construction

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by chamks, Jul 5, 2019.

  1. chamks

    hey friends... i want to talk about what is construction to me, the current state of construction, my feeling and thoughts about it and what can be done.
    lets start with what it to me. for an enthusiastic like myself, it take about 1-2 hours to build a good fortress, depends on how tough the location and if im getting harassed. i loved it when it was vital back when there was hives. during that time i spent tens of thousands certs to unlocked much of the gear with my VS and NC characters, countless hours building the perfect base in strategic choke points and i even took pictures of the bases i builded for a little... my PMB album.
    it brings joy to my life building a fortress of myself that can be a safe heaven for friendly vehicles or an obstacle for others. i enjoy it because i already experienced to full all the massacres of "who kills the most re-deployside", and it provide me a nice, logistic, other thing to do in this game. the maps are so big, the world is so beautiful that roaming around, fighting threads on the way or sneaking my way and building a base is something that i sometimes enjoy more than the regular things.

    in construction current state its no more essential to lock a continent, not a must-have fight for the opponent to continue for next facility, so why is it so easy to destroy?? i dont like the orbital strike. not only because its a no effort no brain fights ruiner cancer, but because it one shot an entire base. 1 little infiltrator with dart gun can destroy in a second a base which took me 1 and a half hours to build. that is sucks. also the constant need to refill the silo is a chore thats no fun.
    even a sunderer which takes 1 second to pull survives the orbital strike when deployed. it looks like the only reason construction so sucks right now is because of the long range utilities that it can hold like the OS, flail and router and it needs to countered. so the thing is a paper base. because of OS.

    here are for solutions to make construction fun and less sucky. right of the bat i have an idea for the silo's cortium leak mechanics: make a purchasable cortiom expensive that costs like 4000 cortium modul that, when deployed beside the silo, prevent cortium leak. that modul needs to be activated every half hour and if not activated - it stops warking and cortium will start leaking like now. its a good solution i think because people who build a momentary quick base which consist of a wall and a torrent to harass a distant base or a tank, or a memontary two walls at a choke point will not purchase or deploy this modul and their silo will decay quickly, while people who are building a base to all its mighty will spend 4k cortium for this modul, and it still need to be activated every half hour.
    as for the 1 shot base by infiltrator. seriously remove any damage to construction from orbital strike, make it totally immune to it. restore vulnerability if an orbital strike is builded in this base in a way to fight back.
    • Up x 1
  2. LordKrelas

    Construction no longer determining the loss or victory, Dominating the entire ability to control territory, by actively guarding only meters inside an PMB shoved into a cliff-side or world-edge..
    Is a positive thing.



    Engaging PMBs, as players is not an enthralling operation.
    It is nearly PvE, and is intentionally set-up to be a murderous affair for the attacker.
    Unless you have grand fun engaging a solid wall & automated gun-turrets with all-seeing-eyes..
    As opposed to any actual player being involved on the other side, instead it's often mostly monotone war against repair-guns , automated-repairs, and automated guns.

    Orbital Strikes were originally designed to attack PMBs with PMBs..
    They also one-shot entire lattice-Bases..

    And you want your PMBs, which can fire these weapons, to be completely immune to the siege weapon.
    While also having a module that removes all cort depletion outside of active cort drains?
    What exactly will be the solution to PMBs, that locked into the most ******** positions? Only zergs?
    The only damn thing that an PMB can not ignore, is the OST, and you want it rendered only a threat to the lattice?

    Even if it regains it, upon having an OSC, it will have the first shot on any other OSC that is built in range.


    Have you ever tried attacking a properly built-PMB, that isn't a solo-man affair?
    Now imagine, that the largest threat that can force an PMB to not sit inside their wall, is either a full-on zerg, or an OST.
    And with the OST being completely not a factor, until they can one-shot opposing Lattice-bases or other PMBs..
    Quite literally removes a Siege-weapon, from the original purpose of attacking PMBs.
    So, that PMBs, can be immune to the single weapon that forced them out of their walls, and can be only used by PMBs.
  3. Demigan

    The problem with construction is that you want to be rewarded for the time investment. But that time investment is so big that you have to get virtually impervious bases that let a handful of people stop entire Zergs. Additionally the fact that a fight might move away from your precious base and never return there for hours is a giant slap in the face.
    The HIVE system was also completely wacko as it allowed less than 10 people to do more for the continent capture than the 290+ allies on their continent. The system was also completely designed to discourage players from attacking PMB's as the builders were encouraged to build as far away from a good attack route as possible and build it with the intent of getting attacked as little as possible.

    The solution is therefore simple: Reduce the time required to build a base. Currently you have to gather cortium, build a silo, then for each single construction piece you have to move to the silo or ANT to buy it, move to where you want it, place it and return to the silo. This is a time consuming process and not super-accurate.
    So allow players to access the Silo and remote-control a Drone that cannot exit the Silo power-area. The drone has access to all construction plans the player can simply cycle through, allowing the player to deploy each building piece quickly and accurately from the air.
    Additionally the PMB system should offer ways to attack normal bases or offer equipment to assault PMB's. Not just artillery, but also siege equipment. Imagine players being able to buy a gravlift that stays alive for 3 minutes, allowing them to quickly get into an advantageous position or avoid a chokepoint. Or being able to buy a time-bomb that can destroy any construction piece after it goes off, but like Semtex it has a lot of warning signals allowing the enemies the time to find it and disarm it.

    PMB's can also get access to more roles in the game. Currently it's role is kind of difficult to gauge. So for example you could allow PMB's to become transport hubs, allowing players to teleport infantry and vehicles towards another PMB. This can be used tactically or just for players to get around without dumping their vehicle each time they want to relocate to another fight.
  4. iller

    No he's right... PMB's are "Paper" for the amount of time investment to actually Build it. It's Sad.

    But At the same time, getting really SICK and TIRED of those so called "allies" who build silos right on top of the best Cortium spawns just to fill and Ditch.... leaving behind a useless Silo in a BAD placement that prevents all other Cortium from spawning. In that sense, the Silo itself needs more ways to be killed Faster when it's not actually powering anything or is literally preventing new Cortium from spawning
    • Up x 2
  5. chamks

    demigan you presented the problem and solution better than me. reducing building time significantly is good start
  6. Scrundle

    I love the concept of the construction system but I think part of the problem is the idea of making bases; semi-permanent compounds to fight over and from. I don't think it ever should have been that, it should have been focused around making small singular helpful devices and modules that build quickly and die quickly if not defended, meant to be for use just behind the frontlines.
    There's no space in this game for player made bases, the dev made bases are all within handgun shooting range of eachother and that's barely an exaggeration, they dropped all the support and utility vehicles and ideas from PS1 BECAUSE the bases are so incredibly densely packed that there's no use for them. There's no use for aircraft that can transport tanks because the distance you want to transport them is less than their engagement range!

    So there never was a place to put real player made bases to begin with, even with the removal of a few bases.
    And the balance within construction is all sorts of crazy anyway, you've got modules that compete with eachother but one doesn't even compare (How often are you using reinforcement towers and sundies compared to just plopping out a spawn tube which has a greater catchment area AND less useage restrictions?) and base vs base combat is who built their OS first.
    There was a concept at one point that the PMB is the stage for the OS, which is used against real bases and the counter to the OS is another PMB with flails and glaives, except for the fact that the base which existed first, the one with the OS, will simply one-shot the base meant to counter it because its weapons are already online, have more range, have astronomically more firepower and have LESS useage restrictions on them.
    You've got modules which compete for the same useage but one is just outright better and no more expensive, you've got weapons systems that are countered by the things they're meant to counter, you've got nowhere sensible to actually put your base 90% of the time and you've got the absolutely game-changing router which you build at your warpgate and use anywhere with impunity.

    The entire system is a broken mess from concept to execution and that's not even MENTIONING hives, which was so incredibly absurd that I can't believe it wasn't a fever dream.

    I want construction, I dearly want it to work but what we have cannot work, the system is flawed and no amount of tweaking will fix it.
  7. Savadrin


    I'm on board with pretty much everything in here. I spent an awful lot of time building bases both before and during the HIVE experiment, and they had the potential to be a lot of fun, but weren't always. And defending the base until you incurred a squad/platoon gal(s) drop full of MAX and heavies was cool - you generally lost your base but at least it made the effort worthwhile.

    Personally, I would like the no-deploy zones to be shrunk to absolutely as close as possible to the physical edges of lattice bases.

    I can imagine the hilarious trolling which would happen if we were allowed to construct INSIDE lattice bases, and I think it would wear thin in about an hour, so no go on that - but actually putting player made stuff in close conjunction with lattice bases could at least make it useful in the meta. Both for attackers to get a foothold if they can manage it, or for defenders to do things like at least DELAY the inevitable armor spawn camping, or perhaps counter it long enough for folks to realize they can't stop a full-fledged armor zerg without their own vehicles.

    Back to the silo issue - I haven't successfully built in a long time but my understanding from the last time I did was that you could still build and leech from anyone's silo. I actually made an attempt the other day but the silo itself wasn't even down for 15 seconds before the lightning scavengers came through to destroy it, and the locking feature didn't even seem to be available.

    Back in the day if someone put down a dummy silo, you could still fill it, and use its contents for structures. You might just have to use your ANT to actually do the deployment rather than the silo. Can anyone say whether this is still the case?

    Finding the balance between the old bases which were really difficult to destroy and the new ones that fall apart in a strong wind ought not be THAT difficult. But all I see these days is 90% random silo + OS, or a routing spire that's got nothing to do with where the router is. I do see the occasional player base on the ground, but they're so easy to bypass the question becomes why bother?

    If they put a limit on Spire > Router (say, 3-400m or so) and allowed closer construction to lattice bases, it might be more in the spirit of the original design, in my mind anyway. It may also help with allowing routers to stay in the game, because as it is, they are both great and annoying. If you were able to send a couple of guys (or be them) to go remove the source of the router (because you know it's somewhere nearby) rather than only have the option to put 500 respawns into brute force killing it directly, wouldn't that make sense?

    As far as the OS goes... lol. The **** is on the map for literally everyone to see. The ring takes almost a decade to grow in size from where people place it to where it becomes useful. If you let someone OS your base and do nothing about it before it happens, I say you've earned the loss of your base. The OS can be destroyed, even if it takes a while. I can't get on board with ignoring the 20 minute fuse and then complaining when the bomb goes off in your living room.
    • Up x 1
  8. chamks


    i have fun engaging a player made base face to face, demolish the opponent base to be victorious as i enjoy the opponents engaging our base in a fare fight (no OS, no glaive pmc). you need to understand that not everybody in this game just want to kill kill kill others, auraxium medals, kpm. the PMB is not a function, there is no one dev base in the game that if you would build a PMB near it you will block the way to him. sure it can be a large obstacle sometimes, but never deny the latice base. in most PMB cases, 2 guys with 2 vehicles will destroy your base if you are the only one protecting it, as for your "zerg only" concern. but lets say its a well builded 5 man fortress: it will never block the next latice base. 5 guys who took the time and effort to build an irelevant pve base and defending it, should have their base not get 1 shot from one guy with a dart gun that calls the destructive power of god from the heaven. no, they should have their base well perform and taking significant amount of dmg before going down by at least 5 other guys from the opposite team.
    as for the OS. you said "it also one shot latice base", well no, it doesnt destroy the base of the defenders or the sunderer of the attackers. in fact if you will shoot it on an attacked base, you will probably make a favor to the attackers. nerf it. 99% will agree with that. so there you go for me argument.
    "What exactly will be the solution to PMBs, that locked into the most ******** positions? Only zergs?". if its a PMB that builded beside some cliff so that the skywall touches the cliff like "helms deep" and it has like one way from attacks, that base is also far away from any latice base, in i-relevant place, between cliffes and its builder had it mind, so yeah, you should be two to one in order to take this base.
    oh, and this stupid OS is not the only thing that this base cannot ignore. i happen to discover in the last days with bases i builded that the big emp cannon, i think its called glaive pmc, completely shutting down the skywall for 20 seconds, just by its projectile explode on the skywall's wall, and since it continue shooting its completely shutting down the pmb top deffence.
    not only that, i builded a base on the cliff between eisa tech and sebero watchtower in essamir the other day. and two toxic annoying guys from the opposite team, who had their own PMB, really wanted my base down, even though i did nothing to them, and they had flail artillery. now the flail does explode on the skywall and the projectile doesnt penetrate, but the explosion it makes on the wall penetrate the skywall and destroying everything beneath it.
    but it wast enough to kill my base and i re-arranged some construction so that the flail's explosion wont destroy them. for one of them it wasnt enough and kept trying to destroy me base. so what that he did is: he took a valkiry, landed it beside my skywall modul, through the skywall shield, changed seat to the gunner and destroyed the skywall so that the flail will kill the base. but i was ready for this kind of aggression and i was already heavy and i killed his valkiry and him and builded new skywall every of the 4-5 times he did it until he gave up and the TR destroyed their base. but what if i wasnt in the base to deffend it? an aircraft is capable of going through the skywall is another disturbing ****** feature that needs to be changed toward the skywall.
    i really dont think that a distant PMB should be the determine factor for one's consideration if to build PMB. like "....mmmmm... i want to build a base.... hmmm... lets see... i want to build a base her-... oh shiittt cant. someone already builded a faraway base, but it has OS....."