[Vehicle] What new gimmick for the Vanguard?

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Demigan, Jul 1, 2019.

  1. Demigan

    So I just checked the PTS and I saw the following:

    Magrider:
    Afterburner is auto-granted and doesn't take a slot, allowing you to equip fire suppression simultaneously. A pretty good boost.
    Additionally they get a new defense slot item to pick from which allows the Magburner to go diagonally forwards as well as straight forwards, giving a bit more control over the afterburner.

    Prowler:
    Aside from the Barrage recharging from the moment you activate it rather than when it finishes like the Vanguard Shield does, the Prowler gets access to Rampart Nanite Mesh. When deployed the Prowler will generate a shield that starts generating up to 1000 additional health for the vehicle after 10 seconds. If the shield is depleted it'll start regenerating after 10 seconds. If the shield still has a bit of health left it'll start regenerating after 4 seconds.

    Vanguard:
    *crickets*.

    So... What is the Vanguard going to get? Or are the devs going to screw the NC more openly than they already do with the latest NC Doku weapons being blatantly inferior than their counterparts and just remove the Vanguard shield in it's entirety for example?
    • Up x 1
  2. pnkdth

    Other than the Charger having a pretty meh mechanic other two was pretty well received (the Gladius in particular)? What's up with the defeatist attitude? It is the PTS which could very well mean they're not terribly sure about these two.

    Speaking of the Charger, having a charge up could work pretty damn well with the Vanguard, i.e. the main cannon starts off charged dealing X amount of damage and recharge after Y amount of seconds. Certainly would be "on brand" so to speak.
  3. Scrundle

    Surely the Vanguard doesn't need anything else, it's already the number 1 vehicle for all purposes in the game! Regularly you'll see the vanguard go 100+ VKD, and that's all at once!
    I know that personally whenever I log on all I can see is Vanguards covering the ground from warpgate to warpgate.
    Something really has to be done about these damn NC and their overprowlered gear. Hopefully we can work on removing everything someone on reddit has complained about at some point, in the pursuit of balance.

    It's also really nice to see the prowler finally getting some gear which really benefits its primary role; sitting on a hill bombarding a doorway, nice to see that finally getting love.

    Anyway, remember to like and subscribe this channel for more TR VS buffs.
  4. LaughingDead

    Defeatist? This is the expected attitude. Maxes were nerfed into obvlivion, still no word about that or equalizing the playing field, the promise is still a lower tier gun from VS or TR, the bishop's only gimmick requires 2 people to stand in a straight line (which is ******** to do in any sense) and the charger is garbage even after it's "buff". The only thing we've actually gotten so far that isn't completely dwarfed by everything else is the gladius and even then that's an arguable one because it's release was dwarfed by canis ********, hell our trait bullets are even worse, a meh high velocity ammo for a portion of the magazine.
    • Up x 2
  5. AllRoundGoodGuy

    More often then not it's 2 allies standing in a line......
    • Up x 3
  6. Demigan

    Because of this:
    The new battle rifles are all extremely powerful. They put current battle rifles and semi-auto snipers to shame as these new designs are more accurate, less troubled by damage degradation and easier to handle on CQC combat.
    But when it comes to attachments the TR and VS versions actually change the way the weapons are played or are straight upgrades, like the VS obelisks ability to equip an attachment that makes it's hipfire component much more viable, allowing the player to be more accurate at less of a penalty when forced to hipfore. The NC attachments do not have this, and only offer niche capabilities like the ability to deal 16 more damage in 10m distance but with greatly increased recoil. Or the ability to fire through enemies but at 10% less slower fire rate.

    The Carbines have the same problems. While the attachments of the TR and VS really change the way you play in a non-detrimental or downright advantageous way, the NC version is simply a weak derivative. The first 7 bullets deal more damage? Ok well great but you have to reload to get that advantage back. In the meantime the TR version only needs to let go of the trigger for 1/100th of a second to boost it's RPM back to the max. And the attachment is even more hilarious. The NC Charger has a low ammo count that you can improve by adding a larger magazine. But that means you can shoot more bullets of a terrible DPS and accuracy in one go AND you get a longer reload, meaning the attachment forces you to use LESS of the maximum charged bullets and reduces the want to reload and get those bullets charged again
    Add insult to injury by displaying the maximum stats of the Charger making it look better than it actually is while the TR version shows its minimum stats so that players have a better idea what to expect.

    Ofcourse after that we can talk about the nerf to the Vanguard shield. The NC MAX AI capabilities being nerfed on just about all fronts (damage, pellets, reload, refire, damage degradation, attachments), how its been proven time and again that high damage low ROF weapons require more skill to equal that of the other weapons, how NC has lost the most alerts period despite being equally skilled with every NS and carbon-copy weapon and we can definitively say that the NC is the worst treated faction.

    Someone will come in and say "but look at all the nerfs <faction> got!". A justified nerf is no reason to cry. Things like PPA, the original Saron, the Gatekeeper etc were absolutely horrifyingly OP.
    • Up x 2
  7. pnkdth


    I am not a huge fan of the battle rifles so I can't comment much on them and I also mentioned the Charger as being meh.

    I'd argue the reason the NC MAX got so heavily nerfed was due to total denial on NC's part. Despite clearly out-performing every other faction there was always an excuse. A particular favourite of mine was that after the nerf slugs were apparently super cool and fine, even over-powered for some, yet every single solitary time I suggested a slug setup (pre-nerf) I was hit with a barrage of the predictable "SLUGS ARE RNG AND USELESS!!!"

    As for individual skill, I do not think skill has ever been the problem, but rather than every single solitary new player when joining this game asking for team play/organised outfits were told to go TR/VS. Even when I joined back in 2012 the NC brand was yeee-haw and space hillbillies sporting stats like the highest HPM (honks per minute). The fact PS2 has two factions which globally have been very close in terms of alert wins is, I'd argue, a pretty impressive achievement on DGBs behalf. Usually MMO PvP games tend to snowball hard into having one faction which destroys everything and the others either enjoy their underdog status or teams up.

    The total alerts before PS2alert stopped working was VS 37%, TR 34.8%, and NC 25.9%. Not exactly a huge gaping maw between the factions.

    As for the Gatekeeper, it was the 1st true sustained fire weapon. The PPA was unique as well (and taught them a valuable lesson on the effects of AoE weapons). They were nerfed, so what's your point here?

    So rather than dwell on the past, what mechanics would you like to see for the Vanguard?
  8. Demigan

    Although I disagree with some things this is what we should gocus on.

    I think that since the VS and TR have a permanent ability that doesnt take a slot (TR anchor VS afterburner) we should look into that type of change as well.

    Even though I think the NC shield isnt OP, the fact that so many people have a problem with it means it needs to change. Keyword "change" and not necessarily "nerf". So for starters I would suggest making the NC shield an auto-granted feature like afterburner and Anchor, but instead of an activateable ability it replaces the extra health of the Vanguard. So standard the Vanguard would get 5000 health and 1000 shield that regenerates.

    Then for an ability we can have a variety of things. Like an ability that temporarily overcharges the gauss canon of the Vanguard, giving it increased muzzle velocity, a small increase in damage and the ability to pierce tanks and infantry. To prevent problems AOE damage is only applied at the first hit and not subsequent hits. This ability then allows you to simply improve ranged shots, deal some extra damage or when the situation arises allows you to try and kill repair crews or hit fleeing vehicles that hide behind enemy vehicles (or as is the NC way, blow through an ally).
    As an alternative this ability could be auto-granted. The Vanguard can fire a round normally or charge it up to increase velocity, damage and allow it to penetrate through infantry and vehicles.

    Another option is to go more for the "we slapped this together and hoped it to work" scene by temporarily changing the shells into gun launched missiles (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_gun-launched_missiles). Basically turning the shells temporarily into a type of Hornet Missiles.

    The NC were originally the miners and such, the NC MAX was the first of it's kind and in the lore created by slapping armor on a mining exoskeleton. In that vein you could add altered arc-welding equipment that produces an Arc Flash (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arc_flash). Lore-wise the Vanguard would have capacitors that electrify the hull and zap nearby enemy infantry, tanks and equipment like mines and explosives. When active the ability deals damage every half second or so to nearby enemies. Explosives are also set off at a distance that reduces damage but does not prevent damage.

    More idea's:
    The Prowler's base chassis is unique in it's high speed and medium maneuverability. The Magrider is unique in its movement options and high maneuverability. The Vanguard has no real advantage over either on the movement front. We could give it a reversible gear, allowing the Vanguard to back up just as fast as it can move forwards.

    The Vanguard is also supposed to be the heaviest tank in the game, so let it deal more damage to enemy vehicles when ramming. Also give it a stronger engine to push vehicles out of the way more easily. It would be nice if you could for example push an enemy Sunderer or MBT out of the way if they block your path.

    An ability that fires a projectile that causes a concussive effect on a vehicle you hit, making it slower in driving and aiming for a short while.

    An auto-granted ability that allows you to switch ammo from current ammo to a canister shot, basically your shell is ripped to pieces in the barrel and let loose as a shotgun pattern like the AH. The original shell's abilities still apply, so HE for example has the largest AOE for each individual pellet while AP has the highest velocity.

    Give the Vanguard its artillery ability:
    https://images.app.goo.gl/69Qupy1YMJ4gKj5CA
    Allowing the Vanguard to deploy, then allow the player to buy a target designator from the back and fire it like the current Flail.

    Give the Vanguard (and all MBT's and the Lightning for that matter, this should be accessible to all) the ability to select a co-ax gun like in the brutal one's seen in the above picture or a top-mounted remote gun that the driver can switch to and have it mostly function as a skillful AA gun so that vehicles arent completely helpless when engaged by aircraft.

    The picture also mentions close-in airburst munitions. Basically the smokescreen ability but instead of grenades that trail smoke behind the tank it just launches a bunch of miniature grenades around the tank that deal AOE damage to infantry and perhaps tanks and aircraft.
    • Up x 2
  9. AllRoundGoodGuy

    Where have I heard that before I wonder......
  10. Campagne

    So what you're telling me is the Prowler on PTS can now not only out-DPS a Vanguard, but can also have the same HP pool and a non-resist shield? What, does it cover the *** of the tank too? Now that's what I call "balanced." :rolleyes:

    What needs to be done is remove the shield from the prowler and stick it onto the Vanguard as the innate passive ability in the form you've suggested before: 1000 HP shield covering the whole tank like an infantry shield, regenerating over time after ten seconds.

    I'd go on about why the Gladius is complete ****, why the Promise is an awful and counter-intuitive piece of junk, why the Bishop is now the worst of the three BRs instead of the close-second worst, why the Charger sucks for reasons not yet mentioned here, and how much the MGR-A1 "Prawn" (or equally stupid name) will undoubtedly suck massively, why a 10% alert disparity is a massive issue, and how obviously bull**** it is that only the TR & VS are experienced and organized players, but this thread is already losing focus.

    Let's not be distracted from a couple large buffs to the two better MBTs, while the bottom-tier under-performer continues to get nothing.
    • Up x 3
  11. Savadrin

  12. Demigan

    Because you seem to be hardline against improving anything non-TR and are coming up with ludicrous ways to somehow justify yourself, in this case by making it seem like I want the Vanguard to automatically kill everything on-sight, I'm going to do the kiddies version for you!

    Hello little troll! How are you doing? Those squiggly lines on your screen is what we call "writing" and we use it to create things we call "words". Now what these words were suggesting is not to create a Slug-based Spitfire for Vanguards, but a variety of options that could be added to the Vanguard. It could be one addition, or a few, but not all of them at the same time.

    Many of the idea's written with those words should be cheered on by you. Such as the removal of the current Vanguard shield and having it integrated as a self-regenerating part of the Vanguard healthpool, replacing the extra health it gets now.

    Or simple idea's like giving it a unique way to move, in this case backing up. Are you going to say that the simple act of backing up faster than anyone else is going to be OP?
    Or the ability to deal a bit more damage when ramming, or have a stronger engine, are those OP? Is having a new ability to replace the old shield, an ability that takes from the TR Barrage ability but substitutes different stats to be improved, is that going to unbalance everything?


    If you really think that then you shouldnt be posting here, you should be seeing a good psychiatrist to help you find the meds you need against your hallucinations.
  13. DemonicTreerat

    Hopeful it will be something actually useful. Like directional armor that reduces damage by a flat amount (say 250 scaling up to 450) from the front that is applied after the shield is up. That way the Vanguard's shield isn't just a way to delay the inevitable (assuming a Prowler doens't just Barrge through it) but something that makes you want to get out of the way of a group of charging Vanguards.

    Will it happen? Not as long as Wrel the ******** with a tiny ***** is in charge. Guy is hell bent on gutting the NC because he can't fight us without a crutch and he's too narcissistic to accept getting his *** kicked due to his inability focus on more than his next kill.
  14. pnkdth


    I really like these ideas together, making it a juggernaught 'face to face' and the added reverse power would make it uniquely mobile (would help in rough terrain as well). So VS get the side to side, TR speed, and NC torque. With the shield it'll make it a real brawler too.

    We might have disagreements (and probably will keep having them!) but in the end I just want something fun (AND useful) for all the factions. Obnoxiously optimistic as I know I can be, heh.
    • Up x 2
  15. iller

    Weren't we supposed to get a special hypersonic Coil-gun Cannon?
  16. Demigan

    • Up x 3
  17. pnkdth

    Haven't kept up to date on PTS but isn't the Paladin a hard hitting, high precision, with a staggering projectile velocity of around 500m/s AV weapon? Sounds like a souped up version of the old Saron, even has the same fire delay.
  18. Savadrin



    It's a shame that you can't even take a tongue in cheek joke about your MAX whining to go along with all of your other whining about the poor NC. My psychiatrist said you're off the charts when it comes to getting triggered and being oversensitive, and I agree.
  19. Liewec123

    its all part of the plan so they'll finally be ready to add an "MBTs are free" event
    once maggy and prowler are multitudes better than vanguard,
    because NC killed wrels parents in some crazy comic book style, and he wants revenge.
    he's taken your max and now he's coming for your MBT.
    • Up x 4
  20. DemonicTreerat

    They took that and gave it to the VS as the Auroa.