battlerifle/semi auto sniper counterparts the NC version clearly has the most drawbacks and least useful attachments. The other doku weapons except one are clearly inferior with inferior options. The new things that are on PTS give the Vanguard no extra while the other two do get buffs and the topgun for the Vanguard is basically designed to nerf the vehicle while the VS gets a balanced and very entertaining option based on NC traits and the TR get something that is undoubtedly going to be OP again as a type of mid-range Vulcan with hgh accuracy.

    I dont think there is any recent change that either did nothing for the NC, ignored the NC or was/is going to be a downright inferior nerf option for the NC. And I dont see any change in the PTS notes looking to set that right.
  3. TR5L4Y3R


    yupp and that is such a great way of ballancing stuff, right?




    no it isn´t .. and i say that as VS main
    also i do rotate between factions, and none of the new NC doku weapons gave me a incentive to get them ..
    i´m even considering of getting the warden over the bishop, unlike with the obelisk and dragoon ..
  4. JibbaJabba

    Most, most of it.

    There are imbalances here and there. I gripe about them myself sometimes. Overall faction balance though is really good considering what a challenge it is. The overall balance is close enough that people can go blue in the face arguing about it. Walls of text chasing walls of text endlessly for days. Good points are made for sure. But they are made by all 3 parties.

    If it's close enough for discussions like that then I would say most of "faction X is the weakest/worst/UP" is just victim complex.... Most of it.
    • Up x 2
  5. JibbaJabba

    In an imperfect world, sure.

    In a perfect world you would balance by ...y'know.. balancing. Perfectly even, all 3 weaps.

    In an imperfect world you get them as close as you can. One is gonna be better than the other two, one is gonna be worse. And if you've had one be the best for 6 years straight, having it be the worse is still undesirable. But if it comes to that, better it be the worse than one of the other two continue to be.


    And as a mostly VS main, I absolutely love the Bishop. I sunk ASP points into my NC medic just for that thing. Opinions I guess.

    Edit: It pairs so nice with the GD-7F... something I can't pull off on VS. Yet here we are arguing that NC is the worst or something... I dunno?
    • Up x 1
  6. TR5L4Y3R


    no, neither is desireable ... not one being continualy the worst and not another exchanging the place for it ..

    so we go and use NS weapons and vehicles only .. not attempting for ES variants to perform to "similar" capability compared to their equivalents?

    ftfy ...
  7. Demigan

    Do get the Bishop. Even if you "nerf" it by using its attachments it remains a far superior weapon than just about any counterpart. Its better than the Warden, the Vandal or a semi-auto sniper due to its accuracy and lack of damage degradation. So while equipping the attachments might not make you competitive compared to the other two weapons, the fun factor of shooting through people and the fact that it remains superior to any non-doku battlerifle option the TR and VS can bring keep it a great choice.

    Just not as good a choice as the other two can be. How about an attachment that severely increases recoil for 16 extra damage within 10m falling back to 0 extra damage at 20m...?
  8. Demigan

    But it has to be worse within reason. If each team gets a faction specific gun then on average it would still need to be equal with each having niches or ways to use it in general combat.
    But if one is objectively much worse, like can only get half of the stats of the other two options across 4 different weapon options... then there is an obvious problem that needs to be fixed.
  9. AllRoundGoodGuy

    I missed you bama, I'll have to be sure to take better aim next time.
    • Up x 3
  10. Demigan

    It used to be imbalances here and there. The Vanguard remains a sore point, as does the NC having the worst starter weapon for Heavies and the proven fact that low-ROF weapons are inferior to higher ROF weapons due to the punishment for misses. Or weapons like the Gatekeeper being below par or ZOE that should finally get the revamp it deserves.

    But lately those "here and there" imbalances have ramped up to "how can the NC be screwed over this time?". And each iteration gets more blatantly worse, with the changes on PTS taking the cake where first the NC does not get a buff through a new gimmick, toy or opened up slot and then receives a topgun that is a straight nerf compared to almost every other option, including the humble Bassi, while the VS gets a balanced fun toy and the TR an OP one.
    I'm sorry I just realized I said that the NC getting nothing is taking the cake, but that already goes to overnerfing an entire weapon class on the MAX.
    • Up x 1
  11. LordKrelas

    I play all Three.
    NC is the literal easiest farm, past the rare A-Team squads & Platoons.
    Any new NC is packing a gun that demands skills they lack.
    Any NC MAX, to this point, if seen outside a small-room is not a threat, and if you're a MAX, just vaporize them.
    Their Armor? Yeah the massive target, with a shotgun is grand, or the slowest reloading main-cannon for a 50 more damage.
    Or that their ability only lacks 6 seconds with directional-influence only, so flanking invalidates it entirely.

    How about ES launchers?
    TR has the best one, packing the Striker, an Anti-air weapon that actually works decently.
    NC has.. the Phoenix, which is a 200 meter weapon with a list of problems; and forgotten about till a bug made it have a DPS*.
    (*have a decent one, there is always a DPS for a weapon)

    VS gets to complain that the original Canis, was Deserved by the VS, with the full-headshot modifier: most of their argument? That they can't use it, and VS is screwed, No stats, just "We should have this like this"

    • NC complains that their entire arsenal of MAX AI Weapons are now out-classed by statistical data.
    • NC provides data on the comparisons between new weapon releases.
    • NC showcases the problems with the new weapon releases, with Data, videos & demonstrations.
    • NC literally got a Flash-Weapon, that was barely able to function, TR got a flamethrower, VS got the Starfall: A Tank Killer.
    • NC got a Carbine required to reload constantly, but has the longest reload times.
    • NC received for Battle-rifles, the Bishop with a piercing mechanic. VS gets an infinite ammo 3-shot kill battle-rifle that topped the list.
    • NC in the new beta, has no improvements, just a gun that has no upside at all; Or can you find one with that railgun?
    • NC lost their sticky-grenades for like a month or two.
    NC has statistically lost this game for years.
    NC has literally provided massive amounts of data on subjects.
    VS gets to complain that they're being "nerfed out of the game", with No data.
    NC Complains with Data, about their problems? Out-of-the-woodwork comes VS.
    Out-of-the-woodwork comes "Someone has to be on the bottom" Arguments.
    Where were these arguments when VS complained that they needed Hitscan infinite-ammo Sniper rifles?
    Just for NC, when they get barely 1 new gun, that isn't eclipsed by something in TR or VS's hands?

    The all-mighty charger; You need to reload constantly, or lose the gimmick.
    But you suffer from the longest reload time (in all cases) in the New carbines.
    The only Carbine that loses the gimmick for periods: Which also barely has a purpose.

    What exactly has been in Favor of NC lately?
    What hasn't been in Favor of TR or VS?
    If someone has to be on the bottom, it's a bit ******** for one faction to Always remain there.

    Oh do I need to mention, VS has gained every mechanic NC has been given past Fire-delays?
    Piercing? Granted to VS rapidly onto a more practical platform.
    Godsaw's Perk? AV-Mode: Given to VS, in better form.
    VS never loses a perk, They literally hold the monopoly on infinite-ammo weapons.
    While TR & NC get an implant drop that isn't viable for them, only for VS: Unlike the other two paired Implants for this, where VS can get benefits from them as much as NC & TR.
    In case you don't know the Implant: Cold-heart.
    ...Where VS swims in infinite-ammo weapons.
  12. Savadrin


    1) Behold the price of being a rebel.

    2) The VS are forced to wear spandex, the grand faction anti-trait.
    • Up x 1
  13. Campagne

    HOLY ******* **** PEOPLE.

    Honestly. :p

    And as for the Bishop, if you like it, great. So do I, it's quite pretty and unlike a semi-auto sniper it holds its damage and accuracy and doesn't bloom all over the place when firing.

    But it's also pretty much objectively the worst of the three Doku battle rifles. Even without attachments.

    The Obelisk has no projectile drop and a heat mechanic allowing for an infinite number of shots and effectively an infinite magazine size if handled properly. The Dragoon has a slightly higher RoF allowing for objectively faster kills in all circumstances and features an automatic receiver to reach the weapon's maximum RoF. The Bishop has 2-4 extra rounds (assuming a player fires all six shots in a row to overheat the Obelisk) and that's it.

    With attachments the Bishop's magazine advantage disappears. The Tungsten liner and Sabot rounds nerf the weapon without providing substantial benefits. The TL greatly increases vertical recoil while the extra damage only prevents an auxiliary shield from increasing the STK while within 10 meters. There is no effect on nanoweave. Likewise the Sabot rounds reduce the weapon's RoF by 10% (making it the longest TTK of the three) and allows for bullets to penetrate infantry. This happens exactly never, especially given the weapon is a long range gun which suffers terribly in close quarters even before the RoF reduction.

    The Dragoon shouldn't ever use any attachments either aside from a standard grip and a heavy magazine in my opinion. Single-fire barrel isn't an inherent nerf at least but as everyone knows explosive ammo absolutely is.

    The one advantage the Bishop has over the other two is a 30% faster equip time when using a comfort grip. This lends itself to use as an ASP secondary for medics, but given the weapon will only be used as a long-range backup weapon the fraction-of-a-second difference will not make a significant impact.

    The Bishop is just flat out worse than the Obelisk and Dragoon. It kills slower than the Dragoon and lacks all the advantages of the Obelisk. (Namely zero projectile drop on a super-long-range gun with a heat mechanic.)

    We are all free to hold opinions but the Bishop is objectively worse for the vast majority of encounters.
    • Up x 2
  14. pnkdth

    So tired of the people using "victim complex" as a lazy tool to dismiss other people's arguments.

    Also, the Obelisk is the best of the batch. Not terribly surprising when you have a weapon with no bullet drop, infinite ammo, and a reliable damage profile. It is just a great mix for a mid/long range semi-automatic rifle. As cool as I think the penetration rounds are for the Bishop it should get something more, my choice would be 650m/s bullet velocity (putting on par with T3 BASRs).
    • Up x 4
  15. Peebuddy

    The dragoon doesn't even have a gimmick, the explosive ammo? I don't think a single person equiped that even as a joke. They just gave us a better battle rifle. Don't get me wrong it's amazing on my medic as a ASP secondary, the headshot then bodyshot kill (if they aren't using the 20% small arms mitigation armor) works great outside of the range of my assault rifle.

    OT, attackers can spawn inside the biolabs now. No more requirement of a sunderer outside the teliport room.
  16. typnct

    yes they are the best at holding points

    when i was talking about the 600 rpm weapon i was talking about the gladius(the attachment is total utter **** with no use whatsoever and should be removed so people wont waste their certs on its attachment)

    the prowler isnt a better mbt than the vanguard
    the prowler doesnt even have a ttk on the vanguard without advanced tactics and strategy, and all the strategy the vanguard needs is straight up being in your face, which is always the best and easiest solution(which developed a tactic to overcome this but, its not valid in big fights)

    FFS come to miller ill show you how well does the gatekeeper score, i really want you to come and play with the mbt/harraser with the gatekeeper and just see how much of a garbage weapon it is
    people who use it do it just for the aurx and then just ignore it as long as (2>1 = true)

    add me and come to miller, ill show you a tour of how fun it is to use the gatekeeper!, TYPNCTNK, i just hit asp 100 and i dont wanna touch that wep again, its idea is like taking a sniper rifle with a max damage up to 5 meters for 100 damage and no headshot kill potential and dropping to 25 at 6 meters still without headshot kill potential, tottal utter trash
    hell ill aurx the flare gun before illl aurx the gatekeeper

    even with twice the mag with the gatekeeper i would'nt take it for more than a joke weapon

    the nc maxes oh boi how i hate them
    when i see them camping a base and our maxes just pushing to get instagibbed in close range is just so much fun
    we actually need to push with inf first just so the nc maxes will get into reload and then push with the tr maxes
    the nc maxes can take out a tr/vs max in less than 5 sec, which is by all means better in close range(up to 20 meters)

    ive never seen a max being used further than that, unless it was a newbie that just got killed by c4 outside
    some players are just beasts with the nc maxes and can outperform any max i know and they make the hardest point to recap even with low pop
  17. Demigan

    Again, HOW?

    You said the TR's first 600RPM 167 weapon had a useless attachment, not the NC. Typo?

    In a straight up slugmatch the Vanguard wins but not by much. But if you look in the game the "straight up slugmatch" scenario rarely ever happens. The Prowler's speed, maneuverability, DPS per peek around a corner or in the open field and faster dialing in of range make it a superior option. While standing still and slugmatching inside a Vanguard takes barely any skill at all, using a Prowler with a bit of brains also takes barely any skill. You require less skill than operating infantry. And ofcourse that shows in the Prowler having great performance.

    In vehicle vs vehicle combat the Gatkeeper keeps up with the Enforcer for example. But as I mentioned in another post after the one you responded too, the Gatkeeper can benefit from a few small buffs. For example it's ridiculous that a full salvo of a Gatekeeper doesn't kill infantry. If you can manage to get every rocket to hit you should get the reward. I also mentioned that the inaccuracy could be solved now that the rockets aren't high-velocity "I'll hit you if you are in view" rockets with great constant DPS (solution I gave was giving it the miniature homing capabilities of the Siegebreaker on PTS). However yesterday I was under fire on the Crown from Prowlers about 600m away and there was little inaccuracy to be found in these weapons, making it nigh impossible to retaliate as you had to stay on the move to avoid getting hit allowing the Prowler's to basically have free shots at everything on the Crown. But suggestions to make the Gatekeeper feel better and not suddenly become OP again are completely welcome.

    Have fun with that.

    Because ramping up it's damage potential by cutting out one reload per salvo is not going to make it a massively powerful burst-weapon dealing 1600 damage in one go?

    I think your bias is showing. NC MAX's are no longer capable of going toe-to-toe with the other two MAX's at any range. Any range. Even in CQC perfect for the NC MAX the DPS of the NC MAX is the same but the NC MAX needs to reload faster has more chance shots will miss and will lose the DPS race because of that. Holding up the shield also does not make it OK because it takes a moment for the shield to be active and the moment you put it away before the animation is finished you can't fire anyway so the TR/VS get free shots while you are still putting it away. Meaning no matter what you do you'll always be behind in the DPS race unless you can somehow get constant headshots while the TR/VS aim for your body.

    You can see MAX's being used further than that constantly. In fact you are almost required because the average range of combat is far beyond that of an NC MAX even indoors. that is exactly why the NC MAX has to camp a doorway and can't just stand around inside and be effective.
  18. JibbaJabba

    I posit that you don't know what being tired is. :p

    Go play all 3 factions, like ASP out a few guys right? Play with the guns, listen to the players and leaders. You'll observe: EVERY faction thinks it's them. They all think they get the short end.

    I do not use "victim complex" to dismiss arguments. I use it to dismiss THE argument.

    The arguments being made (in this case primarly "oh poor blue") are really good arguments and bring up really good points. A declaration of "victim complex" such as mine can't dismiss such an argument. But this also applies to arguments from the other factions when it's their turn to vent. They make good ones too.

    At the end of the day, somebody, kinda mathematically, has to be on top or bottom. It ain't possible to get it perfect. Every one of the faction loyalists think it's their faction. One group of you is right (again, kinda mathematically) but none of you can be sure of it. That does not stop all of you from declaring it's your faction that's the worst.
  19. TR5L4Y3R


    doesn´t it have a default autofiremechanic unlike the other 2 were you need a attachment for the obelisk when hipfiring?
  20. TR5L4Y3R


    ummm so wait
    nc worst max
    nc worst mbt
    nc worst doku weapons
    nc performing the worst in alerts for months if not years ..
    worst starter lmg in the hand of beginners

    i agree with you that one faction may perform worse on some aspects compared to the other faction while being better at other aspects ... but this level of bad is just flat out rediciulous ..

    sure both TR and VS have their own black sheeps .. but compared to NC you can count these on one hand ..
    • Up x 1