I think infantry needs a slightly better counter to esf!

(maybe)

I forgot the "maybe" in the title but it wouldn't have been so pretty

If on paper, the relationship between ESFs and infantry "may-be" balanced because :

any infantry can pick anti air loadout, or pull a vehicle with anti air, or hell, pull an esf, in reality (and it's been like that for a long time, I even did a similar thread on this last year) you couldn't really call any of these a "counter".

The anti weapons may damage them a little, but they just retreat, repair, come back. Unless you're lucky to hit them with a dumbfire rocket (which is really unlikely even if they are hovering not far from the ground and hardly moving).

As to pulling a vehicle or aircraft, that would be a good counter, but it isn't really an "infantry" counter, is it?




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Ok, I admit, it's a totally biased post because I find it ridiculous to be sniped by ESFs as I desperately try tp reach the A point and save the base. I find it really ********.

Forget any potential reasonable arguments, this is just a rant born out of frustration!

ESFs do feel a tiny bit too strong in general against other air vehicles, but I'm against what CAI did to all vehicles which should be stronger versus infantry.

For dealing with ESF as infantry, the TR still have a decent advantage against close hovering or slow moving air with the Striker despite the recent nerf. For the other 2 factions, I wonder if the NS-R3 Swarm is a worthwhile alternative since the recent buff. I have neither of these weapons but am considering whether they are worth getting now.

This part is the problem in a nutshell. And the other part of the problem is also simple: vehicle and aircraft players don't want infantry to be balanced against them. Even if it's a trade-off, such as infantry requiring the same amount of nanites on average to beat and ESF or MBT, these type of players simply don't want to have a threat to their vehicle.

The Swarm didn't really get a buff - all it got was the reversal of one aspect of the CAI nerf which had made it completely useless against anything but stationary aircraft (i.e. missile flight time).

It was a meadiocre AA weapon even before the CAI changes nerfed it into the ground.

I do quite like the swarm however. I can't comment on it's effectiveness compared to other AA lockons, to me it still feels under powered and kills using it are pretty rare - but I find it more fun to use due to it's multiple missiles and variable fire mode.

What everyone has to remember,is that its not the 1v1 dynamics between any specific infantry or vehicle that matter but on what terms these forces will ACTUALLY meet on the battlefield.

Lets say we give you a faster locking or coyote like AA missile for your HA which is stronger than current options and you go against someone in their banshee/AH/PPA ESF.What will change?NOTHING.You ll be as helpless as you are now.

But this is not a game about YOU or ME or anyone else.If this new launcher is equipped by tens of HAs simultaneously,maybe the ESF in general will become obsolete and useless.(if you want that,there are other games for you)

I remember a similar,yet more laughable post from a guy who wanted to be able to take on a competent fully manned LIberator crew in his single ESF.So 1 guy +350 nanites VS 3 guys + 450 nanites and he wanted that to be an equal terms fight!

The same BROKEN mentality is behind HA shield nerf threads.

People want to be able to face EVERYTHING one on one.Its REALLY ridiculous.

Would be nice if the archer took 5 shots to kill an ESF instead of 6, I know its not made for shooting down ESF's but still its an anti material rifle it should obliterate lightly armored planes.

We?

We MuggieWara?

Are you a dev in disguise who forgot to log out his or her "gaming" accoutn?

lol

The best counter to ESFs is teamplay. If you expect to kill a force multiplayer vehicle that costed 350 nanites by your own, you better put some effort into it, otherwise it's not happening. But people don't even realize how much damage ESF can take by firearms fire. If half a dozen of soldiers would stop and focus fire on a single hovering ESF, they have high chances to shred it. Many don't realize it and ignore such opportunity. When I see a hovering ESF and I don't have dedicated AA weapon I just shoot it with my primary weapon, other see that and join me. ESF leaves the area quite quickly, in smoke, if not on fire. Quite often I've managed to take down ESFs using my MCG, cuz it has tremendous ROF and accuracy.

What about a 450 nanite Max with dedicated AA weapons and fully certed kinetic or ordnance armour - surely that should be able to come out on top in a toe to toe fight with an ESF? But it can't - not by a long way.

A free HA with packing a Decimator can OHK an ESF that goes toe to toe, yet a 450 cert Max with TWO dedicated AA weapons takes around 6 or 7 seconds to kill the same ESF.

In fact - I have tested several Max weapons and cant find anything with a TTK on an ESF that is under 6 seconds of sustained accurate fire, even dual weilded - and many can take up to 10 seconds (again dual weilded). That's an eternity when you consider the ESF can afterburn out, whilst popping fire suppression on - or can pack a single weapon that can take a full health Max out in around 1/6th of that time.

People indeed dont realize how much damage small arms do against ESF. With a 75% damage resistance against small-arms shooting it is pretty much a hail-mary of "well I cant do anything better", you are better off trying to 1v1 a MAX with a bad pistol.

Shooting an ESF with 6 dudes is still a bad idea unless it's hovering, even then it has the time to kill 2 and get out alive due to COF and muzzle velocity.
It's also a point of ridicule to ask people to use 6 dudes in teamwork against the most lone-wolf dont-need-no-teamwork vehicle in the game. Its pathetic to say "but nahnightes" as nanites are just a time resource and suggestions to make infantry use nanites to shoot down other nanites should be welcomed with open arms by you but what was the reaction against that again...?

Got me there!

I have killed MAXes with pistols. And I have killed ESFs with firearms. I do not ask other people to join me in shooting ESFs, but if they could and there are no current targets other than that ESF, it's better to shoot at it and make it retreat before it gains confidence in farming this area. Shooting an ESF with firearms also has psychological effect, all those bullet hit sounds will make pilot uneasy. They don't know what actually hits them, just firearms, other ESF or Walker. Chances that they will flee for repairs and prolly won't come back are better than doing nothing at all or do futile attempts to hit it with Rocklet or default rocket launcher.

"of you have nothing better to do"

"it's a psychological effect"

Really? So you have to "counter" a murder-machine that ignores just about every border and obstacle in the game with a PSYCHOLIGICAL EFFECT? Imagine if we made ESF costless tomorrow and allowed them to only have a psychological effect on people?

And my point about shooting a MAX with a bad pistol wasnt that it was impossible, but unlikely and not something you should use as a viable strategy. Which is the exact same as using small-arms against an ESF: not viable.

I do not propose it as hard counter. That's what G2A launchers are for. Yet still, you are an infantryman, your life costs nothing. Yet you really think that you should be able to pull a trick and obliterate a force multiplier with a snap of your fingers, if that snap would cost you nanites. Yes, you can do such trick with tanks or MAXes. But at which price and effort? How high is the risk? How many times do you actually succeed? I mean yeah, okay, if there would be an option to be able to instagib an ESF, but that would take high risk of failure and gonna cost nanites, then okay. But yet I can not fathom what kind of tool it might be.

For now I still suggest, shoot at it with everything you've got and hope for the best.

Reduce ESF's resistance to Archer and small arms. Boom, cross-faction defensive AA that doesn't reach out very far and requires moderate skill.

A force multiplier is not suppose to obliterate everything in its sight, its suppose to require skill to turn the tide of a battle but not outright win the battle based on its pure stats alone. And in what world is a fighter a force multiplier for ground forces. The fighters job is to gain air superiority so the actual force multipliers (liberator and valkyrie) can actually do their job, and since both liberator and valkyrie have been nerfed hard in their anti ground role it makes it even more ridiculous that the ESF continues to just dominate in a role it shouldn't be doing at all.

Dear person who likes to make up my arguments. I do not ask for a trick to obliterate ESF, I'm asking for a viable method to deal with aircraft. A viable method would be weapons that cost on average just as much nanites as the vehicle they engage and with a 50/50 chance of either side winning, with cheaper weapons requiring more skill and differenr circumstances to be effective.

Also your first post was saying that teamwork and small arms worked perfectly, which is saying its a hard counter. Try and keep track of your own arguments Please.

Also infantry arent free. Nanites are 1 minute for 50 nanites. One dead infantry is 10 seconds of respawn and between 10 to 60 seconds on average of returning to the fight. Any vehicle recharges its nanite cost during normal operation. MBT's according to the last data I had lived on average between 5 and 7 minutes. The lionshare of those deaths was by other vehicles, meaning that against infantry vehicles are almost guaranteed to earn their nanites back before death. Additionally they often need less skill for a kill and also are able to kill enemy infantry costing those infantry time that "repays" the nanites the vehicle already cost.

Vehicles are hilariously efficiënt compared to infantry, far more so than their force multiplier cost should give them. Having a balanced nanite for nanite weapon should have been the minimum the game launched with.

I wouldn't say that ESF is that powerful in terms of devastation. Well, except for Reaver with their shotgun. They're more like surgical instrument, either focus on one target or group of players. Liberator with Duster or Zephyr would do a better job, but alas they're too slow and too big.

Also, I had a short session right now. At one point I've decided to go check on one of the bases, that we've been trying to cap, on an A2G Mossie. Unfortunately our attack failed and there were only couple of squads of VS. I've been trying to rack some free kills. Yet, with lack of other targets, VS soldiers have focused their fire on me with their firearms. I've been shredded to bits in a couple of seconds during one of my strafes. So this tactic works, it's just the matter of the players to stop tolerating ESFs and shoot at them with what they've got.

Dude, I'm just not gonna argue with you even further if you wanna catch me up on my words like that and refuse to see the point that I'm making.

You want hard counter - G2A launcher. It exists. Use it.

Hypocrite. You refuse to see any reason, and your "point" is "mah gash nahnights means me needs ta beat stuff"

Also the G2A launcher is a bad "hard counter" because its a DETERRENT. Educate yourself Please.