Would it be better if construction was removed?

Agreed, Planetside 2 would be the greatest game ever if it was fought on the open ground with player made bases where players have never ever walked before.

I've made suggestions about how the Flail and Glaive IPC could be allowed to fire into lattice bases by applying suitable negative effects to them the farther into the base they're firing. So you can't just be dropping flail shots on enemy bases without negative repercussions.

• Fire Effect 0 - When a Flail dart lands the structure will fire and take 15 seconds to reset.

• Fire Effect 1 - When a Flail dart lands inside a No Build Zone (NBZ) and/or a Deployed Sunderer No-Deploy Zone (DS-NDZ) a minor EMP effect hits the Flail/Glaive causing it to take +150% cooldown time (37.5 sec) and slightly reduces accuracy causing RNG inside a ~10m radius around the dart.

• Fire Effect 2 - When a Flail dart lands inside a NBZ and a No-Deploy Zone (NDZ) there is a moderate EMP effect causing it to have +500% cooldown time (90 sec) and significantly reduces accuracy causing RNG inside a ~25m radius around the dart.

• Fire Effect 3 - When a Flail dart lands inside a NBZ and a Pain Field (PF) there is a major EMP effect causing it to have +600% cooldown time (105 sec) and massively reduces accuracy causing RNG inside a ~35m radius around the dart. Additionally, the damage of the shells is suppressed such that maximum blast damage and range are both reduced by 50%.

It's worth noting that by using a percentage modifier on the ROF these same Fire Effect modifiers can be used for the Glaive IPC too.

Additionally Player made/activated points would be an interesting mechanic.

Built in the same Hex as (and presumably within a certain range of) a base it acts as an additional capture point that must be taken.
In a 3 point base this can be used to slow captures in a 1 point base it can hold them up until it's destroyed or captured.
Now there are different ways you could approach this. either making the points fixed in a Hex and activated when PMB silo is close enough to power it.
Or make it a module that the builders can place. There are pros and cons to both ways.

A simpler solution might be linking no build zones to an scu style object in each base. If the attacker wants to artillery then they need to destroy it. Players can build once it's down but if it gets repaired those structures will get Insta popped so for the most part it'll really just control artillery access.

Of course destroying it means the defender can artillery as well, so you need to weigh up that risk.

I had made an argument for a similar tool back before OS could shoot into the lattice. The issue I'd have with it for the artillery is as soon as it's down you could have 3-4 Flails/Glaives raining death on the spawn rooms which would still be op.

I'll grant that I'm no coder so I may be overlooking things but wouldn't something like this more or less be all that was needed to have the select fire modes?

If Dart fired check target for PF
if PF (true) then Fire Effect 3
else check target for NDZ
if NDZ (true) then Fire Effect 2
else check target for NBZ
if NBZ (true) then Fire Effect 1
else check target for DS-NDZ,
If DS-NDZ (true) then Fire Effect 1
else Fire Effect 0

Sure that's more than the current

If Dart fired check target for NBZ
if NBZ (true) then No-Fire Message
else Fire Effect 0

But it's hardly an insurmountable amount, they already have the RNG mechanic that they use in shotguns and adjusting the ROF is fairly easy, a lot of weapons (especially TR ones) do it depending on the situation. The only mechanic I can't think of seeing before in some form or another is a gun that fires different yield shells depending on the situation.

If that proved insurmountable to implement I'd settle for replacing Fire Effect 3 with the No-Fire Message if the dart landed in a Pain Field

In PS1 I remember a certain player-turned-developer known as Samhayne who did everything you're saying doesn't happen. He took a game went from undergoing a revival such that there was speculation of possibly unmerging a server or two to bleeding even more people because he wanted his personal preference to be the end all be all of "tactics". So much so that I believe he was the only developer to get told to resign or be fired at SOE. Not to mention as someone who keeps trying to play American carriers in World of Warships I can speak for how easily personal bias can take over development when its shared by a few developers. Sorry but the past speaks a bit too loudly to just accept "trust us" as valid currency.

So how about showing that you guys actually mean what you say Maybe by putting a real change instead of these half-baked throw an idea against the wall and see if it works? Maybe something like the following? What is an all-too common problem stated over and over on these forums about in-game fixed bases? That they aren't worth defending against even a moderate overpopulation due to poor layouts that all too often end up making it easier for the attacker to hold & reinforce the point than the defenders. So let the players invest time into fixing that issue by shrinking the no-deploy zone to just around control points/ spawn rooms/ vehicle pads (common targets for 4th factioners) and only blocking those items that would prevent said areas normal use (ex wall in front of a door). With that done, and if defenders are willing to put down the walls, turrets, structures, and modules to really fortify a base just maybe a defense will be viable for longer than the it takes the overpop to reach the base. And if a defense against superior numbers is viable then a empire that is double teams/ outnumbered might just be able to hold its own if they do everything right instead of praying the other guys tunnel vision on each other at some meat grinder biolab until they can sneak the lock in.

Of course a counter is needed. Funny thing is it already exists. Aside from the attackers building there own OS/ Glaive/ Flail bases they could use the same small-scale assault tactics used to take out existing bases now to put a hole in the defenses for a larger assault to push through. Hey look at that. Actually coordination and teamwork - what so many people here claim to favor - have a real impact on the overall battle. Not to mention the need to take out/ fix fortifications quickly might just give certain under-used abilities (looking at you demolitions pouch) a new lease on life.

Will it happen? Probably not. At least as long as certain people keep whining about how its so unfair that someone who thought 3 steps ahead and built a base where its actually meaningful are "less skilled" that 18 to 24 year olds whose sugar-inhibited attention span is under 3 seconds whose entire concept of "strategy" is charge up a line while assuming abusing the hell out of the net code will save them.

definately would mind it ..

well considering the 1000's of $ they would need to refund or risk the complete ire of a large group of their paying customers i doubt it would ever happen.

then again this is the successor to SOE so you never know they could actually be that dumb.

There's a few things I don't understand with construction though I really enjoy it still. Why can I fire an orbital but can't fire a flail in a ndz? Seems like you should be able to to me. Why isn't construction used to buff bases particularly against zergs but I guess that's what the OS is for. Right now drop, kill gens, cap and all the while construction is at the top of the hill out of range except for the blasted OS which ruins good fights imo. I never liked OS in PS1 and I wasn't glad to see it come back . So I've changed my strategy. Sitting in a base and maintaining it is boring to me. Dropping a silo setting up a small base to support armor during a fight I've come to enjoy since that's one of my roles and same with supporting aircraft which is supposed to be an engineer's role anyway. Still Im not as effective as a repair and ammo Sunderer on the front line. I don't want to get rid of it but yeah it needs tweaking.

I asked a dev about that and he explained that while OS gets one shot every 15 minutes Flail can be firing every 15 seconds. To be fair that's a reasonable issue he stated which lead me to develop the proposed solution above.

Lucanius, I think that is a step backward because it takes quite some time for the shells to get there, there is an icon on the minimap for everyone to see as well as a sound indicating something falling rather fast. Due to these tells it is thus is easily dodged unless the driver is oblivious to that area of their hud and have a hard time hearing, or are in a traffic jam. Not to mention that the barrage also seems to hit a few meters toward the user from the dart's impact point rather than being centered on where the dart hit, requiring the user to aim upwards as if accounting for the dullet drop on a tank shell. I've stationary sundies and other targets directly with the Flail dart to only find that the barrage doesn't go where I shot it to. The dart itself doesn't seem to have a heavier bullet drop than the recon dart for the Infiltrator.

I do agree that artillery shouldn't be able to be called down near spawn rooms or control points (unless they are vehicle capture points). The reason I don't inlude sundie No-deploy zones is that there are larger bases that have areas that vehicles that easily maneuver (such as tech plants) , but Flails should be able to fire into No-Construction zones regardless as armor fights are almost always near or partly inside a base (defender vehicles peeking through gate shields), preventing it from doing what it's intended to do. This should also apply to OS's if they get their anti-infantry damage back.

And speaking of pain fields I believe that it's been long overdue that teleporters and boost pad tunnel exits get pain fields themselves, so that people don't have to worry about people camping them with mines or as infantry, at least not with within a short distance. The tunnels (as well as other spawn areas) themselves could use something that prevents infantry from being detected by scanners (both infiltrators and vehicle radars) until they exit them, or fire their weapon. This would prevent infantry and vehicles (air and ground) from having a sixth sense on infantry who just spawned and are trying to make it out without being killed within 4 seconds of exiting a protected area from which they have no way of seeing anything outside until they are.

This is (In my opinion) hard to balance. Nurf it, most base would get run over very easily. Buff it, a good builder could create undistructible base.

You can't, because of the limited amount of defenses you get.

But they do get there. To be clear the purpose of my suggestion isn't intending for targeting vehicles rather act as a nerfing effect on using the artillery to bombard lattice bases.

The drop on the darts actually works in the favour of an operator, the last time I was making significant use of the Flail I'd taken out a couple of Vanguards and made a few kills besides that when one of the NC at a sunderer pulled a sniper. I was fortunate in that his first shot was a chest hit and I was able to duck into cover.
But the thing is the angle I was firing at to land shots amongst them meant that I could still shoot even while out of sight of the sniper.

Indeed it's already an imprecise weapon but once you're ranged in on a target area it's fairly easy to drop shell consistently where you want them to go.

My idea is intended to allow the users of a Flail/Glaive the opportunity to fire into the lattice bases but at a reduced rate of fire and probability of making a kill (essentially the reasons the Dev I spoke with stated for preventing it outright.)

I'd be perfectly open to hearing proposed adjustments for the Fire effect cooldown lengths and RNG scattering, but don't understand how you think it would be a step backwards since at present the flail simply can't shoot into lattice bases at all.

Indeed using the No Deploy Zones, No Build Zones and Pain Fields would be slightly limiting in regards to facilities like Tech plants but overall I'd consider it a substantial step in the right direction to be able to fire near them even with quite severe penalties. And I'd be willing to discuss the specifics of those penalties as balance required.

Yes, I agree with this wholeheartedly, there's no reason not to extend pain fields to subsidiary locations indeed that was actually intended as a feature to be adopted with this proposal. Essentially, you'd be marrying locations where you wanted to dissuade targeting to pain fields requiring pain fields be installed in/around all teleporter rooms.

I'd settle for them letting me have 3 defencive towers of whatever type I choose. Eg 3 AA towers or 2 Anti-Infantry and 1 Anti-Tank. it's customization that makes building fun, being able to build a flak site with a buddy that has 6 AA guns would be awesome, balanced by the fact that any idiot with a harasser or a brain-cell could wipe out the base by themselves.
Also, reduce the distance that defence towers must be built apart by about 1m, a subtle change that will make defencive lines easier to build.

For the first half of where I'm quoting you: Yes, it would be a step in the right direction, but it's rather frustrating to not only need one, but two "luck" mechanics for you to actually get results. Not to mention it adds quite a few more lines of code than what would be ideal for performance wise. You know how Orbital Strikes and Flail shots take half second to a second and a half (depending on ping and FPS) after dart impact before their effects appear on the mini map? With the amount of extra code your solution proposes, that registering and package spawning delay could end up being be doubled or tripled. And as far as I know, the Flail dart only checks for no-construction zones, and possibly also no-deploy zones and certain painfields.

So if anything, in the best case scenario the solution I suggested actually removes a line or two of code, and in the worst it adds 3-4 lines of code, where as yours is guaranteed to add several the dart and even more to the Flail itself. Changes should makes sense, be balanced, and performance friendly. I honestly can hardly wait till the squirt guns go away so my FPS can reliably stay above or at 30, and the Buzzard gets the buff it needs so it's not hard as heck to use.

I love the System, nut it has a few major problems:

- nerfed to hell, one harasser can take down a base easily
- the module design is crap. little stones with almost no healthpoints, blocking the tiny space in the base.
- The spawntube is a joke, it dies faster than your respawn timer. One enemy with a comissiner is enough.
- Paintowers are a joke, 15 Meters is nothing. yes you have 3, nut worthless too - you have to leave a huge amount of space between them
- The base items were designed on a flat surface, a strugle to build somthing on a uneven ground
- HUD issues: "coliding with another object" - HIGHLIGHT THIS _another_OBJECT ... FFS!

The solution:

- Buff HP points
- Get rid of the spawntube, just add a little spawn building WITH(!!!!!) Weapon terminal
- buff the Painfield up to 25 or 30 meters/ no mininmal with between the towers.
- unlock some no-building-areas at some small bases, so we can ADD Base stuff to breakup weakpoints and make small base fights more enjoyable. Not the same pathways and sunderer places again and again.

It is a great System, it adds much more tactics and little fights on the side of the main war. This is whats PS all about - if you don't like that, then you will be better with the round based fragging nonsense like Battlefield.

Since the update construction is not worth the time investment. Bases die too fast, defence towers are low damage and low hitpoints.
Building die in seconds. Spawntube dies in 1 infantry clip from any weapon.

I really used to build a lot of bases, but THIS is NOT FUN.

Attackers are so heavily favored to the point that it is simply unfair.
Bases are nothing but giant xp pinatas.

Want to build a serious base now? Place silo and an orbital. DONE. Serious base finished.

The concept of invulnerable buildings was way better.
And the turrets where even crap before the latest changes, if all constuction needed serious buffs not nerfs.

All the good ideas DB had, get overshadowed by the simple fact that it is not usable in a live environment.

I no longer invest time in a gameplay that just caters all the advantages and xp in favor of the attackers.

Seriously DB, go play you own constuction game for some time and i garuantee you will feel the frustration and the anger i do.
The flimsy construction and the not caring players around you are garuanteed to make one rage eventually.
Try the pain yourself, maybe you will finally get some idea what you did wrong if you won't believe the "old veteran builders".

Construction, like everything else this team has done over the last 4 years, was implemented in such a way it will take several rounds of development to integrate construction the way it was originally intended.

It's like if I hired you to paint my cars and every single car you've ever painted required you to repaint the whole thing because every single paint job was botched the first time. I'd probably get different painters after a while, especially when I started losing $ because my competition has better looking paint jobs.

That or increase damage so it can actually get kills. 50 damage a second is going to take 20 seconds to get a kill with it (infantry have 1k health), which is stupid. Often times it does nothing at all to prevent Infils charging in with knives, getting a kill or two and then running straight back out with basically full health. This happens at standard bases too.

Pain fields are a bad joke. I call them "the ramps of the last patch". ;-)