so the PTS stuff went live...

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Liewec123, Mar 20, 2019.

  1. pnkdth


    Such are the times. xD
    • Up x 1
  2. Valenz

    This brings about a small change in the premise that the NC MAX is "invulnerable" however. He really isn't, instead, just like the heavy, he just pops an extra health meter in front of him that can be depleted and thus, once used up, he needs to wait out the corresponding time to get it back. Furthermore, as you kindly point out, the shield itself happens to have blind spots, so even if the NC MAX makes an attempt to shield himself from incoming fire (courtesy of 6~12 rounds magazines) it is not guaranteed to actually protect him as he tries to get back into the fight, a.k.a reloading while being fired upon.

    In light of this, I find it impossible to declare the NC MAX shield a commodity when in reality both TR and VS MAXes can and will soak that first, full clip...without sacrificing anything for it.

    Define "unfairly". Consider for a moment what the NC MAX is now required to be/use to remain serviceable.
    • Up x 2
  3. JibbaJabba

    Dude, I'm having doubts about your Aegis knowledge.
  4. Valenz

    You're giving me doubts about it. If it wasn't obvious already. Where is this "invulnerability" notion of yours coming from?
  5. pnkdth


    Stop trying to make all of this about it being "invulnerable." You know perfectly well what he means and is just using semantics to derail the discussion so the rest of us won't see that you effectively are saying because VS/TR does not have the shield this is actually better because you can potentially get around the AEGIS shield.

    Couple with the tried and true argument that NC does not have the same level of sustainability, forgetting its massive alpha and DPS it lays down between reloads which having access to the shield for protection. You don't need sustained fire when everyone lies broken and dead on the floor.

    Further, add to that the performance metric favor NC MAX units. The usual counter to this usually is "NC MAX units are only good up close or at close medium range." Well, when you think 99% of people pull their MAX units. Precisely, for those scenarios where the NC MAX just so happens to be the best of them all. Very few VS/TR players will actually use their MAX after a MAX crash/Bio farm/similar unless they really have to.

    In other words, stick to the point or I'm just going to assume you have none.
    • Up x 2
  6. JibbaJabba


    It's called hyperbole and can be used to stress a point. Of course a max getting shot in the butt would take damage but I count on my reader to have sense and not nitpick so an intelligent conversation can proceed. For **practical** purposes a NC Max can reload mid duel and not take damage. If they try to use it to turtle beyond mere reloading then enemies will start poking at the gaps.

    I didn't sense you were using hyperbole when you said the shield can be depleted though. You compared it to a heavy overshield as if they were similar?? I've had an overshield drop on me only once in all years of playing. It was during a phalynx push across a powerhouse/crescent bridge and it took more that a squad to bring it down. Even then we made it 3/4 across the bridge.
    • Up x 1
  7. Valenz

    Except it's not really like that at all. The damage done to the shield is directed at his ability gauge which in turn is supposed to go down in proportion to the damage it takes. I do remember a time when the shield was bugged and didn't take any damage but it later got fixed into receiving damage again which is why it confuses me when you talk about it like the damage it takes is just voided into nothingness entirely...just trying not to be biased here...

    They do share similarities, but I did not say they were identical, you're smart right? You know the difference.

    Still I find myself giggling about this exchange, didn't think it would cause this much recoil.

    Also, I'd like to ask a question of my own:

    Am I to understand that it's all going to be okay for the NC MAX? Because it has Aegis?
    • Up x 1
  8. Liewec123

    no, it had burst yes but at the cost of long reloads and a fraction of the sustained fire,
    and very VERY limited range (now that slugs are removed.)
    thats 3 steep tradeoffs for the burst potential.

    what have they done? nerfed the damage to similar (though even lower) than TR and VS.
    and yet they still have no range and a fraction of the sustained fire,
    they are worse than TR and VS in literally every way.
    far less range, far less sustain and even less cqc damage.

    that is not balance.
    • Up x 2
  9. Trephanation

    VS Max is great now. Thanks, Daybreak!

    Launchers are garbage now against tanks. Boo, Daybreak!
  10. ridicOne

  11. Campagne

    "This person I agree with is the only voice of reason." --pnkdth
    • Up x 1
  12. LodeTria


    Since you bought up harassers, the vulcan (a common noob-complaint weapon), can now only 1 mag Magriders (or prowlers, lol) if they have EX mags upgrade & if they are within licking distance. They cannot 1 mag Vanguards at all.

    The rear armour buff also made every other non main tank cannon weapon weaker at the rear, the halberd for example taking 7 shots to back-shot a vanguard.
  13. TR5L4Y3R

    ... that wall of text is not helpfull ...
  14. Clipped!

    I simply cannot agree more with the excellent points by Liewec123, Lord Krelas, and Demigan.

    A) harassers can already shred lightnings from the front and a bit of side are now super tanky against lightnings (which are their main intended counter aside from tank mines) and that means that good tanker who actively rotates their tank to minimize rear damage with an AP lightning cannot manage to kill a short to mid range harasser with one missed tank shell in the mix before they set them on fire. Need I remind you that harassers both cost less than half the nanites of a lightning to pull (150 vs 350), and are NOT meant to be armor, but instead light and fast weaponized transports. There's a reason they're referred to as a "(hostile) transport vehicle" when spotted. Combine that with the fact that harassers can simply retreat to safety to repair faster than lightnings makes it a hazard for low health lightnings to chase even without the rear jocky seat repairs before it got buffed. Harrassers simply didn't need any buffs, let alone changes from their pre 3-20-19 update state.

    Verdict: Are you serious? Because if so get your head checked. These are clearly not balanced changes.


    B) Tomcat pods were already a less option effective option than the coyote missiles except for less experienced pilots who can fly, but have difficulty aiming/hitting other ESF pilots, and even then the more experienced pilots prefer to use their nosegun in A2A fights.

    Verdict: uncalled for and not needed, especially so unless you want to only have aces in the skies and no way for newbs to do something meaningful with aircraft other than to serve as flying cert packages or troop transports.


    C) Things that were immediate red flags for the NC MAX weapon changes:

    NCM1 Scattercannon
    • Damage range from 130 @ 8m - 50 @ 18m to 125 @ 8m to 35 @ 20m - Not a single shotgun has less than a minumim 50 damage per pellet except for pre-nerf grinder which had 45, the tengu multi-SMG has 36, pump actions and full autos have 50, and baron/extended mag @ 67
    • Pellets per shot from 6 to 5 -Thats a sixth less damage and plenty of a nerf by itself
    • Refire rate from 333ms to 500ms -That's from 3 shots per second to 2, barely faster than a pump action, and all other shotguns have a fire rate of at least 3.3 rps 120 vs 200-220. Now if this weapon had the power of a pump action the low RPS would be ok, but it doesn't nor did it have anything close to a pump action's per shot damage.
    AF-34 Mattock
    • Pellets per shot from 6 to 3 - that alone just halved this gun's damage. Biggest nerf I've ever seen
    AF-41 Hacksaw
    • Damage range from 125 @ 8m - 45 @ 18m to 75 @ 8m - 25 @ 15m - again, a minimum damage of less than 50 is way too low to be even considered a feasibly balanced changed
    • Pellets per shot from 6 to 5 - again, that's a sixth less damage and plenty of a nerf by itself
    AF-23 Grinder
    • Damage range from 130 @ 8m - 50 @ 18m to 50 @ 8m - 20 @ 20m
    • Refire rate from 333ms to 500ms - again, the low fire rate isn't properly coupled with the shotgun's per shot strength, and as a result is comparatively very under-powered within it's effective range.
    Verdict: Is... is this for real? Because these changes are insanely heavy, laughably underpowered, and nowhere near viable. These must be ether a joke or someone has gotten rage quit computer destruction mad. There's no way these could or should make it to live. And if they did the backlash would be huge and the devs would be ridiculed and hated.
    Plenty of you may already know the phrase "NC MAXes have no range" and this phrase is never more than true now as you might a well be MAX punching. That phrase is also paramount to how an NC MAX survived before the 3-20-19 update or someone with a shotgun survives. You are ether in effective range and start shooting or if out of effective range you get to cover unless you want to die as shotguns sacrifice range and fire rate for damage, and if they only function as extended knife range lead lanuchers, they aren't even worth using. Post 3-20-19, the effective range of NC MAXes' is now 2-4x melee where as every other shotgun is 4-8x melee at the very least.
    • Up x 4
  15. Demigan

    Great that you use my link properly and check the other worlds as well! Also have a good read at this bit:


    This is what we call "context". The underlined part serves two purposes.

    1. To que in the reader that the link provided can be used to check out more worlds. This allows them to check up on the stats of other worlds as well like you've done.
    2. To inform the reader that I did not cherry-pick and that this can be checked, and to inform them of the status-quo. IE the NC MAX is (still) behind.
    So your response of "cherry-picking" is quite ridiculous. Also considering that the NC MAX's on Miller were doing the best of all servers at the time I wrote that post (and still worse than the VS and TR) I expect that their stats took a dive by the time you checked up on it to call it cherry-picking.
    Also at this moment the NC is still behind on all servers thank you very much.
    • Up x 1
  16. pnkdth


    Scenario: The changes went live whether you agree with them or not (I have some issues with them).
    Course of action 1) complain on the forums and hope everything you've said suddenly makes a difference 2) play the game and give constructive feedback.

    He is advocating for option 2 with given the circumstances seem a lot more reasonable and likely to have any kind of impact.

    Or you can just keep participating the NC drum circle here.
  17. DeadlyOmen

    Arbitrary changes are impossible to understand.
  18. Trebb

    I have no real VS Max experience, but a lot of TR and some NC max time.

    As a TR main I think us and NC maxxes are way too good at AV stuff. With lockdown+pounders, I can clear everything out close by. Stuff further away? Switch to Lockdown+fracture for nearly pinpoint accuracy at render range, giving up only some DPS.

    I'm curious to see how the NC max changes pan out. CQC a well played NC max was always cancer, shields up while reloading they're the toughest max to take down.

    I'm glad they pushed the changes out, I was on hiatus just knowing this was in the pipeline but still dying to them :p
  19. JibbaJabba

    You're welcome to understand whatever you want. Just don't try to straw man and act like what you say is what I said just because it's vaguely similar.

    I'll discuss with others but I'm pretty much done talking to you. You're tiresome.
  20. JibbaJabba


    And in that vein, I gave it a try last night.

    I did not have any *good* max vs max encounters so I can't comment there.

    NC Max vs infantry though was bearable. The instagib is gone, I don't care what it says on paper. You're going to be using up some portion of a clip on a target now. The mattocks working at range is a joke now. It again feels much worse than what I expected based on the change notes. Up close though, you're still gonna get kills, and it's still very much a Max. You can lead charges with it, you can point hold with it.

    Jury is still out for me. I'll need more runs and I'll need some max v max. So far though the sky has not fallen.