[Vehicle] Why were A2A tomcats "Removed from Play"?

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by iller, Jun 20, 2019.

  1. F20000GL


    lock-ons started with the game from the very begining it was a big balancing stone

    this is what is already happening ... and you are telling people to leave

    i saw it literally happening over 2 pilots a squad of 6 players logged off while the server was almost empty because the 2 pilots killing them on the ground and there is no one in the whole team is able to shot them down ...they tried lock on from the ground and it didn't help much and they tried max and cound't keep up with their movement and they tried to take ESF to the air and they got killed many times ... the whole squad logged off out of frustration



    why do you think if players left the game daybreak will keep the servers online? if the game doesn't make money the servers will be down

    if the servers closed your skills doesn't mean anything.... if you are the best pilot in PS2 you won't be able to log into the game and fly .....and in your mind the best way is to tell people to leave the game ?
    • Up x 1
  2. adamts01

    As much as I hate lock-ons, they did at least chase a few of these comical skynights away from the game.

    When it's all said and done, a game with no match maker needs to provide a way for everyone to take part. Tomcats are an abomination that went too far. Coyotes are just as bad, as they empower vets as much as they do noobs. It's sad that our devs are so incompetent at understanding the air game. But, they at least see that medium-skill weapons need to exist, they just implemented their ideas of those weapons terribly.
    • Up x 1
  3. Zanaffar



    Wow at least we got to hear your arguments. We know you somehow live in your imaginary world where you still think nc maxes werent OP etc. As i said i am all up to give me your proposed sollutions. Give me that onmi afterburner and another ****. I will just rekt on new players even more. Somehow in your medicore players brain you still thinks it only makes bad players better and not vice versa. But i red your bs on forums long enough to know your points are somehow invalid cuz you dont have the skill nor experience to back up your delusions.
    Only if you were this good in game than of forums right? Dunno if you wanna become dev spilling this bs here but thank god dbg is left with enough reason to ignore your crap here.
    So play your forumside when you are unable to prove that you are somehow competent in actual game.
    As i said you are like redneck shouting on someone how to do his job better while having absolutly no idea what are you talking about.
  4. FateJH

    That's a good thing. You need a weapon that brings up the low to feel like they can challenge the greatest of the trade while lowering the greatest thus that they can realize the limitation of their artform. Otherwise, you just have two groups staring blankly at each other and never coming to terms.
  5. IcEzEbRa

    To the original question about Tomcats, I think that they were rightfuly nerfed because they scale badly. They've tried a lot of things to balance em on ESF's, first they were fire n forget, then keep lock, now back to fire n forget but 2 clicks, and damage and resistance changes, now reload speed, etc. And it's not just esf v esf, but esf v all other air vehicles that don't have an equivalent lock-on weapon....but all other weapons on esf, nose or wing, can do some damage to anything, even coyotes...but Cats are air only, and if they are at all effective for one esf against air, then they scale badly op in the air, just does, and one too many reasons/tools for the gank squads in the air. I don't honestly think they can be balanced. That's a reason for the Wyrm, back to the "does some damage to everything", {too} good against big air {and now Libs face Cats and Worms}, but you actually have to aim with a damage falloff weapon. Probly should have just replaced Tomcats w/equally certed worms, but that wasn't gonna happen, and op woulda screamed anyway.

    I see new esf pilots every nite I play, locking on to me in esf w/cats. Having already spent their hard earned certs, but not realizing they are simply ineffective against reasonably skilled esf. And that's one way you know there's a new pilot on your tail, no nose gun to start or ever, no a$$ gank, just the lock warning....and I feel kinda badly, not because I just destroy em, which I usually don't...but because they spent certs and had expectations that can never be met. But who wouldn't think as a newer player that A2A lock-on missiles shouldn't be good/great for A2A on esf. I just hate to see anyone wasting their certs on tomcats, they have always been a problem.
  6. Demigan

    Hold on, if you look at my stats you can see that I score above average on most stats that count. You also already erroneously said I hadnt auraxed some weapons because apparently you dont realize simple things like how vehicle kills are counted towards auraxium.

    Or perhaps the fact that if you simply multiplied my stats with 10 I get about the same amount of time played and about the same amount of infantry and vehicle kills as you. Ofcourse we have to assume that in that time I get some extra skill. which considering that after learning the RM I refused to start using that filth after recognizing the unfairness of its use is a testament to how good I am at other maneuvers. As pilot you know very well how hover fighting and RM are dominant because how much more power they give for the skill gained, so to keep up with that without using RM or HF means to have some serious skills in those other combat techniques. That would also incidentally mean that if my changes would be implemented I would probably spank you like the little kid you've been behaving like in the air.

    Also you are using the lies and insults to get to your points. Like the vaguaries of "but me knows how you operate so you MUST be wrong", rather than actually, you know, pointing out why I would be wrong?

    And please dont regurgitate the classic "but it's OBVIOUS thst you are wrong because <choice between insulting me or a vague whataboutism that has nothing to do with the actual subject>. If it's so easy to see I'm wrong it's also easy to prove me wrong, since you've quite literally missed every opportunity to actually prove your point and have proven to miss extremely simple knowledges such as how data is recorded.


    And lastly one more try at subtlety, do you know what the term "conflict of interest" means and how it could apply to you in this situation?
  7. adamts01

    There was nothing more powerful than someone good with a nose gun. Those guys didn't need a straight up dps boost.

    A better solution would be to add that weapon, but disable the ability to reload while a weapon isn't selected.

    Another idea is to add a nose gun with a tiny bit of tracking. Give it 1/3 the dps, and 1/3 the damage per magazine. This way players build the skills to step up to a real gun, while letting them deal some damage instead of none.

    Adding the same amount of power to average players as top players accomplishes nothing. It's important to reward skill, but in a game with zero match making, the performance gap needs to be slightly reduced. Every single other aspect of thos game does a pretty good job of this.
  8. F20000GL

    i see all arugments about flying from the people who know how to fly is around building the new pilots skills to hoverdueling
    since 2016 hoverdueling is the only way to dogfight how many players stick around and build their skills?
    not many
    the game was bleeding players
    are we all going to be taling about if you want to fly in this game you must spend weeks in training and weeks to be farmed by veterens...or we can making something simple allow a larger group of people to fly?

    i said it before and i say it again most of this game players are young boys busy with their schools or young men have work or college ....asking this people are school or college or work which all at least half of their day to come into the game and go in training VR rather than playing the game or to be the farmming cattle for the veteren players mean you are asking them to leave

    they leave = no one play = no memeber ship = no income --> game servers will be closed

    if the servers are closed mean your skills doesn't mean anything anymore
  9. Zanaffar


    Lol you scoring above average? Lmao you really must be lunatic or what.

    Lets see since you love stats sooo much proving your bs.

    Your stats: https://imgur.com/a/ORtSOzL , https://imgur.com/ARq3x3b

    Mine stats: https://imgur.com/a/a4XHfFl , https://imgur.com/a/h1OE8lj

    Keep on dreaming that you are somehow competent pilot knowing something about air game only because you closed your eyes once and had a strange dream with you flying and top gun soundtrack playing in the background.
  10. Demigan

    So aside from you being a toxic person once again and apparently not understanding the stats I'm going to throw subtletly out of the window.

    A Conflict of Interest is a situation in which a person is in a position to derive personal benefit from actions or decisions they make.
    This will usually end up in this person using this power to try and further his goals.

    Now you are a pilot who benefits from the current air-game. It gives you power, and depowers players who want to join the air-game.
    You have reasons to keep the air-game in your favor, keeping newer players to the air-game much weaker than they should be and disallowing skills from other games with aircraft to be used in PS2 effectively. So you are... In a conflict of interest.

    Contrast that to me for example. I do not try to further my own goals, but those of the lionshare of the players. I do this by introducing elements into the air-game that are present in most other games, and where there is a much smaller divide between veterans and newbies allowing more people to join and enjoy the air-game. This not only shows that your "but it would make me even better" arguments are bullcrap, but that I am right and you are lying to keep your advantage.

    TL: DR,
    The more you play the air-game, the less we should listen to your advice as it makes you biased to keep you in power rather than make the game fair and enjoyable.
  11. Zanaffar


    You really like to hear only to yourself right? You are like a parrot repeating same things again.

    I am a pilot which adapted to every air game meta since i fly for a quite long time. I alredy said i would welcome more people in air but not for cost of giving them noskill weapons. If they dont wanna learn and rant only on forums than they are to blame not the game they are trying to play.

    I told you like 3 times that i am up to your ideas. I have no problem implementing them to game. I just told you what end result will be. But hey ignore that again and talk bs more. If they cant even pull basic reverse maneuver which is like hold brake, pitch down and in some point of turn smash afterburners i am sure they will profit from more advanced omni burner.

    But hey i am sure with your vastly air game experience you surely know better than me. I think this sums up your air experience pretty well https://9gag.com/gag/arG7DZB (you are the blonde one). I am sure that black haired one benefit from that and dont want anyone to fight her anymore by your logic.
  12. TR5L4Y3R



    except the reverse manuver is not basic it is a advanced manuever in itself that is tricky to execute and the biggest problem is that with the stupid hovercombat this game has it´s a neccesity to learn .. it´s not optional ...
    it´s even more difficult to learn with the inability to rebound certain movement to keys or have sensitivysettings for keypresses ...


    "You really like to hear only to yourself right? You are like a parrot repeating same things again."

    *looks at above post* ..... uhu ... yea ... does not totaly fall on yourself but whatever


    ... annnnd that´s the absolutely the only the bullcrap that comes out from you ... that´s it ...
    • Up x 1
  13. Demigan

    So the guy who's made more posts in this thread than me and who's entire contribution to this thread can be summed up with "I have played more thus everyone else's arguments are invalid" is claiming that I like to hear only myself and that I am repeating myself? Do I have to teach you the word "hypocrite" as well? Since you say you've followed my posts you should have learned that lessen a few dozen times already as I've taught it to others. I hope you aren't confusing with learning the word hypocrite with encouragement to actually perform hypocracy?

    The only repetition I've made is where you either ignored it or lied completely, which is admittedly almost everything I've said so far but that's hardly my fault for trying to correct and teach you now is it?

    This is a copout argument. You first lie that people want noskill weapons, we already have those in the current deterrent weapons and they suck balls and most people hate them regardless of being on the using or receiving end. Also considering that several intermediate skill weapons have already been proposed we can only conclude that what you are doing here is called "fabricating an argument". Try to work out what that means before you post please.

    No what you have told everyone is "It would benefit me soooo much so you shouldn't do it". But this ignores what we call "reality". You already said that you've adopted to "every air game meta since I fly for quite a long time". But if you did you should have noticed that the idea's I put forth are based on other aircraft-capable games where the gameplay is both more fair and more enjoyable for both the newbs and the veterans. Rather than just the veterans like in PS2. So your argument of "it will only benefit me" is completely wrong and a lie to protect the status-quo. That thing I called you out about called "Conflict of Interest"?

    Also you pointed out that you would be able to fly circles around bases with ease, which would be a great and awesome reason to start adding those skillful G2A weapons I proposed right? For a more fair and equal G2A vs A2G balance? But oh noes, everything I say is wrong because that is what you gather without any actual evidence, logic or arguments for your case.

    And thank you once again for showing you are a toxic person who should only be listened to so that we know what not to do.

    Also since you question my logic, could you actually provide some logic of your own? So far you've only claimed stuff like "oh noes I would benefit from this" but provided no logic why this is a bad thing considering that newbs would also benefit.
    • Up x 1
  14. adamts01

    Call the kettle black much?

    You're the reason we have ****** Tomcats and Coyotes.

    I have an absolute disdain for missiles. I hate them. Absolutely hate them. But I at least realized that there had to be weapons with training wheels, just like spray and pray infantry guns and Basilisks on tanks. The reason our noob weapons are as bad as they is entirely because the air community had the hive mind of get good or go home. Without the community working together to create balanced weapons, we were left with ground-only devs and players coming up with all the solutions. And here we are. Zero compromise from skynights is why we're in such a mess.
    • Up x 1
  15. Silkensmooth

    Actually zan has owned all of you with his spot on arguments.

    Making the game EZ mode does nothing for player retention.

    It makes vets not want to play, because all of the time they spent practicing to be good is wasted.

    It makes the gameplay worthless because there is no need to improve. Without the challenge and reward of getting better there is no replay value.
  16. Silkensmooth

    Just practice and get good. Like Zan i didnt start off good. I was terrible. I watched videos and thought they were made by devs because the pilots were using third person view and i didnt know i could do that too.

    I had mouse accel on.

    I died over and over without getting a kill.

    Thats what made it fun. When i finally got my first solo kill it was an amazing feeling.

    It's great to have things in the game that are very hard.

    There are lots of very easy things to do in this game. Like using flak. Or max suits. Or lock on launchers.

    Certainly there should be room for things that are hard.

    If everything is easy, the game quickly becomes very boring, and people like me who have had a membership for 6 years would have stopped playing long ago.
  17. Silkensmooth

    No. New players will come and get farmed by Sunderers with rangers, Ants with rangers, Harassers with rangers, Skyguards, Flak maxes, and lock on launchers. And the new meta, one man MBT's with rangers.

    But mainly new players are here to play infantry anyway.
  18. Silkensmooth

    Lock-ons don't miss libs.
  19. adamts01

    I did practice, and I did get good. Arguing for some easier to use weapons is not in my favor.

    And no one is saying A2A should be easy mode. The argument is to let more players have fun taking part in it. Is infantry easy mode because the minigun and Lasher exist? No. Did vets leave because there's a simple rifle that let's you hold down a trigger and get some kills? No. Vets chose headshot hunters, and cqb bolting. And they'll most likely beat a noob using a noob weapon. The air game should have the same structure. Vets can still be happy with traditional nose guns, just like vets should continue to use cqb bolts, and they should absolutely dominate lesser weapons with them.

    Your argument for leaving the air game to the elites is why it's relatively dead.
  20. Demigan

    Nothing spot on about it. Like you he assumes that what we try to achieve isnt some super-easy mindless low-skill COD gameplay, what we try to achieve is a level of skill requirement that is more or less equal to the rest of the game.

    If you look at my proposals for example you can see that I propose to increase the amount of maneuvers and skills you can acquire to fly in addition to the current ones, but these skills are the accessible ones from other games so that skills are more transferable. Also some convoluted gameplay will be made more accesible, such as the RM that currently needs the engines in a specific position that isnt even very visible on the Scythe at a specific velocity while not pointing the nose too far down to pull off. My idea makes this possible at any velocity regardless of engine position and with intuitive controls based on "this is your current button input".

    The consequence is that players will be able to learn and execute a variety of different maneuvers, meaning both veterans and newbs can develop tactics against each other rather than all having to learn a single maneuverset and people with less skill having zero option to surprise or switch tactics to beat the opposition. Meaning they are for all practical intents and purposes going to lose every single fight until they start rivalling in that single skill. With a larger variety of skills that are effective you get masters at different maneuvers and tactics, meaning that you dont automatically lose because someone learned a singular skill better than you but that the culmination of all your skills makes you win.