Why are some players specifically, super fast? Pretty sure it isn't a cheat.

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Zizoubaba, Jun 30, 2019.

  1. Zizoubaba

    I used to think it was cheating, I discussed with many people, even made videos, but the consensus is that it isn't cheating (speed hack)

    Rather, a very fast PC or connection, or some bug in the game itself.

    If you don't know what I'm on about, don't worry, lots of people don't know what lots of people are on about, you'll be fine :)

    For the others, 3 questions :

    1. why does it happen

    2. how do I counter it

    3. how do I get this super mega fast speed?
    • Up x 4
  2. Demigan

    They used to proclaim it was a pure skill trick that only people with intricate knowledge and skill in the game could learn. I see they've moved on from that excuse and are now saying it's something with internet connection.

    Since this has been going on years and supposedly many people know about it but no one will actually tell you how or why it functions I think we can safely say "report the losers who need hacks and cheats to progress and move on"

    Unless magically after years that it's in the game someone now has a reproduceable method that would have lasted through every update in the game so far that they want to share...?
    • Up x 3
  3. Zizoubaba



    If it's a hack, I'd be willing to buy it and use it on a test account just to understand..

    And I know we're not supposed to discuss this, but I have no idea where to get one. Like, if you type "planetside 2 hacks" in google, there are a TON of results. I spent an hour once, just wanted to learn about them but in the end gave up..
  4. ObiVanuKenobi

    Adrenaline pump +10% sprint speed
    Survivalist implant +20% sprint speed for 3s when below 40% hp

    If you mean strafe speed then ADAD spam can increase it because of the way interpolation in this game works.
    Latency spikes can look like a burst of speed when the game catches up.
  5. Zizoubaba


    yeh, I meant all speed, not just sprint
  6. AlcyoneSerene

    It isn't implants and adrenaline pump, it's gotta be a network cheat plus some in-game behaviour to trigger it, part of which is probably running around erratically non-stop.

    Such players are perceived to instantly perform sequences of in-game actions that under normal circumstances aren't possible, such as instant weapon switches, instant health packs, teleportation, etc.

    I believe it is also part of how they get away tanking way more damage than is possible, up to and including seeing them at absolute zero health on the buggy death screen yet they survive, but you drop dead from what feels like a sniper shot to the head, and so do your team mates right next to you.

    Not denying there's super skilled players, everything plots as a bell curve for any population, but its the extra layer on top of that which leads to completely unfair gameplay, not because of getting outskilled, but because of getting cheated.

    A great majority of players also seem to not understand this certain something called Subtle Cheating, that doesn't involve shooting through walls or invincible ESFs and other blatant stuff. It is a defense mechanism to uphold a just-world hypothesis when the truth isn't pretty.

    The Devs here are entirely responsible to uphold a fair and competitive gameplay, since we as players can only sometimes observe and report the blatant stuff.
    • Up x 3
  7. Zizoubaba

    Could it be that on that in the same way as when you take cover behind a wall and then get hit by someone, you could see them as superfast while on their screen, everything is normal? (ie a synchronisation / latency thing?)

    The thing that strikes me is that it seems to always be specific players, and when I fight them 1 year later, they still doing it.
  8. Crash Bandicoot

    What I have also noticed with some streamers is that they barely get damaged and in similar situations I would have been killed(maybe in an instant) or taken a lot more damage.

    I was watching a certain streamer the other day and he was barely getting hit even when players were shooting point-blank. Sure he is a good player and I am not saying that he is cheating but it's not like that his responsiveness is so good to justify the fact that he is not being damaged. I could see the players shooting and there is no way they were missing so many shots all of them. Unloading half a mag cqc and barely getting hit with 2-3 shots consistently is not normal. It looks like a good amount of shots of the enemy don't matter and just disappear. I do feel like I should have killed a lot of guys myself but I end up getting killed in the end rather fast and many of my shots don't count somehow. Also, I have noticed that it may happen with some specific players.

    I guess it has to do with clientside and people who get a lot more fps and have very good connection have some kind of privilege even more so in PS2 than other games. It's just how the game works I think but I am not sure. Maybe the movement thing dirives from this kind of nature problem because I do feel like the way PS2 works makes the life of some players much easier than others.
    • Up x 4
  9. AlcyoneSerene

    Not sure what you mean with the scenario exactly.

    I've experienced the differences in tick rates in Overwatch, back in open beta and then when competitive was released. Dying behind cover was way worse, and other problems that I don't remember anymore. They increased it, and the overall game felt much more competitive and fair.

    Haven't played it in a while, but I still feel a difference between competitive mode and all other modes, perhaps because they prioritize resources so the competitive gameplay is as good as possible, which is fine, and it's no longer terrible as it used to be. Everyone complained about it back then, and with their resources, surprise, devs fixed it.

    Not comparing the two as they are drastically different games, but yes, certain players here are on fast forward without a doubt somehow. This isn't conjecture. Kill them, or shoot at them with a max, and witness the moment of their death, or when bullets impact them, their position instantly adjusts, sometimes by meters.

    The same thing happens when you receive damage from them, they 'materialize' or teleport the moment the first shot hits. You run around everywere, nobody there, then instantly someone appears (Note: there is no walking or fast running or anything, just APPEARS) as you receive that first damage.

    I know a lot of people say, high ping has many disadvantages but also some advantages if played right, etc. etc., I don't doubt that. But this speed thing isn't that, it's something else, and devs clearly have the statistics on each player's connection, etc., but somehow don't care that this happens or is allowed to happen.
  10. AlcyoneSerene

    Exactly.

    I do witness this same thing on very rare occasions too during what seem to be fair duels where I fully expect the other player to have damage me at the very least but somehow doesn't, and it does feel cheap. They couldn't have missed at that range in all those circumstances, and the engagement time even if they played with a trackpad. The difference here is this is very rare, while certain players have this happen constantly. How? Walk into a room with many good players with you all at once, shooting them, see every friendly drop dead including you, as they effectively teleport player to player in fast forward.
  11. Zizoubaba



    that they only "appear" fast from my point of view, just like from my point of view, I'm behind cover when I get hit.

    While in "reality" (so to speak) from their point of view, they aren't so fast, in the same way as, when I get hit behind the cover, from their point of view I'm not behind the cover..
  12. ObiVanuKenobi

    Found a video that might explain it. Also "instant" damage and lots of other stuff many people think is hax.



    Keeping all that in mind if a laggy player changes movement direction often he will appear to have higher speed on your client. It can also happen if you're lagging yourself, not the other guy.
    • Up x 1
  13. Demigan

    may I say WHAT THE ACTUAL FORNICATION.

    Yes I've seen players clip through stuff, but most of the problems he describes I've never seen to that excess. Just jumping off a building onto the floor just lands people on the floor with maybe a foot clipping through for a moment. On my screen you have to move very quickly, like from a jumppad onto the ground, to clip a player's legs through the floor. But to clip them entirely through the floor or a balcony the entire server has to lag. Most of the time even players falling from a Galaxy don't experience that kind of clipping.

    So to see how much problems people might have with this... Holy crap! Is this fixed? It's a video from 2017, has anyone met that much problems outside of the hamsters dying on the server?
  14. ObiVanuKenobi

    I believe those clips are picked as worst examples and aren't a regular occurence.
    Probably the server was having problems or he had high latency.
    I've seen it happen this bad only a couple times but i live very close to Cobalt so my latency is always low.
    • Up x 1
  15. iller

    No it's REAL, and one of the iterations is an Exploit that happened to me completely on Accident. I was moving at LEAST 2.25x faster than any other players around me. Silkens might know how it's done, It really seemed from my vantage point that he had something *like it* going on that he used to chase my MAX down on foot, very very quickly outside his own warpgate last week (Totally my Fault for even being there... I should have been back in the Hex we were actually contesting).

    Other than the Exploit... it's also just an OLD vulnerability in SOE's code that was consistent with nearly all of their engines and was well documented in DCUO b/c it was the most common "hack" used at the time. It essentially works as a "catch up" Compensation loophole by allowing the Client to report a glitched frame rate (after a period of Lagging behind) that they are not actually getting.

    ALL of SOE's games had this vulnerability where anyone with higher frame rate also got at least Twice the amount of packets in per Tick rate leading to higher Damage per Second. It was so bad in DC universe online --in part b/c it's a Combo-based Fighting game essentially -- that some people were tricking the otherwise Secure Servers into Interpolating their client having a 400 fps + tickrate so they could just spam off 2 or more attack animations in the same animation interval and hit you with multiple attacks at once. ...They've since fixed that for Projectiles as far as I'm aware but I bet the movement and hitbox warping vulnerabilities still are open for exploiting in anything that *ISN'T* tab-targeted

    I very occosionally see 1 or 2 Vanu doing it while sidestrafing when they don't even have the Sidewinder implant equipped. It should NOT be confused with "lag Wizarding" b/c at no point do they just stop moving entirely like a Switcher usually does. Their movement is always smooth and deliberate
    • Up x 3
  16. Zizoubaba



    One of the reasons I didn't really think it was cheating was that I noticed a lot of max rank players doing it, with IRL cash gear, camo etc.

    So maybe it's a kind of "safe" cheat where there is no risk of getting caught and banned for it?
  17. Campagne

    Well a lot of max rank players get there with subtle cheats and the hitbox banwave cleared out a good many players decked out in cosmetics.

    I don't think it's totally fair to say these players can't or don't cheat for fear of their purchases.
    • Up x 4
  18. iller

    Pretty much any kind of Packet Manipulation as long as it's not considered Maliciously "attacking" the Server, is usually safe because it's really hard to prove if it was even intentional or not without putting some kind of invasive back door on the client's computer that would ALSO catch low profile skripts designed to Bypass the current anticheat Kernal. And you have to show more than just "capacity" in these matters as for instance; I do not deserve a ban just b/c the exploit happened to me one time (and may happen again). It's the same thing as the Invulnerability Glitch that was going on years ago. Proving an Aimbot or teleport hack is easy enough with Video. Proving actual packet manip is way more difficult and would maybe require some kind of advanced pattern recognition AI to do it in the Netcode itself

    That's really a matter that I believe is the responsibility of the Game DESIGNERS to try and remove the niche mechanics and incentives that lead to wider abuse of those areas. And it takes special kinds of designers with a higher degree of technical expertise to understand all of the possibilities that exist there. Some studios have designers like that who actually wrote cheats at some point and understand which "doors" you should NEVER leave open to exclusively client side negotiation. But SOE has rarely ever made it a point to do so, they've always put "Hype Men" in those roles instead. Or people who just have to "talk well" on Video or at meetings. And that's something that clearly hasn't changed under the handoff to DBG either
    • Up x 3
  19. JibbaJabba

    Here's what I know about it...

    You know about implants of course. I'll mention athlete nuances in a sec, but otherwise I assume you do NOT mean speed from implants or say adrenaline pump.

    Consider a enemy target moving on a number line from 1 to 10.
    They start at position 5.
    They run "negative" towards position 1....
    They pass position 4, 3... sending network packets along they way.
    Then suddenly change directions right as they get to 3 and start running back the other way....
    4, 5, 6....
    BUT. Slow network or packet loss...
    Last message the server got was that the player was at position 3 and moving negative.
    The next packet has not arrived yet, so some prediction comes into play. The server (and your client) render them at position 2.
    Now the player actually ran from postion 3 up to position 6.
    But because of the network you see them as running from postion 2 to postion 6.
    Ain't no way around it. Somehow the player has to speed up to make this.
    It's fake. The motion is not real. No hacks, no cheating, just suddenly a player moving super fast.

    So that's what is happening ultimately.

    For some players (like myself) it just doesn't happen much. Network is too tight. For others, OMG they can rubber band super hardcore. It's most easily spotted when someone is falling from a Galaxy. For me, I'll sink up to my waist on other peoples screens then pop up to the surface. For some they'll sink 20m under the floor before popping back up. These are the people that are gonna rubber band and move fast.

    How can you take advantage of it? If you want cheats you can go F yourself, but here is how you do it without cheating..

    You must maximize your speed at all times to maintain a distance between where you are and where the network/server/enemies see you. If the server/enemies have an old location for you but it happens to be overlapped with your current location then you've accomplished nothing.

    The #1 thing that helps with this is to understand that ASDW motion (strafing, forward, back) has an acceleration. While turning does not.
    If I want to go forward and left, I can hit W then A. OR I can hold W and whip 90 degrees left.
    One is slow...so slow that the network WILL stay caught up.
    The other is fast....so fast that the network WILL fall behind and produce a gap between your perceived position and actual position.
    When you peek a corner, do not do so while ADS. Hipfire. If it's an ADS worthy target, ADS as your SECOND peak starts.
    When you unpeek a corner, do not do so with strafing, instead turn 90 degrees and sprint.

    When you need to dodge, you're gonna do what's called the Therum Shuffle (named after the guy...he's amazing).
    The basic shuffle:
    Start facing target.
    Hold W and Sprint
    Turn 90 left AND press A key.
    Sprint in this direction for about 2m.
    Turn 180 right AND press D key.
    Sprint this direction for about 2m.
    180 Left, A key.

    Some nuances:
    The distance you go is important. Most folks doing this do it too quickly.
    You should be zig zagging about the full width of a door... just outside of doorframe to just outside of door frame.
    Vary the A & D keys. press them on some zigzags but not others.
    Have a friend watch you. If done perfectly you'll also break your animations in that your current motion will not be reflected by your player movement or direction. It only lasts a moment, but the right shuffle can make it almost continuous.

    Things that can kill it:
    Overshield
    Jumping (slow, predictable....only use when medkitting)
    Medkits (slows you...unless airborn for the duration of the proc... see jumping above)
    Toggle crouching ("flicker" crouching is ok)


    Edit: forgot to mention the athlete nuance. Athlete monkeys with acceleration. I a player using Turn + W instead of A and D to move, it's going to make them faster still. It's a good tool if you're trying to maximize your shuffle.
  20. iller

    That is not at all what we are talking about, but nice try as usual for being an Auto-Apologist to the idea that every single Exploit-Accusation and Hacksusation is always from bads who just need to **** and Lrn2Play
    • Up x 1