Can we finally level NC to TR and VS standards?

My NC alt is up to 87 now. It's not like I live in a bubble. I've built my opinion of the Phoenix from using it. Same with every other thing I criticize in this game.

Overall, I think the Striker's ability to shut down air on the fly is more valuable, but the Phoenix is incredibly good, and a very close 2nd. The new Lance just doesn't hold a candle to those 2.

I hate to say it but it really doesn't seem like it. There are just too many common spots to park a sundy where the Phoenix just can't hit it, and when it can it doesn't have the DPS to actually do anything.

Decimator all the way to the cert bank!

NC are certainly powerful opponents on Cobalt atm but it varies a bit according to time of day and day of the week, in my experience. VS aren't too shabby either...........levelling my TR alt can be a bit hard going.

I think you mean imbalance of forces? All sides can pull a large armour column if they want. I've seen VS do it many times in particular.

tbh I only ever see one or two when I'm playing and if I am on the opposing side I park my vehicle hard up against the other side of a rock or building so they can't turn it enough to hit. Every tactical move has a counter-move in my view. And I could be wrong but I don't think Max shields protect against explosives (of which there are more than plenty in big fights).

I only play infantry myself (engineer main) so all tanks and Maxes of all factions are a PITA for me but they tend to run away if you can hit them enough times with an Archer. I agree though, that the reduced range of the AT mana turret is a disappointment though I have just had the Jockey implant drop so I am looking forward to trying it out when I have levelled it up.

Hello, thank you. You seem to suffer from Acute Forum Warrior Syndrome. Don't worry, some vets to this game tend to do that.

Try actually read what people wrote and do it yourself. Yes, you can actually do that as well. That will show you that it's possible to launch unharmed from spawn room and rocket won't change direction if they are aimed on target already, just player loses countrol - thus rendering your DPS theory completely pointless. Coll huh.
Now imagine that Squad of NC Phoneix heavies with strikers or launchers instead - they'd have to leave their spawnroom shields behind and get in direct sight of enemy vehicles and soldiers. That would be actually scary for them!

No look up the stats of the tanks, then you'll see the vanguard has more hitpoints and with his ability much greater resistance. That probably doesn't align with your narrative, but don't worry, you'll find other thing to declare NC is perfectly fine.
Shotgun pistol only has small range probably?

Yeah, of all the things that need a nerf(or compareable stuff in other factions a buff) Phoenix is maybe on rank 5 or 6. NC Max, Vanguard, Striker and Harassers are definitely more important cause they are much more used. It's possibly in one line with Fury/Starfall(which got a nerf now) and Airhammer...it can be abused but is nothing you hit on more than once or twice per hour.

I'm playing Engineer myself, thus I noticed these things. The Vanguard without a doubt is the strongest MBT in a 1:1 battle. Used in masses, as I've seen it several times with an approaching NC Zerg, the material superiority amplifies and even the same amount of vehicles can't successfully counter it.

Try out the Esamir bases which i've described above. You can't counter something that you can't kill, and behind spawn room shields, you can't kill anyone.

The greatest difference I've noticed though are the Maxes. NC Maxes are state of the art with their shield and shotgun weaponry, whereas VS Maxes fare rather poorly. They come with an pretty much useless anti-infantry weapon that is simple horrible and an low damage, low velocity but rather accurate antitank weapon as standard. There are upgrades, but they clearly fall behind other factions Max armements like the Raven. As already mentioned, the special ability of VS maxes is the suicide button.

I think you give the NC content more credit than it's due. Both the other factions win 12% more than NC which is indicative of an overall faction wide balance issue. Everyone complains about the Vanguard even though the Prowler outperforms both other faction MBT's by a wide margin. The Reaver has great DPS, but have you ever watched an ESF league? Nobody flies reavers, and those who do get knocked out in the prelim's because it just has poor all around performance. The best thing the Reaver has going for it is its afterburners, which nobody uses because they're effectively obsolete. The NC nose guns all have lower KPH than the other factions, with the Banshee M14 having a ludicrous +40 KPH, or the Light PPA +42 KPH (compared to the highest KPH of the Kestrel at +17). The Phoenix also leaves a lot to be desired because of its reload delay mechanic, very strong when abused in numbers (but then what isn't), but on its own nothing more than an annoyance. The only thing i can agree with you on as an objective strength is the the NC MAX is the best, but nobody ever runs them because they require coordinated team play; nobody is going to spend 450 nanites for a single assault attempt.

It's a teamwork/skill thing. Sorry.

Look, I won't pick this apart. It's clear you're just regurgitating things you've heard. All I can say is that your opinion will change if you ever really start flying.

Also note that I said the Reaver has the highest potential. I think the Mossy is the easiest to learn in, and the Scythe is best for most players in a 1v1. But if you can shoot, absolutely nothing kills quicker than a Reaver. And if everyone on both sides can shoot, the Reaver's advantage really starts stacking. But that's the key, you have to be good to take advantage of it, so that ESF is a double edged sword for NC.

Aye, I guess that says it best doesn't it? I have the Phoenix and I have certainly gorged upon the delicious cheese. But... when it comes time to get things done, not a one of my primary loadouts has the Phoenix in it. A Decimator is what I usually reach for when I have to go sundy hunting.

NC has the worst ESF(biggest hitbox from front) and the worst AV weapons.
TR Striker is a lot better than phoenix since it can also kill aircraft without any locking. Also phoenix has 300m range limit.
Enforcer is nowhere near saron or gatekeeper, it underperforms.
VS has weapons without bullet drop, also a scout riffle with infinite ammunition and zero bullet drop.You guys have easy
farming tools like Lasher x2 while NC's heavy gun just sucks. Every faction has its benefits.

Sure can! .... have you at all considered that maybe it's just..


....your Server?

(this is connery btw, = one of the 2 highest pop servers = fairer sampling size for all balance arguments)

I have played all 3 factions extensively now (80+ on all and 51 ASP on NC) and I find it laughable that the phoenix is whats called out as OP. That thing is so niche, it is outclassed by the other two by a large margin. Out of the 3 faction specific launchers, the lancer is by far the most versatile and lethal, only requiring a much higher level of skill to reach its full potential. I have bagged so many ESFs with it now, I can't believe I spent so much time with the striker, which can easily be countered with flares/LOS and experienced pilots have almost no issue with it. The strong point of the striker is using it in valks imo.

Also, if you are surrounding a base with vehicles and just sitting there waiting for cap (common behavior on Connery), you deserve to get your *** pheonix'd.

I'm really not to sure about the prowler here. Look, I don't want to take this off topic, but let's just say, I strongly disagree with you about where the prowler stands, especially right now.

actually the TV Guided missile is very difficult to aim... loud as a low flying f16 (just had one buzz me at 700 ft the other day about jumped out of my skin) and the projectile is huge about the size as an infantryman... so it gets caught on stuff... oh and it can be shot down... its only effective against stationary or dumb people... and i've only ever seen it used in 2 niche roles... spawn room shots and when fired from rumble seats....its the hardest hitting but still weakest of the empire specific rockets mostly due to its slow rate of fire... the user sacrifices all their senses for just flying the thing for a max range of 300m and yes its dmg is pretty good for a rocket but for all the skill required to actually hit a target ... luck is the largest factor. now if you want to bash a faction specific rocket... let's talk about the Vanu's shoulder fire laser gun and the TR no need to aim striker... just kidding... you should trial these weapons so you can see just how nerfed all of them are... each one is meant to be a unique tool with a sick feel but they are strongest when used in numbers... and way more people use and abuse the striker and w/e that vanu version are called... remember if you are being killed by these weapons... don't be stupid... change your tactics... heck runup to them and use an annihilator it still 1 shots infantry (OP i demand Nerf!) hahaha. (dont nerf its meant to do that)

Irrelevant. Even if skill applied on a large scale, which it doesn't because it averages out the larger a population becomes, balance development necessitates ignoring individual skill to achieve a balance of out come. If people used NC well, then it would be dialed down. Although to be honest i'm not even sure why i'm seriously responding to such an overtly asinine comment.

I'm sorry, "git gud" is not an argument and never has been. Fact of the matter is, the Reaver performance is bottom of the barrel in almost any way you can measure it. My being able to fly or not fly has no baring on the argument. Players do not flock to the scythe in ESF tournaments for no reason. It [Reaver] has amazing alpha damage, but that's all it has (that's important), and that shows in the vehicle performance stats. Saying "it stacks up" like that is a bonus too is also redundant because this rule is universal.

You can disagree, but you'd be disagreeing with the hard data that demonstrates the very opposite of your opinion. The PS2 database shows us that the Prowler out performs the other MBT's by 15% in killing potential.

I'm not actually opposed to the suggestion that NC need to be brought into line with the other factions. It would result in a major buff to the Reaver (probably the nose gun), the Vanguard (and magrider) and to all non-shotgun/sniper rifle weapons just for a minor nerf to the NC MAX which is seldom used in general play anyway.

Hold up a second. What hard data? Sure, a prowler can out DPS a Vanguard ( by about 40%, main cannon for main cannon), but the Vanguards shield literally more then erases that potential, even with barrage in play. Look, I know what nerfing that shield would mean, but to say the Prowler with barrage is beating Vanguards in combat is horrifically mistaken. Why? Because mathematically speaking, if a prowler and vanguard have equivalent loadouts, and the vanguard uses it's ability, the prowler will lose ( barring the vanguard crew being significantly worse shots then their opponents).

At the very least, if the vanguard is pre-dis-positioned to win, at least make it so it doesn't have the potential to miss shots and still beat a perfect accuracy opponent.

You do realize that bringing the Reavers flight handling in line without nerfing its weaponry would make it the most powerful fighter in the game hands down. And if you nerf the weaponry, you basically get a mosquito clone, removing the whole point of faction diversity. Plus, the reaver seems to be doing rather well at air to ground based on the weapon KDR stats at this point, since faction air to ground versus faction air to ground, the reaver is pulling best or second best across the board.

Mosquito: http://stats.dasanfall.com/ps2/item/4906
Scythe: http://stats.dasanfall.com/ps2/item/4305
Reaver: http://stats.dasanfall.com/ps2/item/4605

Mosquito rockets: http://stats.dasanfall.com/ps2/item/4903
Reaver rockets: http://stats.dasanfall.com/ps2/item/4601
Vanu rockets: http://stats.dasanfall.com/ps2/item/4301

Look, I agree, get gud is a bad argument, but at some point, its more relevant cousin has to show up; learn to use your traits.

For whatever reason, NC attracts lone wolves, and VS attracts team oriented players. TR is a zergy mess somewhere in the middle. Saying skill averages out the larger a population becomes is true, but that also applies mostly to a homogeneous group. Saying NC and VS skill should eventually even out with more players just isn't logical. That's like saying if we had larger populations, white kids would start to do as well as Asians in school, on average. That argument ignores cultural differences, just like your in-game theory ignores faction culture.

You have a fundamental misunderstanding of air, that's where learning some basics would help you. You also need to be specific. Are you complaining about vehicle stats, or player stats? Because one is a balance issue, and the other is a git gud issue. As for vehicle stats that matter, the Reaver is in 1st place in all but one. All ESF have the exact same pitch, yaw and roll speeds. The Reaver's dps blows the competition out of the water. And if you know anything about air combat, staying in hover is everything, and the Reaver by far has the best hover speed and by far the best afterburners. Here's what's important. Most pilots can't shoot. Not through fault of their own, this game just has terrible mechanics. This means that the larger hit box of the Reaver and the smaller front hit box of the Scythe turns in to a massive difference for the average player. But, once you get to the level where you can consistently hit your targets, the Reaver goes from worst to best very quickly.

So is NC, as a whole, meant to improve their entire faction's amount of skill?
While VS & TR, not entirely built around superior-skill, do not need to have their entire faction's skill level be something they need to care about?
Is that the jist? NC' needs above-average players, while TR & VS gear is designed to be effective in the average-skill level, & go up from there?
Can NC, not be set-up, so only the top not the average player, actually is effective?
As I do hope, that's entirely not the bloody idea here.

As that means, if NC doesn't out-skill their opponent, they are dead.
If NC has the skill, their opponent can not act.
This is not a logical concept of balance, or general qualities, for an entire faction, instead of a weapon.

When your only ESF, is on average piss-poor for the average pilot, and only excelling in the hands of Aces..
For general practice, your sole aircraft in this role, is logically inferior to an aircraft that excels in the hands of an average pilot.
As what is the reliability of getting that Ace pilot when you need an ESF, over say any Average-pilot?

For vehicles;
Lets imagine, the Magrider in average hands, can not kill a soul, but in Ace Operator hands, it wipes out armor groups.
(This isn't an actual comparison, or anything related to the actual magrider, just using it as a knowable vehicle)
Now, for the average Tanker, the vehicle is useless.
For the Ace, it's a lethal killing machine.
Can your entire faction use this vehicle effectively? No.
Can your entire faction, rely on this vehicle being piloted by Aces? No.
Is the majority Aces? No. The average tanker, is Average.

If there was other options, then it could be a "more skilled option", trading 'ease of use' for 'power', without lacking any capability until that level of skill allows it to be used for any extent.
If NC's gear, is set-up, so that an Ace is dangerous, but the average user is only as good as stray lucky-rounds, or enemy tactical failure.... the faction as a whole, either as average skill will fail, or is required to have superior-skill levels across the board.
Neither VS or TR, is configured in the same way, across their Key pieces of gear.
No VS nor TR, is having to be an Ace or above-average, to wield their tool, to the intended level of operation.
Baseline gear, that has no alternatives, should not be, for one-side alone, be incredibly poor until the user is well-above-average-skill.
That is poor design, As they will be effectively on average, Inferior.
While the Aces, will be considered the "power" of the system, resulting in consecutive balance passes.
Lowering the average effectiveness, due to the absurd effectiveness at the extreme-end.

IE, did you really just say, the entire NC as a whole should be above-average skill, and be punished otherwise?

The Reaver and the 200 guns are the only examples I can think of where NC punishes average players while enabling vets.
Your Margrider is a perfect example of that same phenomenon on the VS. Meanwhile the Scythe is easy mode till you get to top tier players.
NC has those-easy mode weapons too, the Max, Vanguard, and higher rate of fire guns being examples. The Vulcan used to be TR's easy-mode weapon, and against Harassers it still is, but the Harasser/Vulcan combo has been nerfed to near uselessness against armor if you're not in a pack, same with the other factions' Harassers.
I don't know the solution. The Reaver punishes more players than it enables, same with the Saw and Magrider. We could normalize everything, but I really love asymmetrical balance. The game would be boring without it. I just hate when new players can't see the silver lining that these high skill floor platforms provide. People often get too wrapped up in the negatives.

Look, I really hate what i'm about to say, but i'm pretty sure I know what the answer is. The point is to learn, and I hate saying that.

Here's the thing. The Reaver already is performing solidly in numerous areas. If your targeting a liberator or a galaxy, it's probably the best ESF in the game. It's already the dominant ESF in air to ground, trading back and fourth with the VS on rare occasions, but consistently taking the top spot.

ESF versus ESF is its one real fault place right now. Yes, it's a glaring fault. But unless your willing to curb it's power across the board to remedy that weakness, your asking for a complete game breaker. And while I can maybe see a minor edit here or there, unless your ready to start making some trades, I don't exactly see any good reason to be buffing the reaver.

And I know where your coming from here, and I get it. However, it's strengths in other area's, and it's high potential means that it either needs to stay as is, or make some trades that hopefully won't make it a mosquito clone in the process.