HESH spam

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by HippoCryties, Jul 18, 2018.

  1. UberNoob1337101

    Okay, so you're showing a organized infantry platoon with spawn beacons versus an unorganized TR with tanks, harassers, ESFs and a couple of infantry randoms right until the last minute of the fight. But I suggest that you look at the minimap throughout the video :


    The VS infantry were completely pinned down, no Sunderers, no vehicles, nothing. They were basically stuck in the two buildings and later had to rush to the point. If there were no vehicles VS could've had at least 2 deployed Sunderers, so they wouldn't be out-popped due to randoms spawning.

    TR had no significant infantry presence right till the last 30 seconds. No matter how hard you try it's almost impossible to flip the base single-handedly in 30 seconds while an entire platoon is in a building.

    The Banshee mosquito did some work and had a few strafing runs to the roof and between the two buildings and because of that TR stopped being spawn camped. TR could've had some LAs and pin VS down even further and shut down their beacons, thus preventing them from spawning. But literally no-one did that. Harassers at the stairs also put some pressure, not great but at least better than the godawful TR infantry in the vid.

    During the video, TR infantry played like complete *******. Instead of circling around the building from the vehicle pad which was protected by tanks or pulling snipers and LAs to kill off the dudes on the roof or even rush A when it was almost empty at times, they went with unsupported MAXs, a few HAs and LAs that did literally nothing. Then they MAX crashed right at the end, got C4'd probably while their infantry was being overly passive. The guys that were on the stairs did well but should've rushed the point ASAP. They just zerged head-on against dudes with lots of medics and cover. They could've won the fight in so many ways but instead decided to be idiots.

    VS capped the facility, but what then? Tanks will probably shell the spawn till the base flips, and there's lots of TR infantry left. VS can't pull sundies because of all the TR vehicles, and will probably just get rekt. It would be just like this video but reversed. Vehicles might not get a ton of kills, but they're strategically very important because they kill sundies, pin and blow up infantry so theirs can advance. Could've camped the entrance to A with tanks too.

    The funniest thing is, the disaster would've been stopped if someone from the vehicles at the start of the video actually shot the VS light assault with the beacon.


    IDK what you're trying to say but vehicles did the most work in this video. If at least some competent infantry was there instead of random BR10s, unsupported MAXs and HAs and LAs with no situational awareness the spawn beacons would be killed and VS would fall one by one. All I see in the video is Emerbad TR being idiots as usual.

    Infantry in bases holds a lot of power but only if you let it, same goes for vehicles honestly.
    • Up x 1
  2. LodeTria


    Vehicles did all the work, then says they need infantry to actually stop it.

    Yeah sure m8, if you say so lol.
  3. UberNoob1337101

    Vehicles can't win base fights by themselves though and neither can infantry, and tanks could've stopped the dude from placing the beacon in the first place instead of staring at him for 10 seconds while he was flying. If you're suggesting one side to just spam vehicles and win points, I don't know about that.

    Vehicles destroyed all the sunderers from 0:43-1:12, if they deployed then there would be much more VS infantry on the point instead of 20 or so dudes.

    If there were no vehicles, VS would've just spawncamped the whole fight until they won. They probably also wouldn't be stuck on A for the last minute. They needed some competent infantry, sure, but vehicles cut them off from spawns and made them stuck in one place.

    Vehicles did all the work because the TR infantry didn't do anything except suicide rushing and killing 8 or so guys that got ressed anyways by the end. The Banshee mossy actually killed more than 3 players and stopped the spawncamping from the roof, while harassers distracted half the platoon from A. Not much, but they do have a presence and power in base fights, but most importantly can prevent these fights from happening at all if they were actually competent.


    You also say that capping the point at the time of the video was the most important thing ever, but it wasn't. VS would get zerged and camped by vehicles and infantry and then lose. If VS had some tanks and cleared out the area around the base, the base capture would last longer than 4 minutes.

    If you're so insistent that vehicles are worthless, then I have a challenge for you : never pull a vehicle and never use one, don't spawn from Sunderers and use them as transportation, and see how far that gets you. ppl should stop pretending that humping the capture point is the only thing that matters.
    • Up x 1
  4. LodeTria


    The U key makes this hilariously easy. This is so easy to do that many many people only do this. It's like you completely forgot that redeployside exists, with many people doing defence only. It's why attacking is so difficult in the first place, since you never know how many U warriors are gonna come out of the tubes, could be 1 or 40 it's entirely random.

    I'm sure you'll move those goal posts and limit it to attacking only, but it's too late for that.

    Except infantry did, it's in the video. RIGHT THERE. DID YOU NOT SEE IT? There are many many videos of infantry only captures. How many vehicle only captures are there though...?

    If the tank had shot the LA being competent, he would only have stopped beta squad, since the Alpha squad beacon placer was already at the point building. Are you sure you watched the video properly? This isn't even addressing just squad cycling.

    Even 1 minute from the end, with vehicles on almost all sides, infantry are beacon dropping and still getting to the point. These vehicles that so strong and useful and powerful couldn't even stop beacon infantry from getting to the point, so how useful was they? Doesn't seem like they even did their intended role of stopping attackers from reinforcing the point. If all these vehicles drivers got out of their vehicles and WERE INFANTRY they could have saved the base. They didn't though because they are using their "powerful" vehicles to... do nothing.
    • Up x 2
  5. FateJH

    I think that's giving too much credit to the vehicle effort here. The only one of importance was the strafing Mosquito. The Prowlers and Harassers were covering areas of the base that the VS footsoldiers were not even traversing that much, until they had to occupy it a bit more. It is also not fair to say they kept away friendly vehicles and that kept down friendly spawning. We see two-three VS Sunderers but it doesn't seem like anyone of consequence empties out of them initially or spawns on them. Even for the short period of time they are alive, they don't bring the numbers. They don't even last up until the TR vehicle swarm near the midpoint and barely last through an early vehicle rush; the last VS vehicle we see dies at 1:37 and, infact, all of the previously-evident vehicles vanish. A completely fresh Lightning must be spawned to finish off the last remining VS Sunderer that isn't really getting used (it may not be deployed). The remainder of the effort is managed by spawn beacon shuffling (the loathsome practice, it is) and Combat Medics.
    Relatively few were produced from them while they were available if they were deployed at all.

    Everything about incompetent TR players is much more important to the outcome of this particular video.
    It's not fair to lambast the TR dregs since you don't passively see enemy Infantry on radar without other methods of detection. There's no way of telling if the vehicle is manned unless you see it moving. if we were to use that as a metric, however, most of the armor that shows up does stop moving around the point where you begin seeing enemy radar signtaures from sides of the base that weren't the spawn room. Even if we counted up every vehicle at the end as a single player each, that'd just be another squad's worth who, if you believed they were incompetently sitting in their warmachines, would have just as incompetently rushed to their death like their allies before them. A stupid move is a stupid move if you arrive at the same point with nothing gained either way. The VS squad on the A-point was far too entrenched and organized for numbers alone to make a difference here.

    Edit:
    After watching it again, I note that TR Galaxy that's just sorta hovering around above the roadside for a minute as if it has no idea what a Galaxy is supposed to be used for.
    • Up x 1
  6. LaughingDead


    Granted, that video showed prime example of what infantry mains want to do, but to assume that they were pinned within 2 buildings is a farce. They were using the triple stack to farm anyone coming out of the spawn area and then they decided to move back into the powerhouse to concentrate their numbers. I mean, why would you need to be in any other part of the base in order to contest it? This is exactly what I hate with the game, infantry pretty much hold all the cards in how durable the hold is on the base.

    If there's anything to take from the example it's 3 things:

    1. The VS in that video did not need any vehicles what so ever despite being completely outnumbered by vehicles. Granted, they were fighting a lot of TR newbies, unorganized even but at some point the pop has to actually mean something because at the end they were actually struggling against the maxes but the thing is there could've been a lot more if people didn't spend nanites on the vehicles outside. The base only caps in 4 minutes, that's only enough nanites to pull a sunderer. Not counting any grenade usage the players were probably unable to defend with more maxes because they were already using vehicles that again had no influence on the main base fight.

    2. Vehicles do not determine the base or influence it nearly as much as people claim. There are edge cases like aurora, but to assume every base is aurora is also stupid. More often, the most influential vehicles are sunderers and scouting vehicles. In this video, banshee was the most notorious and even then, if you count the kills he had manage to get throughout, he only ended up with 6-7 kills with the banshee until they decided to swap into the powerhouse in which the banshee was irrelevant because of the cover provided. The guy that were were screen sharing managed to get 5 kills by himself as just a light assault, so if the banshee could only counteract his kills then the banshee was more or less acting as a sniper.

    "Oh but the banshee could've just been bad or inexperienced!" Well, also not true, in the moment we saw our little mans that we follow, one of his deaths is to the banshee, and he was an auraxed one. So suffice to say he was experienced, it's just the banshee was not available to get nearly as many kills as you might think.

    3. Coordinated infantry can do a lot more than coordinated vehicles. Since the game is geared more towards infantry, it should come to no surprise that if infantry can self sustain without vehicles, then organized play requires none. We do see that they often swap beacons to keep their spawns going. Now to compare a beacon to a sunderer is hogwash, but for this example, since all of their spawns were based within their squad and their squads were the only ones at the base, they might as well have been sunderers for the case of spawning infantry. In terms of fragility, if the enemy was able to constantly kill all their beacons then eventually they would've run out of ways to spawn a new mans, but could easily cover that up with the ample supply of medics and infinite reviving.



    Now again, this isn't to say that the TR in this clip were not inexperienced, they completely were, they were also unorganized, they were using vehicles and they were fighting an organized squad but that isn't to say that they were so bad that anything they would've done wouldn't have mattered, if that were they case they wouldn't have forced reactions from the VS squad consolidating their remainders so that they were able to beat maxes headon.

    It was a perfect storm of not having nanites, no coordination, inexperience and late timing. But that doesn't invalidate that the vehicles outside couldn't do anything, that the vehicles did cost nanites so they didn't have more maxes to make up for the bads and that the VS were coordinated to beat out sheer numbers. But I am a little skeptic about how many infantry actually showed up to the fight, it seemed a lot fewer than 48+ by the chart presented by the map afterwords, they didn't even have full squads, so odds are they teetered on the 12-16 mark, but they were outnumbered by 3x, so there had to have been at least 16, so there were 16 people defending from "48 TR" which doesn't seem like it in the video. I'm pretty sure at that point you can assume that most of them were still in vehicles as the drop pod scenes do show vehicles moving and we do see vehicles moving outside on the radar.
    • Up x 3
  7. Silkensmooth

    The only people reading these walls of text are the 2 or 3 having a public argument.

    Spacing helps. And a tldr is always nice.
    • Up x 2
  8. adamts01

    That's just plain not true, in the case of all 3 of your examples. I've consistently argued that the Vanguard and NC Max are the best in class, and the other factions need a buff. I've long argued the Harasser was completely unbalanced before CAI, and is even worse now. And I've been more outspoken about the Striker than probably everyone on these forums and Reddit combined. True, your examples of what I've complained about here are smaller fish, but they're still broken.


    You've entirely missed my point. I've consistently said for quite a long time that the Striker is the only effective launcher vs air, too easy to use at range and from a Valk in my opinion. For years I've argued for much more powerful launchers, but with ammo that costs nanites as a balancing factor. That's where my Arma example fits in. They have launchers that can OHK a tank from the rear, which balances the tank's insane power by making it incredibly vulnerable in close quarters. PS2 though, it does present unique problems in that HAs can appear from literally nowhere on the back of an invisible Flash, or drop from the sky out of a Valk. So there would need to be some unique limitations on those launchers in PS2. We're both agreeing that infantry/vehicle balance is in a bad place.
  9. JibbaJabba

    Congrats ForumSiders!!!

    You did it! You nerfed yet another weapon in the game! You broke those forum rules, called for a nerf and ran with it till your little feeties fell right off.

    Now we have tanks running around with guns designed specifically to kill infantry - AND THEY DON'T KILL INFANTRY!!
    BWHAHAHAHAHA!
  10. Campagne

    Oh calm down, HE still kills infantry no problem. Only now players have to aim for a OHK and deal more damage if they miss. But don't forget to mention Flak doesn't do anything against tank shells anymore.

    And as per usual these forums likely had nothing to do with the changes. Blame Reddit.
  11. JibbaJabba


    Bruh. It doesn't kill infantry anymore...at least no better than the AP round that is supposed to be weakest against infantry.

    Good job folks! On to the next thing that you don't like...
  12. LodeTria


    Only direct hits, it will still lower the splash damage.
    • Up x 1
  13. Campagne

    Still does, just won't OHK without a direct hit. And is still better than AP at AI because it can deal huge damage with a missed shot. Not the solution I wanted, but I'll accept it I guess.

    I don't like that the TR got higher velocity buffs than the supposedly high-velocity faction in this same patch. Let's do that one next! ;)

    Right, *direct tank shells. In my defence I was typing on my phone. :p
  14. Maxor

    This just reminds me on how the devs failed to copy the BF formula when it came to vehicles. PS1 vehicles had critical locations that when damaged lowered the effectiveness of movement, reload, radar etc... Battlefield has the same mechanics for its tanks as well and what was the one thing PS2 didn't have implemented?...

    At least in PS1 we had some options to get tanks to **** off like EMP grenades, TRAPS and the Scorpion. While Scorpion itself didn't endanger the tanks it at least got the crew to move farther away from a base to repair as it could kill them while they repair giving the defenders more time to place deadlier options like mines.
  15. Maxor

    At this point I'd rather we get PS1 style AT mines where you get around 30 of them. They do light damage (would take 6-7 just to kill a lightning), are cloaked up to 5 meters and MUST be placed at least 1.5 meters from each other (so no mine stacking). This way mines become more effective at area denial and at killing impatient vehicles while also stemming the HESH armor zergs through infantry defensive based preparation.
  16. FateJH

    Clarification: this feature only worked under certain conditions. If a standard ground vehicle sustained critical levels of damage (I don't have the number but perhaps somewhere less than 20%?), it moved much more slowly. Air vehicles refeused to let the pilot bail from it at around the same low health period as the aforementioned standard ground vehicles. Battleframe Robots had multiple subsystems that could take damage.
    Entry and exit animations. Separated seating. Seat armor restrictions. Fine seat controls for the driver. Trunk space. Actual traction control.
  17. JDS999

    ahahahahah 34/1 and your whining about hesh lol. anywho its been nerfed but i would of went a different way... would of made indirect hits do 49% damage with flak 5, made it equivilant dmg to esf;s as the dalton, and nerefed its ability on tanks/viechles so 1ap lightning would be able to beat 2 hesh tanks problems solved. sense they were making implants they could of made a common implant that reduced the effects of hesh. sence response jaket doesnt work on maxes like i thought it seems useless. Anywho i guess its not to hard to hurt most peoples feelings in this game, invincibilty for everyone.
  18. Pacster3

    That was about as much of a nerf as the prowler "nerf". Especially when nerfing flakamor at the same time...
  19. HippoCryties

    What?
  20. Clipped!

    I agree completely with those who think that the HESH shouldn't be doing as much damage to tanks (both per shot and per second).

    However, if the impact damage is lowered, then the splash damage would need to be increased in order to compensate for the loss in damage against infantry. This then causes an issue with the "direct hits insta-kill infantry" mentality from the most recent update as the splash would one shot infantry without needing a direct hit. Why not change the HESH's impact damage type to be anti-material (the archer's damage type) from tank shells as it deals up to 40% less against MBT', sundys and lightnings? Excellent, you've solved the problem of the HESH's effectiveness against ground armor, but now it doesn't have it's massive damage bonus against aircraft should one somehow close enough and at low altitude and speed for hitting it.

    Why not give the HESH's impact a whole new damage type (anti-infantry cannon?) that has both the somewhat reduced damage versus ground vehicles like the anti-materiel damage type, but still has the damage bonus against aircraft should you manage to hit one? That would need plenty of work by DB's coders although it would be the best solution, next to changing the HESH's impact damage to anti-materiel.