A thank you where it is due. (Magriders)

Exposed, easily hit and extremely limited movement options. All factors which considerably reduces the life expectancy of a tank driver and crew. The latter being key for a Magrider to avoid death. I would also argue that due to the limited use the Magfart this ability has been reduced quite a bit already. Harassers are the true kings (and actually a potent threat) in these situations.

Basically, when this happens it is because the entire base is so safe to navigate the base has already fallen to spawn camping (and it is probably going to be stuck there...).

Demi, this is why I know you do not comprehend what you read. In the BEGINNING I did not bother with them because I did not really see the use in them being largely ANTI shotgun in games. In Destiny they have a Fusion Rifle, In Call of Duty, the Skarr. Armored Core, Laser Blades took care of Close up fighting better than any shotgun could dream, in a million years. They turned out to be the missing piece in my bag of tricks and treats here however. And yes, I have enjoyed countless success with them ever since I picked them up.

How on Earth is anyone dumb enough to ask if I was referring to a SURVEY or a SHOTGUN when I said Battle Rank 100 A.S.P.s curse my name. WHY WOULD ANYONE CURSE ANYONE'S NAME OVER A FLIPPING POLE?! HOW would they even KNOW about random questions I ran by Family, extended or otherwise while we are playing? It is not like you can actively chat with someone trying to kill you.... Even if you manage to say a few words, they are likely shooting your rear off your hips, whilst collecting certs off of you. At which point they would be HAPPY..... COME ON! Context clues..... You are lucky it is Christmas time. I will forgive that silliness....

If Cam. asked your advice on ANYTHING, I relish coming across him on the battlefield. Easy money if he actually heeded it. Hahaha!
Forgive me, if you play like you talk, you go negative unless you take a few years sitting somewhere trying to sniper netting a few kills per session, or LIVE in a Max.

And as for story time? It is called experience kid, you should learn to value it. Do so and one day you might actually learn something other that how to misunderstand some of the best grammar to grace this forum in years.

MERRY CHRISTMAS EVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SAAAAAAA-TA CLAUSE IS COMIN' TA TAOoOWN!!!!
SAAAAAAA-TA CLAUSE IS COMIN' TA TAOWN!!!!

SAN-TA-CLAUSE IS-COMIN'....... TO TOOowoWOoOwn!!!!! --M.J.

Amen. I will also add, I have NEVER seen a Magrider get on a building and stay there during ANY kind of fight in my entire life of playing this game. Of the 2 I have seen on a building, One got right down after being hit with 2 Decimators, and the other flipped itself like a sad little turtle........ And died. Building and Base hopping is something you grow out of as a Magrider Driver. It is just not practical.... It may have been at one time, (I do not see how....) but not anymore.

I comprehend it better than you think. For example even in this post you continue your campaign of "I'm god with shotguns", just like in the last post you boasted about how your greatest successes were with shotguns. But in this paragraph you talk about how CQC combat is the missing piece in your bag of tricks and treats. Which in conjunction with the previous sentences of older games where your play was enriched by CQC weapons means that you miss the power of the CQC combat in PS2. Something something reading comprehension?

Well I came to that conclusion by... Reading, reading the grammar more specifically. You never mention shotguns before that, so all the this's and that's refer to the previous mentions of survey's and polls (not pole's, polls. Although I guess there's some merit in hitting people with a stick every now and then to get the right answer). Additionally you use one paragraph, so there's no signal that you moved on to another subject, IE shotguns. Add to that the absolutely weird twists and turns, such as confusing GPU capability with CPU capability, and thinking that you might use surveys to make people curse your name isn't that far fetched. Hell I would curse your name if you kept trying to poll me (or my family. "On a scale of one to five, how did you like me attempting to kill you?". "Eh, surveys are better off without a middle-option, use scales with even numbers".

Yes COME ON, context clues. use them.

"Oh forgive me for insulting you with bullcrap and trying to make you look bad for everyone else". Are you really that daft? Also learn to play man, you apparently haven't yet.

Your story time so far has had only a ghost of a connection to the subject matter. Also considering how your story time is always about how godlike you are supposed to be (while you can't even drive a Magrider properly, and admit to driving a Vanguard terribly without even using your shield in a lame attempt to try and make the Vanguard look supa-dupa) these storytimes are just tangent's on the rest of the "discussion", for want of a better word.

I hope he doesn't hit you with the bag of cole he'll bring you for talking crap so much...

Actually, it makes for a matter of opinion. In my opinion, the Spiker is much better. The Repeater is very unwieldy, where its strengths lie in the RoF and longer bursts. It only maintains the advantage in CQC when the trigger pulled like there's no tomorrow, which leaves worsening bloom and recoil with a quickly decreasing magazine. Inversely, the other three ES burst pistols are more more controllable even while firing at as close to their respective maximum fire rates as they can achieve. All burst pistols can be very effective, but each has its distinctions.

More people use the Spiker because it's the default. Virtually all default weapons see the most use.

Exactly my point. LMGs are heavy-specific yet are not classified as "heavy weapons." They are not the same.

Again, Magscatter to Blackhand. """"Apples"""" to """"apples.""""

I find them to pretty much equal to the task, i.e. handling themselves at close range. That said the Repeater is more of a mag-dumper whereas the other factions have a bit more control attached to them but TR gotta DAKKA! Like you say, that's where opinion/preference comes in.

Also, a little-known fact, if you listen to Billy Idol - Rebel Yell your LA8 Rebel will deal 200% more damage and your bonus checks are twice as frequent. 100% confirmed!

None of that changes the fact that this is only something the Magrider can do. (of the three MBTs)
LA has many of the same risks when running around on rooftops. Still, the option to run around on those rooftops is an advantage to the class. That's why making LA as tanky as HA would be a serious mistake without removing its mobility options.

Magriders got speed increase to bring them closer to other tanks - now they are just as fast as some other tanks stock options AND can strafe and scale hills and get onto buildings, even biolab landing pads, unless that's just pure cheaters, but then why not prowlers? When in trouble there is mag boost or whatever it's called to disappear as quickly as harasser.
These are most privileged land vehicles in the game.

Never said it did. My point is that its usefulness is being blown out of proportion where it is now apparently comparable to the light assault... Did not see that one coming.

There is preference, and cold hard facts. What it boils down to is overall damage per clip and how fast it can produce said damage. I prefer rifles and Machine Guns, however the fact is a Shotgun far and away out damages any rifle out there with ease. It is up to me as a player to learn to tame the shotgun to take advantage of the fact that it is the most powerful. You have to often adapt to take advantage of the most powerful weapons in the game.

This is the same thing regarding the Rate Of Fire of the Repeater. The repeater has a lower single hit damage sure, but the fact still remains that it can dump it's ammo the fastest. The gun able to do the most damage in the shortest amount of time resulting in a kill is the most powerful weapon. It is up to the player to tame the gun if they want to take advantage of the deadliest weapon.

In a reserve situation, the repeater comes out on top because whatever target you were shooting at should have like 10% health in which case you should be spraying to reduce the chance of them dodging and you missing. It does not matter about range for the most part because if they are close enough for you to think about swapping rather than hiding and reloading, an Uzi will always top a revolver. As an infiltrators weapon, range is never an issue because for the most part you climb right on top of the person to kill them. It becomes habit especially if you are a knife user. So the Repeater wins again, it can dump like no other. I would prefer the Lasher in a heads up fight, but the fact is it cannot hang with the other heavy dogs like it should.

I prefer a Witch in Destiny. And I very proficient with the class. In spite of being able to use the class better than my preference, I was not a Hunter fan (I hate capes....), however having the ability to dead stop dodge in any direction, break enemy locks, de-taunt them and cloak almost constantly allows for survival like no other. To that end, even classes as balanced as Titans, Hunters, Warlocks, have a clear factual better.

Yes. The fact of the matter is that theoretical DPS =/= applied DPS. The Repeater can pump out more rounds but each round is less likely to hit compared to another burst pistol.

If pistols were only capable of being used as emergency backup weapons a single good shot from a Commissioner would be better. Why spam and miss half of it when a single shot does the damage needed, cleaner and more reliably?

Range is quite an important factor for any weapon and certainly still for infiltrators and stalkers. Can't always reach a target, and if a player has only one weapon that can be a major issue. Personally there have been many times where I could not effective return fire because my pistol was too ineffective at range. Underboss, Pilot to an extent, Magscatter... Just to name a few.

As always raw paper-DPS does not make a weapon good in practice. NS-15Ms are weak on paper yet strong in practice. There is much, much more to a weapon than just pure potential DPS.

I dunno man, free shields and instant heals on melee kill as a Titan has saved my sorry carcass more times than I care to say. However, funnily enough in Destiny 2 guns actually do matter more. A good gun replaces the need for abilities.

I never said pistols could not be used as anything else. However they were designed to be used as a backup primarily. Anytime you try to force an object outside of its intended role, you are welcoming disaster. There are plenty of times I am out of range to properly return fire, that is a day in the life of a stalker. The skill and fun of the class is to either find a way to get them in range to be stabbed or sprayed on or to lure them to you. The Repeater can keep up with primaries in its intended range.
As far as paper goes, I have to disagree. What messes people up is misreading the information on the paper. All games have Trap weapons in it. However, for those who read and take a little time to calculate and compare how many bullets can be painted upon a target in a set amount of time, these weapons are easily identified. Granted there are some that I just think the shown stats are bogus, the Commissioner being the main one... For those you just have to test them out to see where they stand,
but if you know the how to solve the D.P.R. X R.O.F. Paper and a keen eye are all you need. I agree, if damage were all you needed then the Lasher would be the dominating force on the battle field. It actually does the most damage per shot among the rifles. However since it shoots so slow and sprays like a cat in heat, it fails itself, Vanu, and sometimes even people who are not even thinking about it. **Friendly Fire Engaged!** **Dog steps up to drinking bowl (standing in for actual Lasher who is out with a sore throat) and begins to lap with VIGOR!!!** SLOP-SLOP-SLOP-SLOP-SLOP--!!! (I'M HELPING DADDY!!!") --Random young Vanu Soldiar. 4 dead friends and 1 injured enemy later..... "How did he kill me?" Literally any other gun can beat it in a head to head fight, making it, even on paper, the worst gun in the game.

What messes people up is misreading the information on the paper. All games have Trap weapons in it. But for those who read and take a little time to calculate and compare how many bullets can be painted upon a target in a set amount of time, these weapons are easily identified. Granted there are some that I just think the shown stats are bogus, the Commissioner being the main one... For those, sure you need to test them out to see if they are any better or worse that advertised.

There is a Helmet I only use for emergencies called the WormHusk Crown It heals you with every dodge. The way I am set up, I do not die unless I am playing "I reaaaaally do not care.." loose. Yet I can pull triple digit kills in Strikes, Nightfalls, and Raids over even Witches and Warlocks. With that said, they are all still pretty well balanced, but the ease I can breeze through a stage and clear a room, just boggles the mind. I can hop right in the middle of the enemies, and (The only other character I can only do this with is my Witch however I cannot--) lure them wherever I want, then de-taunt them and kill the entire room... Santa got me what I needed to start editing and posting Videos so I aim to do so, so you can see just what I mean. Cloak is always better than healing or even a shield when it comes to survival. "No Damage taken is the Best damage taken." Add healing TO it and you have a nightmare on your hands.

As an avid pistoleer, I defy you and your narrow-minded expectations of pistols. Few pistols can't keep up with decent aim, and any of them can still kill with greater skill.

No, this is just not true. Sure, some weapons are not designed very well or intuitively, but often they tend to serve a different purpose than one might expect. But even so, just because a weapon is bad does not make it a "trap."

Allow me to reiterate. What matters isn't necessarily the number of shots leaving the barrel in a given time frame but rather the weapons ability to use those rounds effectively. The Repeater spams and misses, while a Spiker controls the fire and gives the rounds a chance.

Who can't? Like I said, a good gun is what matters most. Can ya' kill the bullet sponges? If yes, congratulations. If not, the class doesn't matter. There's also something to be said about the ease and simplicity of any given playstyle. Why go through all that effort when y' can just shoot the enemy like normal and melee anything that gets close for free health and overshields. Game is really quite simple.

Defy and fight against the death of sun all you want, it does not change the fact that I am right. Hahaha! Understand, every bullet that leave the gun is usable. It is up to the player to MAKE them usable if you are just outside of knife range range within those 5 meters you do not really even have to aim to sink every round into your target. Now, I know what you are thinking: "Well by that logic, the Lasher should STILL reign supreme, right?" Wrong. The Lasher can only be used so close to compensate for spray before the guns blast radius starts to damage the user, every little chip is a bullet less your enemy has to land, this prevents the gun form being able to properly compensate for all of its flaws.

Pistols. Now THIS is where bias comes in at. You just like pistols, and since you have a little skill at using them, your take on reality is now warped. Believe me.. I have been there. At one point, you could not tell me a Grenade Launcher in Destiny was not the most powerful and best Heavy weapon available. To this day the majority of the community there says Grenade Launchers are the hardest to aim and get kills with. A pistol (Regardless of how well you aim) is not going to beat a shotgun unless the shotgun is not shooting. It will not beat a rifle if it is out of the pistols 10 meter range, unless the rifle does not see it. The Commissioner MIGHT be able to operate a tad outside of it's range, but even then, the time it takes for the commissioner to reset to ready, unless you dodge the rifles shots, it will get plated. At the end of the day, sure you may be able to use different weapons outside of their zones, but make no mistake, it is still worse than weapons intended to be used in that area. And example of this is the Ecto-blaster. I LOVE THAT GUN!!! I can get kills with it being used as my primary weapon, that does not make it a good weapon. Hahaha!

A bad weapon that tricks the player into thinking it is a good weapon with a glaring high-point is a "Trap" weapon. There are a lot of them in Planetside 2. Skill on an even playing ground, leaves these weapons lacking.

Finally, the reason to go through all of that, is to maximize killing efficiency, and is the difference between average players scoring 60-100 kills a match and those who score 150-200 on average. This translates you being able to hold do far more in the way of defending your team while they work problems that may involve relics that arise. The lowest score I got this month was a 100, during an 8 minute speed run on the Dam. My teammates scored 24 and like 40. This was on my Huntress. Yes the Titan has it's perks but all of them are built for defense. You can force them into an offensive stance, but all in all, you are most likely to lock down a Titan, because most of their healing depends on kills. Choosing anything but the towering barrier will not fully prevent damage, this is necessary for you to be able to regenerate enough to continue your assault. A good gun can definitely save your life, but unless you know how to make your weapons synergise with your class, to a science, average is all you will be able to muster. Yes the game has a simple feel, but it has a very advance undertone for the advanced to figure out. Commanders? Absolutely! My Huntress has zero problems bringing down big game. In fact I believe given the nature of Hunters it is actually far easier to bring down Bullet Sponges as you say, with them. End-game Commanders were never a problem with them, it was mobs of enemies that truly challenged Huntress and Hunters, thanks to having the WORST Grenades in the game.... The strongest grenades are built for single Guardian Player targets...

Noooooo, L.A.s are very small targets, can get where they are going MUCH faster and for the most part, unless they open fire can barely be seen or noticed. Not the case with a shed size hovering Crab-Beetle. Due to its's shape you cannot even confuse it with a piece of structure at a distance. So saying it is something that nothing else can do amounts to saying T.R.s Prowlers is shaped different. This allows it to hide in small sink holes, at the end of the day, the tank cannot stay in that sink hole. However at least the Prowler can use that to its benefit... As it can remain in that hole until someone sees it.

I will say nothing (More) of becoming Liberator chow on the roof of a building.

You could not be more wrong. Fire a repeater full-auto at 10 meters and most shots will not hit any competent opponent. Within 5 meters there is still room for error.

What's with your obsession with the Lasher? And how terrible does one have to be to hit themselves with their own Lasher fire?

At this point in time I've aurax'd seven different pistols and have hundreds of kills with a few others as well. Believe me, I know how effective pistols can be. Some of them outright beat primaries.

The only way a player could be tricked into thinking a weapon was better than it is would be to not even bother to read the stats. At best a player might think a gen II pump-action is better than it is, but if players bothered to read the information they shouldn't ever have any major issues. If nothing else, that's what Koltyr and the VR are for, on top of weapon trials.

Yeah, but once again class doesn't matter if your gun does the work. With Thunderlord I sometimes don't even use a single ability because it's just a point and click weapon with very little requirements. Or a rampage triple-tap scout rifle, click click click everyone's dead and they couldn't even hit me from that far. It's all about them GUNS SON.

Happens all the time if you use any half cover with the thing, like railings atop triple stacks, those engineer deployables or the gun-floor railings in tech plants. It's mostly cus the bullet is larger han standard guns.

Surely one would only ever hit himself a few times before learning where and when to not shoot.

Okay I will address that last statement first. Thunderlord? You must be joking right... There are much, MUCH more effective weapons out there. Yes it is a good one, but I am sorry I have encountered literally not a soul that uses it right, and that is why I crush their score 2 fold. Weapons are only half the equation. And those that lean only on 1 or the other will fall short, the game makes sure of that. As for your Scout rifle theory; sure you go on ahead and think that you can sit there and sniper more enemies than I can out right kill using well placed Grenade and a Fusion Rifle. See, people that use your style of play against me, Score in the 30's while I break 200 on them. And because of this I either get Praise Mail or Hate Mail both of which I call Trophies. On rare occasions I lose friends because my destructive nature is confused with kill stealing. (If I have already killed everything on MY SIDE of the room; me killing half or all of your enemies to help you is NOT stealing!) Still, even among those who strictly depend on weapons, most have no clue what a Stand-Alone weapon is. Sadly this adds to a second side-affect: Depending completely on their weapons, means they have no clue how to set up their armor with Mods or even CHOOSE the armor best suited for their load-out. And that is why still to this date 90% of the players you see are not fully Masterworked.

My obsession with the Lasher is it is a weapon that should be equal to the other heavy weapons. At the moment it is a waste of space in our inventory, all the while I hear T.R.'s Popcorn Maker and N.C.'s Triple Shot True Thunder Lord, (Destiny's Gun should have been called the "Lightning Lord" as it USES ELECTRIC ) going off every encounter. If you are not hitting yourself, you are not using it, nor are you getting kills with it regularly. The sound alone attracts at least 2 friendly new players and draws then to stand in front of you every 10 seconds of use. Another 3 average will try to run through your line of fire exploding round after round on you and them. Then, upset at the fact that you did NOT stop shooting and allow the enemy to kill you, they will attempt a team kill. Tria also has a great point about cover messing you over, thanks to how wildly the gun starts to spray with those massive rounds.

Lastly, V.R. and Koltyr are the PRIMARY place you get trapped into buying weapons that are no good. You are shooting NAKED unequipped dolls and equipment, So a pistol or turret that might clock in with a kill time decently, needing say.... 3 shots to kill a target to the body, will wind up requiring 5 or 6 on an actual island. (On side B of the C.D. That is also how people come to the conclusion that a DECENT weapon is too powerful. The Starfall would VAPORIZE an unequipped tank standing still so all shots hit the weak point.... This lead to people crying it was overpowered when in reality, against a properly built tank, it was somewhere between average and good. Now the Starfall is worthless thanks to it's slow reload and crushing Cloak penalties...) Koltyr was just recently opened up to all, but even then, you can only equip Implants that you have already Maxed out to 5, so depending on what people run the damage math can still be corrupted. I have already said, a keen eye looking at the paper will allow you to differentiate good from bad with ease. The issue is most people do not read nor do they take Rate Of Fire or recoil into consideration. People want balance within the weapon, not realizing that in itself, is a trap.

Absolutely yes Thunderlord! Chain-headshot the boss and the lightning bolts kill all the minions. Headshot the minions and lightning bolts strike the boss ad kill other minions. Very controllable recoil with a large magazine and high damage with long range and solid accuracy. Thanks to Killfeed reloads are quite quick as well. If not for ammo I would literally never need anything else.

As per usual, skills in Destiny 2 just don't matter if the gun in your hands kills on its own. Taking class way too seriously. Furthermore, is players don't know how to properly mod their armour they're not competent players. There aren't exactly a large number of viable options, and if a player can't pick any that would be fun or useful I doubt they'll manage to do well with abilities regardless of class. The game is about the grind, not much more to it than that.

Once again, it's not equal because it's not the same thing. It's equal in the same sense that a Magrider is equal to a Vanguard, but not as a gold Commissioner is to a platinum Commissioner. You are asking for two to equal three. They do similar things in different ways, if you don't like the things they do or the way the Lasher does it, too bad.

Hilariously, the VR is the very last place where one ought to be mislead. Understand the concept that anyone with anything can kill a stationary target from point blank in a stress-free environment and the illusion falls. Fire at distant targets and strafe. Fire long bursts, short bursts, full-auto, anything other than mindlessly pointing at a target dummy. Any failure to understand the base mechanics of a weapon in testing is through one's own fault.