[Suggestion] Laying Siege

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Scroffel5, Jun 22, 2019.

  1. Scroffel5

    I think it would be a good idea to let us be able to lay siege. "What are you talking about? We can already do that!" Yes, I know you can camp outside a building with a bunch of tanks and make sure nothing gets in or out of that base. What I am talking about has to do more with battle flow. What if you had to drive everywhere in Planetside? No more redeploying, just driving or flying. I know they wouldn't do that, but just think about it. Players would organize groups of vehicles that would contain sundies, tanks, and transport vehicles. Then for the air, you would have squadrons of ESFs and Liberators to rain fire from the sky. What if, say, a Light Assault or Infiltrator was following them, seeing where they were going to go, and reporting back to their squads about the intel they just gained? What if ANTs had to refuel the bases with cortium or some other energy source so that you could continue to spawn there, or still be able to spawn vehicles there? What if? Then, you would have to organize your own squadrons to stop the air, your own armor columns to stop the ground and infantry troops who decide to walk base to base. THINK ABOUT HOW AMAZING THAT WOULD BE! The tactics, the power, the immersion. Think about how that would add to game balance.

    Obviously, they won't take away redeploying or make anything like that, but if you had to stop ANTs from allowing defenders to spawn or stop the armor and air columns coming in to save the day, would you enjoy it? Would you think it would be a good idea to focus more on these? If they do this, I genuinely believe that Planetside 2 would be a better, more fun, more immersive game. What about you?
  2. Heini

    I don't think it would be a good idea to make spawns depend on Minecraft players.
  3. LordKrelas

    So, Air can rush the warpgate, preventing anything from leaving past an entire zerg.
    While the Underpop, gets to attempt the trick of driving or flying before an ESF wipes them out.

    While Defense-Wise: The opposing force just has to kill ANTs, like with a single Liberator, forcing the defense to be incapable of respawning if they even could respawn there.

    G2A, isn't in the same field as A2G, and with forced-travel, not only does Air reach everywhere first from anywhere, Air also has the biggest punch.
    And that's not counting how every session, becomes Driving-Simulator, unless you can survive the Skynights at the warp-gate for long enough to find a Hex where a fight is.

    Game Balance:
    Infantry have an Easier time against Vehicles, Than anything else has against Air, Past air itself.


    We also don't have perfect population, so they're royally screwed if the enemy is bright enough to fly aircraft on a lot of these maps.
    As it's open-terrain, (or it's hossin), where their Vehicles are exposed to long-range fire.
    At present, Defending a base, Is a brutally ineffective affair.
    Fighting Air, is never an equal battle: it either swings hard to one side or the other.

    A reliance entirely on ANTs to do an endless trip between cort & bases, hoping Air doesn't maul them..
    Pretty much means Whomever has more Air, will have more ANT killers.
    It also means, the higher pop can field more ANTs, which makes it harder to starve them -- They also have more people, to work with, like stopping the ANTs.

    IE, Sounds like hell.
    Let alone, having the fun of traveling from the warpgate constantly, hoping Air doesn't show up.
    Unless you know, you travel in an entire swarm -- unless Air stops being solo-wolves, in which case; You're just dead at the warpgate for hours.
    Which is also a situation, they can cause at the first 5 minutes, as to leave to spawn anywhere, You'd force them to exit into the spawn-camp.
  4. Moggram

    Hey, that's how it was in PlanetSide 1. It was a lot of fun (and work). You got a lot of XP for running ants out to a base but you only did this when the generator was down.

    Air is only a problem if you don't have AA. In PlanetSide 1 all most all vehicles have a 2ed weapon could be used for AA or AI.
    The big thing in PlanetSide 2 is MBT use AV top guns and lightnings can only be AV or AA. Harassers do this alot too, so the only AA you most of the time is Sunderers useing the M20 Basilisk if that...
    And of course when someone pulls AA, the air flys away (as thay should), then you stop using the skyguard. The Liberator know this and kills some stuff over there. Thay pull AA and then the lid comes back over to were you are. How do I know this? Because it's what I did for a long time. I thought people would wise up to this, but no.
  5. LordKrelas

    Great, so an entire faction can only enjoy being spawn-camped or log-off in Ps1.

    You ever used AA in Planet-side-2?
    As this ain't Planetside-1. We do not have the same AA, ESFs are not split into three types either.

    Do you recall, how Air has this magical ability to pick their fight, and vehicles can't freely shift to AA weapons, Which are suicide against anything else nearly?
    You pick AA, you aren't likely to be attacked by Air: But every other common threat now is going to kill you.
    You pick an Non-AA gun, or aren't surrounded by AA carriers (Whom have to avoid everything else on the field)..
    That Aircraft now has an Easy target - As that Vehicle can not run from the aircraft, and it can't reliably fight it either.

    When you have AA, they sit idle, with the most severe vulnerability to everything else.
    Pull Tank; Not AA, Aircraft magics in - Have AA - Now you die to anything that isn't Air, which will magically not engage.
    So, Sure Planet-side1, Having entire factions be spawn-camped & unable to play worth a damn..

    This is planetside 2, Lets not make it "Spawn-Camp the game" any-further eh?
    And recall, the interaction between Air & Ground, Is a murderously piss-poor experience.
    You are either Farming them merciless, or Dead if Air.
    If Ground; You are either instantly killing them (this is bad) , Ineffective (as it is a deterrent, which is bad), or Have literally no job Past dodging the other 90% of the game


    In short:
    When you have AA, you have no Air, but you now have a severe disadvantage against everything else.
    When you don't have AA, you have Air up the ***, with the fastest TTK possible.

    It's not fun to be spawn-camped, Let alone as the only option to play.
    It's not fun to be screwed either.
    Sure it's Fun for one-side, To completely make someone else have a miserable time, for some people.

    So, I don't care if Planetside 1, allowed an entire-faction to be rendered unable to play.
    Nor that every High-rank could OSC at will.
    It's not all that fun on the Receiving end, to basically be unable to play, Past "Be farmed, for No certs at all, Or Log off" Experience.

    And that's not just since It's "Not flashy enough", You can have the same gameplay experience akin to that, By going into a game with Bots, and disconnecting your keyboard.
  6. Moggram

    So then you see my point. To fix this problem, DBG should just remove AV top guns from MBT and give lightings a Basilisk.

    It's like in MechWarrior on line, everyone cry's about LRMs but don't want to use ATMs.
  7. TR5L4Y3R


    ....uhhh no it´s sooo absolutly not like MW:O
    MW:O has no infantry nor air

    as sidenote
    ATM´s work fairly well against missiles like have 2 atmboat kitfoxes and 2 atm assisted corsairs (one or 2 variants can pic up to 4 atm´s) almost any missilerain that comes your direction is nullified ...

    MW:O is all vehicle combat ... take instead the mod living legends for crysis warhead ...
    and still the difference is how weapons there can reach air far easier (not just LRMs) than vehicles and infantry can in planetside 2

    PS2 has a horrible ballance in G2A/A2G engagemeants ..
  8. Scroffel5

    I have been reading your things. To balance warpgate camping, the bases surrounding the warpgate wouldn't need ANTs, for maybe 2 bases out. Then you need ANTs progressively more and more based on how far out you are.

    On the topic of air, a sundy with 2 AA turrets works nicely on ESF. The gunners destroyed all of the air. It was amazing. What DBG could do is make a new AA turret that comes on every vehicle by default. Problem solved, more or less. Or just make the Basilisk better at AA.
  9. Scroffel5

    Btw, that means that if a faction warpgates another faction, they would need ANTs to bring power to that base outside the enemy warpgate constantly, because of how far away it is from their warpgate. That will make attacking easier.
  10. Moggram

    Yes you are right. What I was trying to get across is people will cry about something when there is a in game fix to the problem. In MWO people will say LRM are op or no skill weapons. I tell them just use a AMS, it's only 1.5 tun. Of course thay say "I need the room for XYZ". So when I see some guy in PlanetSide cry's about air, I feel like I'm running into the same problem.
  11. Scroffel5

    I get what you are saying. There are viable options to taking down air that people don't really care enough about. People can use AA weapons, but that means they are going to lose out on close range fights against armor. The right way to go would be to have one AV and one AA, but then you don't have AI. Oh wait a minute, did I just make a point? You have to make sacrifices sometimes, guys. Honestly, I think that air needs more crit areas. If you shoot a jet in the right spots, it is going to go down. You can't do that for an ESF. ESFs should fight like a buffed Flash, get in and get out. As in this state, they can stay around for a while, but guess what? Get 2 lock on heavies and they are toast, because most run fire repair thing.

    What Planetside needs more of is teamwork. "What are you talking about, Scroffel? We already have that!" Well yeah, but you need to do it better, guys. When you see a zerg heading your way, get a whole squad of heavies to get on a hillside and fire a volley of rockets at the same target at the same time. They just don't do that. Armor column holding allies at a stand still? Get a Wraith Flash squad and transport players to the next base, an infil, some heavies, and some medics, hack the vehicle terminal so they can't pull armor, pull a sundy, get on point with the heavies and medics, and win that base before the armor column has a chance to figure out what is going on, or if they do figure it out, your allies can push. Yet, they don't do that. Hey guys, look! ESFs and Liberators are raining fire from the skies! Well, then get 2 AA sundies and 4 gunners and wreak havoc on them, or get a Lightning with a Skyguard. Boom. Air is gone. And yet, we don't do that. All I ask is "why." Why can't everyone have the goal to win the fight even when they don't need to? Why can't everyone want to work together, even if they aren't in a squad? Why can't we do this? You should be able to work with your blueberries, your cherries, and your grapes. Let's just have the "lets win this" mentality without bringing in the negative juices.

    What I propose is that everyone who reads this put on that mentality and spread it. Try to do crazy, stupid, smart stuff. Get your Heavy squad and take down all the tanks waiting for you. Get your Infiltrator squad and stalk the point and light up people with sheer madness (once they fix the cloak my gosh). Get your sniper squad and take down people from the point. Get your Light Assault squad and C4 stuff and be absolute cancer. Get your MAX squad and pretend you are Iron Man without repulsors. Get your armor squad and destroy, destroy, DESTROY. Get your tranports and get people from base to base. Get your aircraft squadrons and take control of the skies. And get your allies, and take control of Auraxis. Why can we do this? Because this is Planetside.
  12. TR5L4Y3R


    right ams not atm :p

    fix the problem? what problem/s exactly? lrm´s being counterable by ams is very specific in which the more direct equivalent in my mind would be lock on vs aicraft in which case they can counter with flares ... specificaly air v air ...

    but there are differences PS2 has various sources from which lock ons can come from, and lock ons (especialy the esf variant) are rather bad and fully nullified even though PS2s counteranswer is both cooldownbased and requires manual activation ...
    MW:Os counteranswer to missiles is either munitionbased were it can run out or in case of laserams at worst can shut your mech down from overheating (which would be/is quite embarasing) but still requires zero effort ... unlike fireing any missilesystem ...


    the coredifference though is in MW:O mechs can always manage to get into engagemeantrange to other mechs
    which is also true for PS2 aircraft getting to other aircraft ... it is however untrue for any other PS2 plattform ... and that makes things simply more complicated to find appropriate solutions for these platforms ...


    on a sidenote: groundvehicles in ps2 have no access to lockons, they have a counter with the smokescreen but that is rather worthless as very few use lockons against vehicles (or rather the smokescreen is visualy more helpful than mechanicaly) .. however still air AND infantry can keep on engaging them .. this does not solve the coreproblem though, which is infantry and vehicles being unable to engage aircraft at any time ...
  13. Moggram

    Ummm... Oops.

    This is what we call "The Meta". I just don't see away round it. Most MBTers want to kill MBTs and other ground targets...

    I just thought of something, I think the problem is air can kill everyone all the time. For the most part the air game is a lot like it was in PlanetSide 1, but with way more agility. Infantry and vehicles have to pick one type of thing to be good at killing or maybe two things, but be just ok at it.

    Hmmm... You're thoughts?
  14. Scroffel5

    Here are my thoughts. Air isn't susceptible to anything other than more air, AA turrets or getting hit by a rocket launcher. That blows it up in one shot but it is hard to hit. For ESFs, boost the damage small arms fire does. That will make people shoot at it more. I know I don't shoot at ESFs because it barely does anything to it, and I am using a sniper so /shrug, I guess. If we boost the damage small arms do to ESFs and Valks too, that means they would have to get in and get out. That would make them easier to deal with. Maybe also boost the damage explosive weapons do to them too, because it is annoying to have to shoot these things twice.

    For all aircraft, make more "high crit" areas. Y'know how tanks have less armor on the back and you can do more damage by shooting it? That is what you have to do for ESFs and Valks. Lets face it; it is an aircraft. If you shoot anything that it needs to fly, it is going to go down and explode. They won't do that for Planetside, but it needs to have more areas that pilots want to protect, like how tanks want to protect their backs.

    For Liberators and Galaxies, I think that they need to be less manueverable, more susceptible to explosive weaponry, and more susceptible to Flak turrets. If you are going to lay down waste to those things, and they never leave, why should they stay alive. I am tired of using those Heat AA turrets at bases and shooting at them until it overheats, and they are still alive. Also, boost the accuracy of those AA turrets. When they start flying away, just a little bit, you can't shoot them. That is stupid, because they can just get out of range and shoot you. They don't even need to fly away.

    I think that all of these should happen to balance air.
  15. TR5L4Y3R


    it´s far too late to turn ps2 back to how ps1 was ...

    the suggestions i and others of the forum made over months if not years is to add more AA weapons to vehicles but with propper skill requiremeant (some asked to have those replace flak/deterentweapons though personaly i´m against that) like saronesk autocannons or wireguided missiles, maybe a groundversion of podmissles ..
    another suggestion was nanitecosting oneshot missilelaunchers for infantry (dumbfire or wireguided) that however can do much more damage than nonnanite costing ones ...
    a suggestion i made is to increase the pitch of varius existing weapons such as mbtcannons or manaturrets to be able to provide aa, the AV mana turret is wireguided f.e. .. and that all just for AA

    other than that esf controls have been critised for being unintuitive and difficult many times over and we asked for having them made easir and allow better customatation of the controls ..

    there are many ways to improve G2A/A2G play in this game ...
  16. Scroffel5

    That is actually wrong. You can do anything you put your mind to, and you can turn PS2 into PS1 v2. All you gotta do is try, but you probably would anger some players, and bring back old players. All we have to do is get these devs to make good updates to balance things out. I think things need to have an ounce of realism in them. There is no way you are shooting any plane with 3 mags and it won't go down. What Planetside 2 needs is a "logic balance team." They would work on helping things to make sense and work with everything else, so that it would all maintain balance. Then they need an "ideas team" to come up with ideas for the game. They all work hand in hand with the team on publicity, and they make it work. Ideas go to logic balance, which goes to the dev team, which goes back to the logic balance team to make sure it all works, then it gets released on the test server, then it gets tweaked and put on live, which is all being told to us by the publicity team. That is how you make a good game. Coordination.
  17. Pikachu

    What if panzers got an additional top mounted weapon that can be either kobalt or flak? This weapon manned by a 3rd crew member.
  18. TR5L4Y3R


    .... hhhhmmmmmm ... rather not turn mbt´s into groundlibs ...
    every plattform should have specialysationoptions but with downsides ...
  19. TR5L4Y3R


    realism already matters jack, this is both a videogame and a scifigame with scifi magic that uses combatlogic from ww2 ...

    vehicle combat by itself is good enough, infantry combat by itself is good enough

    what needs improvemeant is infantry vs vehicles which however does not requiere much work imo
    infils could get a limited AV specialsation in the form of AVgrenades as well as medics (give them AV grenades and a primary AV weapon(rockletrifle)) to be capabble to defend themselves or offer support in vehicle battles .. and dbg can do that with already existing assets ...
    maxes need to be looked at to be a propper infantry/firesupportplattform ..

    but G2A/A2G is what needs the most work as well as air itself at least with ESFs..

    as for trying? ... with the limited resources i assume DBG have i heavily doubt it ....
  20. Scroffel5

    Actually, that is a great idea. Then MBTs become more survivable against everything that they already have a problem with, mostly Air and C4 is what I have seen, and then Liberators will be less powerful against them. That solves problems!

    I like that idea. Make a separate post about it to gain more attention than my post here.