Devs: Magrider Issues

Ah, so Blackboemel who shows you something called "actual vodeo evidence" instead of "anecdotal evidence most of which is manufactured" is not someone who plays all 3 factions and does not have a lot of experience, despite showing an aweful lot of experience actually handling most of the situations you say are practically unwinnable?

For example the whole "they get under me" rethoric keeps popping up. While any actual video evidence and the simplest test in the VR show that it is quite literally a less-than-a-second invonvenience and if someone manages to stay below you for an extended period of time, you must be unable to even move your damn mouse as even that lets you roll off in many cases. And also the evidence points that anyone who does not do things one at a time will have no rear-shots happening to him and be able to use it to shoot their demonic ultra-evil Magrider tormenters who drive below them in the rear.

This is quite literally the only scenario where the enemy can get a shot in your rear while you move over them:
Either you or the enemy moves closer, the Magrider either not using strafe or deliberately strafing in front of the enemy (not unwise if you deliberately attempt it as it requires more turret-turning for your enemy). The front of the Magridee moves over the enemy, the Magrider does nothing but keep moving straight down the length of the tank, not thinking or caring to act about the obvious event that is about to follow. The Magrider falls off the tank, and only now decides to start turning, giving the tank enough time to predict the Magrider's position and shoot him in the rear.

Or the Magrider could anticipate, turn while on top the enemy so his front is facing the tank upon falling off, and rather than act like a helpless victim that cant act during the ride could actively make it harder to shoot the bottom (simply turning will do this for you already) and guide where you drop off the enemy vehicle.
This could be as simple as "the enemy tank just started getting underneath me, I will turn left/right for 90 degrees, press backwards". Now you land on the side, this is handy when the enemy is moving as it will limit exposure of your bottom armor and give you a chance to shoot their rear as they pass.
If you are the one actively moving over them, you can turn 90 degrees for the first part, strafe off the back as that's faster than going backwards and preserves more of your forwards momentum after a boost, then turn the last 90 degrees as you fall off and shoot.

For all you "highly experienced" players out there. I have used this with a half-tricked out Magrider and beaten competent tankers with it. Its one of the reasons why I say these tactics work, and why surprisingly the only not-anecdotal evidence of Magriders and their subjective capabilities actually does these maneuvers.

So far the "Magriders arent UP" team has:
Statistics.
Video evidence.
Anecdotal evidence.
Simple tests you can perform in VR right now.

The "Magriders are UP crowd has so far:
Anecdotal evidence.
A unique superiority complex that can only be justified by an equipment-related inferiority complex.
The strong mention that "statistics might say so but that isnt my experience", or similar remarks.

I wonder which group is a more reliable source of information everyone...

And one more thing: if Blackboemels evidence is a "once in a lifetime experience", then ALL OTHER MAGRIDER FOOTAGE SHOULD BE OF MAGRIDERS GETTING BURNED. shouldnt be hard to provide your own video evidence right? So if its soooo easy to get it... WHERE IS IT? Prove your point dudes! Athough "dudes" is a strong word here for the wet-tissue level of smbackbone you've shown trying to back this up. "I seen it and I got people who support me" is about the most schoolyard defence of an argument.

Demigan, I have no clue why you even bother replying...I no longer read your posts. Waste of time just for your highly biased opinion, in an effort to protect your advantages. Nothing to see there, folks. Ignore him like I do.

For everyone else, I'll repeat what I said earlier about the damage output between the MBTs:

Using the AP rounds and max reload speed, here are the REAL numbers (not some fantasy video) in the race to do 5,000 damage to destroy a Magrider or Prowler, and 6,000 damage to destroy a Vanguard:

Magrider
First shot = 750 dmg
2.93 secs = 1,500 dmg
5.86 secs = 2,250 dmg
8.79 secs = 3,000 dmg
11.72 secs = 3,750 dmg
14.54 secs = 4,500 dmg
17.58 secs = 5,250 dmg and Prowler destroyed
20.51 secs = 6,000 dmg and Vanguard destroyed, IF you caught the Vanguard without the use of its shield

Vanguard
First shot = 850 dmg
3.38 secs = 1,700 dmg
6.76 secs = 2,550 dmg
10.14 secs = 3,400 dmg
13.52 secs = 4,250 dmg
16.90 secs = 5,000 dmg and Magrider / Prowler destroyed

Prowler (broken down to include 0.5 second reload between shots)
First shot = 600 dmg
0.5 secs = 1,200 dmg
3.65 secs = 1,800 dmg
4.15 secs = 2,400 dmg
7.3 secs = 3,000 dmg
7.8 secs = 3,600 dmg
10.95 secs = 4,200 dmg
11.45 secs = 4,800 dmg
14.16 secs = 5,400 dmg and Magrider destroyed
14.66 secs = 6,000 dmg and Vanguard destroyed

However, the Prowler has the Barrage ability, which shortens its reload speed by 30%. This, on a MBT that already does the most damage in the least amount of time, is utterly ridiculous. In other words, the Barrage ability lasts for 15 seconds, which is roughly the amount of time that it takes to destroy the Vanguard. How much faster does it make that destruction? The Prowler can kill a Vanguard in 10.26 seconds if all shots land! The Magrider is no match, being destroyed in a mere 9.91 seconds!

So, now let's put those numbers into a real scenario, and not some hand picked YouTube video that is not typical of an everyday tank battle:

You're in your Magrider on Indar and you are moving up the road on the west side of Quartz Ridge. As you turn the corner, a Vanguard or Prowler is sitting there and they see you. The race is now on to destroy the other tank. What are your options?

1. Turn around and give them a double damage shot at your rear.
2. Engage them and hope they can't land their shots.
3. Attempt some 1 second Magburn only to have them swivel their turret toward you while you try and move your WHOLE DAMN TANK to get back on target.

Meanwhile, the Vanguard has popped its shield, so, that 20.51 seconds you needed has now been greatly increased. Likewise, the Prowler has engaged Barrage, and you are seconds away from a redeploy assist. In either scenario, there is no top gunner for any tank. If you add in a top gunner, it only makes things worse, especially if it is a Prowler with a Vulcan, or a Vanguard with a Mjolnir. The Magrider does not stand a snowball's chance in Hell.

The numbers and scenarios above don't lie. What is the answer? Watch more YouTube videos? Pretend a problem does not exist? Pure drivel. No, the Magrider needs some buffs so that it can compete in the open field against the other MBTs.

Oh, and for those that say to play the Magrider like a heavy Harasser up in he hills, the convoy I am supposed to be traveling with does not play like a heavy Harasser. They travel from hex to hex on the roads, engaging targets along the way. It does me no good to be 200m away from them. Meanwhile, the Prowler and Vanguard get the benefit of repair and ammo Sunderers in their convoys.

Yeah, really balanced there.

Highly biased? Are you dyslexic? Or just salty as hell (? Demigan is one of the few people on these forums who regularly shows a lack of bias, a clear head, and solid logic (although he did just roast your *** about something that clearly happens hundreds more times in a single lifetime, and using words and metaphors improperly tends to incite that).

Sure, that video of Magrider tips is indeed a reel of clips just like any other reel of headshots, but it actually happens much more often in game than you think (a tank flank likely happens to someone every 12 minutes or so per server).

Magrider could indeed use a small increase in forward top speed and a small increase in gun aiming sensitivity/movement, especially when zooming. Otherwise, I think it's an excellent tank for those who like to flank or use the terrain to their advantage as it allows for it much more than any other heavy vehicle. You could easily think of it similarly to how someone who trains to be a rogue/acrobat is not as physically strong or durable as someone who trains to be a fighter/swordsman, but has an easier time dodging and getting an ambush or flank going and can capitalize on them more than others can.

Aside from these minor quality of life tweaks the Magirder is quite balanced when use it's strengths. But if you can't or don't pilot the Magrider like how the Vanu intellectuals who designed and built the damn thing to be able to use more advanced and intelligent tactics such as tank strafing or flanking, don't pull one! I mean honestly, who in their right mind equips a battle or sniper rifle for an engagement they know is going to be at short range?

Here are some videos that illustrate what my OP is about:



In the video above, pay attention to the time stamp at 0:58. That is firing OVER the top of cover with the main gun, which a Magrider can't do. Then, the rest of the video showcases how powerful that Vanguard's shield is in an open field fight.



In the video above, the Vanguard was already damaged when it engaged the Magrider. The Mag was trying to do the side strafe dance, but, at that range it does not matter. The Vanguard rushed in with its faster speed, popped its shield, and destroyed the Mag.



In that video, the two groups are rolling in convoys. The Vanguard shows its brawler strength with the shield accompanied by repair Sunderers (the Prowler's had them too). If the situation had included a VS convoy, where do you think the Magriders would have been? Up in the hills away from the battle, offering ZERO close combat support to friendly armor.

Xoniq.

Yes, now it's crystal clear what your OP is about.
You picked these clips to show that Magriders are UP.
I don't know how to avoid to look like an arrogant veteran when i start to talk about the nerfs and buffs we had since those clips were recorded or about the "skill" level in these clips. Damn... - arrrrgh!
Sorry, i'm out.

You should be careful about pulling rank of skill when some of the people in those videos have better stats than you, mr B & C's.

Hey please let's set a date and time come 1v1 me with you using a magrider and I either use a prowler or vanguard.I will burn your so called logic right to the ground along with your ego.You should be banned from the game along with forums because you don't have anything useful to say about the topic.You try to show your intelligence but you fail and burn each and every time.You better try to show some hard facts rather than beating around the bush.

Wait, isn't that a GOOD THING?
If these guys were low skilled chaff then it would mean its the skill and not the equipment that's at fault. Yet he defeated them in a Magrider despite being less skilled and often outnumbered and doing everything you say shouldnt happen?

Then there's the video's posted. Every single one has the Magrider in an inferior position, never advantageous or equal.

The first has the target tank a shot, and it takes almost the entire reload before the Magrider reacts, allowing the Vanguard to put in two shells before the Magrider even does anything.

You can see a gunner that does not fire its Saron for several cycles. The same fight also starts with the Magrider coming into view and obliterating a Lightning, meaning its on a reload and exposing its side when the fight begins and the Vanguard shoots it.

The damaged Vanguard wins because the Magrider deliberately puts itself on a low position, reducing the amount of Vanguard he can see and hit and he subsequently does miss several shots. Then when the Vanguard closes in all they do is backup, rather than try and get in close to get an advantage or try to get cover. Even if the Magrider had gotten 6000 health and a shield he would have lost simply because the user was vastly unskilled.

Every fight shown has either a terrible Magrider user or a bad situation for the Magrider, such as no backup while the Vanguard has lots of friendlies nearby. If this is what you base your opinion on its a small wonder you think Magrider's are UP. Whats even more disconcerting is that Wolfborne, the guy who claims to have lots of experience, thinks that these terrible Magrider drivers are representative for the Magrider population.

Now if someone could repost these findings for mister "I cant handle it if my points get challenged so I dont read it and tell everyone its just bad opinions" that would be great.

As has been pointed out already, 1v1's are a useless way to prove your point. We need some objective proof that doesnt rely on subjectiveness or skill difference. That is why performance statistics for example are good to show how good or bad something is.

Ofcourse you could swing your ****** around until you accidentally hit yourself in the face, but that wont prove anything.

He tried playing off the magrider drivers in those videos as "unskilled chaff" as you put it, when in fact many of them have better stats than himself. If they are "bad" then what does that make him, since he is a worse player by all measureable statstics.

Should we really take a worse players advice here? Oh wait this is the forums after all.

Imagine calling this magrider driver terrible: http://stats.dasanfall.com/ps2/player/Calisai
Whilst thinking this magrider driver is good: http://stats.dasanfall.com/ps2/player/Abraxasian

You're prime ****-posting here.

If this worse player can defeat "superior" players with tactics that according to the "Magrider UP" crowd shouldnt work, then it means the tactics are actually working and even powerful to use.

Also if you use the objective stats to see which player is superior, then you should also accept the objective overall stats based on all players, good and bad. Those stats prove the Magrider is not inferior.

Wait do you think I'm talking about his video? think you've got something confused here. He was calling into question the "counter video" magrider drivers skill, despite them being better players than himself in ALL MESURABLE STATISTICS, as shown above. (firefox post editing doesn't work for some reason?)

Ok, these people are good. But they had an absolutely horrible way of playing during the videos displayed.

You have to be a crap-poster yourself if you will not acknowledge the absolutely horrible gameplay presented by these Magriders. They take seconds to react, gunners dont fire for several reloads, they deliberately take the low ground and then back up keeping a short distance allowing the opponents to hit them with little skill required and more. They are outplayed and outplayed hard. They might be good overall, but these clips they suck hard.

Firefox editing never works, you have to select "more options" to get it to work.

No, one of them is good, the other is ok.

Since you might not know, Abraxasian = Blackbommel.
He is calling into question the skill of Calisai, a better player than himself by all metrics.

You see how stupid this sounds? Though I don't think you care, since he supports your position.

I do not have a hand in this game as I am not a tank driver, just to get that out of the way and explain that I am deferring to the knowledge of everyone else.
My question is, if the Magrider is underperforming in every regard as you say, what do you want to happen? Do you want the prowler and vanguard nerfed? Do you want the Magrider buffed so as to have comparable TTK and survival but also keep the ability to get places the others can't, the jinking and the afterburner?

Because as I see it, if all three tanks have comparable HP and DPS yet one of them can get places the other two can't? well, we've got a problem on our hands. Don't recall the last time I saw a vanguard sitting on the top of a tree or roof of a building. (The mythical vannie-stack doesn't count )

Nobody in here is an idiot, that's apparent from everyone's posts on the subject, so I can't imagine that what I outlined above is what you want. It's an awfully difficult subject that I don't think statistics can actually solve; When one tank is fundamentally different to the others how on earth can balance be reached through compared statistics? At the bare minimum you'd want to see heatmaps of WHERE tanks are being used to alongside these weapon stats and I still don't think that would give you the information you need.
How do we make the magrider FUN?

Since the actual skill of the individuals are irrelevant when judging just these clips I ignored it. But how about we look at the actual response Blackboemel gave:

Like me he makes a judgement call. The Magrider skill in the clips is horrible. They might have superior performance stats overall, but the Magrider skill displayed in the video is terrible, and therefore the clips do not represent a good grounds to buff the Magrider.

And again, your interpretation of Blackboemel's reaction is off. Its not about him saying he's superior, just that in the clips those players are horrible.

Anybody talks about positioning one more time and I am gonna lose it. What do you suggest I do when a prowler or a vanguard comes within cqc range should I just bend over.The pathways between bases are trash and does not allow for a better positioning that would turn the tide of the battle .The prowler will win at ranged combat and vanguard will close the distance and kick our butts in cqc.It is heavy harraser you say then let the gunner repair damage as well.

You guys keep saying a 1v1 won't prove anything but how i am supposed to believe that magrider will suprisingly get good in zerg clash.Our weak MBT is a disgrace and should not be even called a tank. No freely rotatable turret with slowest turning speed well that means death.

Demigan what is your personal experience in driving a magrider ?