Devs: Magrider Issues

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Wolfborne, May 20, 2019.

  1. Uthael

    Out of curiosity, I went to reddit...
    There are topics named "How to make magriders more competitive" and "When will magrider get a buff?"... Although I found one where in title it says magriders are better in something and people in the topic agree:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/Planetside...agriders_are_op_because_they_can_go_anywhere/
  2. InexoraVC

    The most people don't ever know how to spot enemy and how to use right Aphelion. Most of them just shoot "somewhere there... where enemies are" instead of capturing points using Infiltrators.

    But
    if (you are BR 100 AND your enemy has BR 100 too AND you fight not in 20-vs-20 tank battle with random shots)
    {
    you have no chance to win against other MBTs. No way.
    }
    For example 1-vs-1, 3-vs-3, 5-vs-5 high experienced MBT's pilots battle you will loose in 90% of situations.

    I think Magburner has to be buffed (4..5 sec) - that will make Magrider competive to other MBT.
    • Up x 1
  3. JudgeNu

    I have never battled IN a Mag but i have come across my fair share of them.
    Their maneuverability is their strength.

    1.Strafing side to side makes them hard to hit decreasing the damage they potentially can take just from misses.

    2.They can jet up sides of hills etc and perch easily and effectively.

    Idk, when is the last time a Mag was destroyed by a Lockdown Prowler?
    Definitely not a slow as a Vanguard.

    If you buff Mags you risk making them OP.

    My 2 cents.
    • Up x 2
  4. Edenwolf

    So what if the Magrider is at a disadvantage when caught off guard at close range, it's at an advantage at every other range due to the ability to stafe and weapons that have no bullet drop. Magburner most certainly can save you in dire situations, allowing you to quickly find cover, not to mention the Magburner allows you to get to locations no other tank can.
    • Up x 1
  5. Uthael

    Having no arc is a weakness with a gun mounted that low. It can't fire over rocks... Other tanks can use small cover for cover. Magrider blocks its own line of fire while leaving its top exposed.
    Strafing doesn't help much at medium range either. Only long range. And the rest doesn't really cover for the disadvantages in combat stats.
  6. Edenwolf

    The main cannon has arc, and since you re hovering the main cannon is actually equal to, if not higher then the other tanks, nullifying that argument. I was referring to the top mounted weapon which has no problem with blockage. Strafing at medium range does help, if you land all your shots and they miss one, it's gg. Also you're able to peak in and out of cover just as if you were an infantry with a smaller profile and at higher mobility then other tanks that have to back up and drive forward, revealing most of their side profile. The slim profile and the fact that you're lifted off the ground makes it that much harder to hit you granted both tanks are on flat ground.
  7. Wolfborne

    Just, no.

    You obviously have no clue how low the main gun sits. You CAN'T fire over the top of cover like the other MBTs can. That is a SERIOUS disadvantage. In order to fire, you have to expose at least half your tank. In order to fire over cover, you have to climb to the top of the cover. Guess where your main gun is pointing while climbing? Straight up into the sky. Yeah, real effective for hitting other tanks that are firing over the top of rocks.
    • Up x 3
  8. InexoraVC

    Completely agree.
    I've found stealth Harasser with Vulcan cannon beneath my Magrider yesterday on Hossin@Miller. I felt myself very helpless. 1sec Magburner doesn't help in that situation.

    We need more maneuverability to the Magrider!
    • Up x 2
  9. Towie

    Magriders are particularly vulnerable to a Vulcan Harasser full-stop and have been like forever. After years of tweaks, the situation hasn't changed.

    This is my post on the subject from 2015: https://forums.daybreakgames.com/ps...he-chaingun-on-harrasers.217189/#post-3132147

    ...here is a copy/paste - see if it sounds familiar:

    "We're going to keep getting these posts, so i'll try to summarise:

    Yep the Magrider is particularly vulnerable to the Vulcan-H - even with a good secondary gunner, it's a handful.

    The Vanguard isn't much better.

    Harasser + Vulcan-H = match made in heaven

    Lots of people will say it's not OP

    ...yet 50-100% more are pulled than Enforcer and Saron Harasers COMBINED which means you're very likely to come across one - and die to one (they are the number one MBT death reason that isn't AP or mine/C4) - you'll feel like you didn't stand a chance, so raise a new topic on the forum saying it's not fair.

    <REPEAT ad infinitum>"
    • Up x 1
  10. Edenwolf

    Actually I have quite a good idea how the Magrider performs, including not having a hard time finding cover that is able to protect while I'm firing, I'm sorry you can't figure it out.
    • Up x 1
  11. Uthael

    Here's an interesting thought... Is there a way to make Magriders counter Harassers, but leave them weaker in comparison to other MBTs?
  12. DerMalle

    Are you guys serious? Noone uses a prowler anymore because it loses to all the other tanks.
    The only time it can be used is from far far away to kill some construction or, if lucky, a deployed sunderer.
    I cannot believe you want the strongest faction buffed even more. smh
  13. Towie

    Prowler is most definitely still used. Looking at the count of 'uniques':

    AP weapons - slightly less than Titan AP, more than Magrider - https://voidwell.com/ps2/oracle?sta...,3460&startDate=2019-04-26&endDate=2019-05-26

    HEAT - same story - https://voidwell.com/ps2/oracle?sta...,4000&startDate=2019-04-26&endDate=2019-05-26

    HESH - same story (occasionally the highest unique count) - https://voidwell.com/ps2/oracle?sta...,4000&startDate=2019-04-26&endDate=2019-05-26


    So in summary: ALL Prowler weapon types have more uniques at any point compared to Magrider. The thing that has changed is the count of Vanguards (historically it was always lower than the Prowler).


    It's even more surprising when you consider the number of Harassers pulled by TR - here's the CQC comparison: https://voidwell.com/ps2/oracle?sta...02900&startDate=2019-04-26&endDate=2019-05-26
    So the Vulcan is still pulled more than Aphelion AND Mjolnir combined. Frankly i'm surprised there's any TR left as infantry to actually take a base.
    • Up x 3
  14. InexoraVC

    No! I don't need Mag be stronger against some type of vehicle. This is ubalanced solution.
    Magrider "be alive" period SHOULD depend MORE on skill of certain pilot. More skilled pilot is => more time to survive and to make chaos in enemy lines => more time to have gaming pleasure.
    That is why I talk about more maneuverability for the Magrider.
    Today you can't efficiently withstand some types of enemies (Har+Vulcan, MBTs). And it doesn't depend on what chassis do you use (racer or rival) - your strafing ability is low as the ability to retreat/charge using magburner. You will die very quick in any MBT's duel against experienced player. So your "be alive" period does depend on you skill very slightly.
  15. InexoraVC

    Hmm... But who constanly kills my Magrider. Some red dual-tubed tank... hmm :))
  16. LaughingDead

    Maggys have the most mobility, second highest main turret dps, best climbing ability and well rounded topguns

    Vanguards have the least mobility, lowest main turret dps, worst climbing ability and uniformal topguns

    Prowlers have the second most mobility, highest main turret DPS, second best climbing ability and moderately rounded topguns

    Any data in a set can look biased if you take away anything from it. But since we're having a pity party right now.....

    Personally, I think the vanguard is the worst tank in the game right now, not because it can't take a beating but because it has the longest downtime and worst general performance out of the three. When you pull 450 nanites for an MBT, you're pulling for HP for the vanguard, the other two have mobility and damage but you, little NC, have possibly the worst out of the three, the ability to take 1-2 shots more which generally doesn't matter when in a DPS race you will still be whittled down to the last bit of HP against the other two.

    Now you can say "Oh but you all have the shield that reduces damage! That's OP!" Well sure, every 60 seconds (at rank one going to 40 seconds at rank 5) we win a close range slugfest with any tank that's too stupid to not be in a safe position or gets out flanked by the least mobile and slowest tank in the game, but then you have magburn which is disengage every 30 to 20 seconds and then you have barrage which is gain 30% extra DPS every 50 to 35 seconds for 15 seconds and with such you can actually beat down the vanguard shield bonuses. Even if the vanguard wins, it's the worst at repairing and retreating, taking far longer to get into a safe position any of the other tanks would and it takes longer to rep because of the increased HP that I've already said that you need in order to trade into the other tanks because of your lower DPS.
    • Up x 4
  17. boey

    I have nearly 320 hours in a Magrider. The thing with the Magrider is this:

    1. You are in desperate need of a second, really good gunner. A 1/2 Magrider is just cannonfodder for the enemy. You can go 1/2 in a Prowler or Vanguard and be quite effective, but NOT in a Magrider.

    2. You need MUCH more skill for being effective with a Magrider, than with a Prowler or Vanguard. For attacking enemy MBT's you ALWAYS have to sneak on them and get them from the rear. You CAN NOT face a Prowler or Vanguard from the front without support. Sneaking on a Prowler or Vanguard is only possible, if the terrain around you is letting you do this. If there are no objects or hills around, you have no chance. A Magrider Pilot has to be one with the terrain around him all the time.

    This learning curve is just the biggest problem. People think they can go toe to toe with a Magrider against Prowlers or Vanguards and be effective, and just get smashed. Getting smashed repeatedly, and again, and again...

    Good and effective Magrider pilots have countless hours in their tanks, know the terrain around in and out, and always have second gunners, who know what they are doing.
    • Up x 3
  18. Wolfborne

    If you think that the Mag's main gun sits equal to or higher than the other MBTs main gun, you are completely delusional. Sounds like you are just trying to defend the Prowler's or Vanguard's advantage.
  19. Wolfborne

    Uhm, no. The Prowler does the most damage if the double tap lands (at close to medium range, it will). The Vanguard comes in 2nd place on a shot-per-shot basis.

    But it has 1,000 more health and a shield to absorb / lower damage, thus making it a brawler.

    Prowlers have the highest dps AND the best top guns, not to mention the fastest movement speed.
  20. LaughingDead

    Bruv, I don't think you mean to misunderstand on purpose, but DPS is damage per second, not damage per shot and even if it was, mag would still be second place in that.


    Again, this was just an example to show how any amount of data can show bias. That was the point for the first half of my post, showing half points and gaps in data is dumb and helps no one.

    Again, I am purposely not showing the full picture to give a biased argument and here, when you claim prowlers have the highest dps, is a different form of dps that I'm talking about in my original post.

    Look, if you want to have an actual discussion, you can't just half *** data. Sure, vanguard has the highest damage per shot but it has the lowest of the three in damage per second, it has the highest health but longest repair time because it generally needs all of it, so on and so forth.


    Bull
    ****.

    Half a vanguard is worse than a lightning in terms of DPS in almost every regard. I'll grant you could do it with a prowler and MAYBE a mag rider but never a vanguard.


    With how much time you spend in either vanguard or prowler I highly doubt you know how "skillful" they are. But then again you only claim how many hours in a maggy you spend, so I already had doubts due to bias.


    Generally because you can depending on the situation. If they're going to straight up slugfest, it's basically praying to god that the enemy tank doesn't have their abilities up, otherwise, gear for the situation. If you don't have a gunner and they do, its fairly easy to see who wins that one.
    • Up x 3