HESH spam

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by HippoCryties, Jul 18, 2018.

  1. LaughingDead

    Inflated from 1k extra people using it, bad stats because people drive around with it.
    Quite frankly, I’m not going to argue this any further, but I gotta ask if what you say is true then how come vipers despite having twice the amount of users achieved a similar KPH while also having to drive everywhere with their turret all the while managing to come up with said numbers. By your logic they should be drastically lower, which only comes down to two things: the data is wrong or your logic is wrong.

    You even said vipers are crap, if they have comparable stats in spite of inflation of use then there’s only two conclusions you can draw from it:
    Hesh is about the same tier as vipers.
    The data you and I have been using is wrong.
    Your pick.
    I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone complain about viper lightnings either tbh.

    Hesh is just flashy.
    I’m getting a drink, chao.
  2. adamts01

    It's pretty specific what you have to do at that point. A certed out Flash makes things infinitely easier when you're new. Upgrade the mag on the Fury, then get a passenger with the Decimator and explosive crossbow bolts. If the Grenades & Deci don't insta-kill a tank from the rear, then a single explosive bolt will finish it off. No single other vehicle in the game can come close to that dps, and there's literally nothing they can do unless they somehow spotted you beforehand. You'll often trade kills when you're new, but that's still 50 nanites for 350-450. Just take your time and pick off the tanks in the back. It's the most broken thing in the game by a very long shot, which is why their decision to add even more guns to the Flash cemented my wallet shut. It's clear to me now that DBG is hopelessly clueless.
  3. Pacster3


    It's odd. Stuff like that is in the game for years already. Nobody EVER complained and it was barely ever used. Now people like you seem to make a point out of promoting it all over the place...and then you want a nerf cause it is all over the place(which it isn't yet)? Called selffulfilling prophecy I guess...

    And by the way: I do not think you use that strat often yourself. Simply cause it ain't as reliable as you claim and sitting with 2 people in a less vulnerable MBT or Harasser gets you better gains and is more fun. It's one of those "it works in theory but is hard to pull of and there are easier things with better gains around"-strats….just like many others where you need perfect coordination of a team(that hardly ever happens).
    • Up x 1
  4. adamts01

    I don't use it often, you're right. I detest that it exists. I've always hated it, but I did take the time to learn the technique from the best in order to understand it from the other side of the fence. And yes, I do promote it because I want it to spread and I want it to eventually get nerfed. I don't think cloaked Flashes should have guns. All I can say to you is that if you don't think it's as powerful as I claim then you haven't given it a real try. Get a competent teammate on coms (critical), use the loadout I mentioned, put a decent amount of certs in to Stealth, cloak, and turn speed, and give it a couple of hours of practice. It's the perfect counter to any single armor problem that may present itself, though it's not for K/D-sensitive types, as you will die every run, but not until you kill at least 1 tank, if not 3.
    • Up x 1
  5. FateJH

    Saying that no one used something or that no one ever complained about how it was (would be) used is shortsighted. One thing this community definitely has is imagination, and enough gumption to invent a tactic that someone will find a way to use something that will have a stink raised about it.

    I assure you: there are people who considered this and did complain about each gradual inclusion. People complained about the level of damage of the explosive bolt to vehicles. People complained about Wraith Module not limiting weaponry on the Flash. People complained about the new flash weapons. I can't vouch for people complaining about the rumble seat's inclusion but I assure you that there must have been one naysayer. I think what you are commenting on is volume and condensation. Some complaints don't rise to the level of thousands of posts with thousands of replies each, but they will still gnaw over time.
  6. Pacster3

    And that is the problem. You dislike the strat(so you won't use it), it counters yours, you call for nerf. Whether it is really a problem in the game or not at this point does not matter at all(seriously, how often did it happen to you compared to kills by C4, harassers, other tanks? Exactly...). I do not care how good it is, I never tried it myself, I hardly ever got killed by a flash either...so I do not see the problem. If you spread all over the place that it is OP then you should not be surprised if suddenly everyone tries it out and the numbers(and hence the killed vehicles) will rise for some time(until people noticed that it ain't that great after all. By that time you likely will be in the forum saying "see, how many get killed? NERF! NOW!"). You reached your goal and we got another hardly ever used vehicle that gets used even less. Congrats...
    Same happened with OS and constructed bases.
  7. Campagne

    An extra 1-2K people using it full time as a main weapon instead of a situational AI-only weapon. Another trend which demonstrates this are grenades. Even though they have a massive number of users they're KPHs are through the roof. This is because the only time the weapon is counted as "in use" is mid-throw. This basically means the weapon is only used when it would be needed and can score multiple kills per each throw. Even though most grenades probably don't kill, they are only used when they are in a position beneficial to them.

    Could be a few different reasons why. Obviously double the numbers of Vipers over HE cannons is playing a roll somewhere in this. Ask me, it's because the Viper is such **** even though there's an extra 3K of them around they still can't kill more than the HE cannons do, and given it is a default weapon which offers nothing to veterans, I'd reckon it's almost exclusively nubs who will maybe get a few infantry kills before falling victim to just about anything capable of AV damage. So I pick neither of your pigeonholed oversimplifications and reject your false narratives. :p

    Haven't heard a bad thing about it? Well, let me fix that: The Viper has no accuracy and can't kill anything that actively fights back.

    HE is flashy alright. It's also point & click for immense rewards and doesn't truly suffer against enemy armour either, which is the whole point of this thread.

    Hey, it's your claim, not mine. I won't argue against it if you won't support it.
  8. adamts01

    How prevalent something is isn't the point. Broken is broken. Saying otherwise is like saying an OP implant is fine because it's rare, or an expensive OP gun is fine because so few players could afford to buy it. That just doesn't make sense. And this isn't at all a case of something countering my playstyle, as I rarely play tanks. I picked up this strategy to deal with tanks that I otherwise couldn't as infantry. And yeah, I hope everyone adopts this tactic and the thing becomes balanced, that's literally my entire goal, a well balanced and competitive game. I make a strong effort to understand mechanics from every point of view before I criticize them, and I suggest you do the same and become proficient with a Flash before you defend it.
    • Up x 2
  9. Pacster3

    No. My definition would be that an op implant that is common and NOT used, is likely not all that op. People tend to use OP stuff....and to get a starfall or a fury is not THAT hard.
  10. DragonOps

    MAX weapons?
  11. JonnyMonroe

    Sounds like you're out popped.

    I agree HESH is too much right now but this example is ridiculous. Nobody is walking up to a 24-48 zerg and coming out o top regardless of what weapon they or you use. Nor should they.
    • Up x 1
  12. DrPapaPenguin

    HESH isn't really the problem, extremely stupid base design is. If you can easily spam shots into the base while having decently covered position then nerfing the shot will do jack ****, something else will simply take the position of FotM cannon and we'll be back to square one.
    • Up x 1
  13. JibbaJabba


    Cloaked fury flash.

    /micdrop


    Your hypothetical is a bit ridiculous though. Assume HESH is removed from the game completely and that lighting is up there shelling you with AP rounds instead. Or better yet he's just gone full R and is shelling you with a skyguard. How are you going to deal with him? I'm waiting.

    Don't confuse the effectiveness of organized play (combined arms included) with a weapon being OP. If you play solo you are going to be limited in what you can do and the players using teamwork are going to regularly dominate you. Welcome to Planetside.
  14. JibbaJabba



    Yeah definitely.

    The balance today is achieved through marshmallows and pillows.

    Overall the game used to be just much more lethal and that really was OK. Tanks ran HE and Thermals. They would outright farm infantry like reaping wheat if left unchecked. So we didn't leave them unchecked. We pulled them into CQB where infantry dominated. Infantry could mana turret from 900 meters and a Decimator to the rear armor would do enough damage to panic the driver. Liberators annhililated armor (ESFs annhiliated liberators)

    Even with enhanced infantry lethality though vehicles simply dominated them. You had to counter with your own armor... actually used combined arms or you would get rolled. This was greatly mitigated because armor could not be pulled from every terminal, only certain ones. You also had a separate resource pool just for armor, and timers on it so even if you had resources you couldn't pull two HE spammers back to back if one got killed.

    I don't think HE needs nerfed. Sorry guys. I don't thing armor and infantry should be balanced either. Armor should rule in the open, infantry should rule in CQB. Things are too soft as they are already. There are counters to lightnings still today. Use them.
    • Up x 1
  15. HippoCryties

    Btw just so you know my flash is fully certed and I auraxed it. Trust me that’s not as effective as u claim it to be. I know from experience
  16. HippoCryties

    Of course armour dominates open ground, as it should. But we are talking about closed bases like watersons which are formed in very CQB
  17. HippoCryties

    Sorry what? You really confuse me. I’ve played since launch like I said earlier . I run with a good outfit but they were not on at the time. I’m not asking for a solo counter to HESH zergs I’m saying that the bases in this game make it way too easy for the HESH spammer to farm kills!
  18. JibbaJabba



    Watersons, AKA the frickin' Octagon. Is a 4 point capture on a 4 point lattice. It is absolutely going to be a combined arms battle. You ARE going to have to deal with armor. If you lose the armor battle, be prepared for the infantry battle to be challenging.

    We are somehow using this an excuse to call for a HESH nerf?

    C'mon guys.
  19. JibbaJabba



    Let me fix that for you.

    I’m saying that the bases in this game make it way too easy for the uncontested HESH spammer that nobody bothers to deal with to farm kills of the people that do not recognize the battle is lost and keep deploying instead of pulling vehicles from a nearby base and rescuing the defense like a good commander should.

    Not sure if you know or not but all those walls around the bases on Esamir? .. They didn't used to exist. They are there to mitigate vehicle interference in the internal infantry battles. There remain some basis where they still allow vehicles to interfere. It's a deliberate design choice, not some oversight.

    Guys: You're going to have to deal with it. If someone pulls out Rock when you're playing Scissors then either call in some Paper or expect to get crushed. Don't blame the game for this. It gives you mechanisms to deal with it, but you would rather it go away without having to deal with it. Hey, I feel the same way about infiltrators, but in reality the game would suck if it were any other way.
    • Up x 1
  20. Demigan

    Oh noes, it's annoying. Boo freaking hoo. You know what's annoying? If something OHK's you and there's virtually nothing you can do about it. HE for example.

    But hey if you don't like debuffs (which would work way different than the stunted way you seem to thing, why would you not be able to repair it off? All I mentioned was that you wouldn't be able to get into cover as quickly an have a higher risk vs reward), which would actually promote some genuine article combined arms that you moronic f-twads are screaming about, we can always just buff the hell out of these utility-based AV weapons and just blow vehicles apart with nanite-infantry and tanks on an equal footing. That works for me.

    And I've been saying it for a long time and players who actually tried it will agree: Pulling a tank from another base is a suicide mission. You are still outnumbered, you are likely going to attract vehicles just dying to get a piece of you. I sometimes do such tactics with a friend of mine, but that only works as we don't have the goal of clearing out the entire enemy vehicle presence, which is pretty much impossible by pulling vehicles from the next base and fighting with randoms to get it back.

    Oh the realism card eh?
    America has about 5884 tanks, most of them mothballed. And 41.000 IFV's. There's a multitude of reasons for this:
    Cost, infantry cost way less than tanks. Just a full ammunition pack runs in the hundreds of thousands to over a million in some cases, and the tanks themselves are extremely pricey. PS2 tanks aren't pricey, so they shouldn't be as powerful as real tanks.
    Manpower: Although a tank seems to be about 2 to 6 guys in a tiny steel trap, the surrounding supply train is massive. From just the daily maintenance of a tank to the lifespan of the engine which in war-area's can be measured in weeks, rather than years and easily use up entire platoons worth of people just to keep one tank running.
    Repairs: As much as you like to say that they don't want to have their tanks damaged, infantry is well capable of damaging a tank. A .50cal can damage the tracks, optics and other expensive equipment on the hull of the tank, such as the brand-spanking new hard-kill systems. Repairs in real life cost time, resources, often advanced equipment that the engineer corps needs to haul in if they don't have to drag the entire tank away. In real life if someone knocked the track off of a tank with a .50 cal, he would call in an airstrike/artillerystrike and bye bye tank.
    Damage: You argue that people don't want their tanks to be simply destroyed, unfortunately when in combat you want weapons that can simply destroy a tank. In come tanks that can basically OHK any tank they meet, or at the very least cause such catastrophic damage that the opponent won't be able for a good retaliation. You want tank combat to be about who shoots first? Or should we account for projectile kinetic energy as well? In that case the Prowler guns will suddenly be useless against the Vanguards armor, hurrah! Such fun... And infantry? They get AT missiles, many of which currently outperform kinetic projectiles. So why don't tanks get outfitted with AT missiles? Because AT missiles are best fired from a stationary position, and tanks aren't supposed to fire from the stationary. Tanks primary role is to assault a line, make a hole and then... The mechanised infantry in IFV's comes in and uses that hole to keep pressure on the enemy and prevent them from reforming and making sure that by the time command gets word of what happened that any orders they send are obsolete by the time their men receive them.

    As for the ineviteable "but hard-kill systems work 100% perfect and they are just being tested!": While the manufacturers claim these systems have been 100% pristine that's the exact reason why you simply know it's a lie. Even when advanced missiles with over 75% hit-chance in practice sessions were used against aircraft that were build prior to missiles and had zero detection or countermeasures against missiles, the hit % dropped to less than 25% in real combat. Every known anti-missile system prior to these hard-kill systems has trouble with oversaturation and in many cases timely detection, but these hard-kill system magically don't? And a .50 cal or anti-material rifle can damage these 300.000 dollar systems?

    I could go on, but you don't want to have realism for your tanks, you just want the advantages realism gives you while ignoring how tanks are really used and ignoring all the disadvantages realism would bring.

    This only counts for dumb tankers, not for the rest of the game. Show me some video's of tanks being pushed back by infantry in a more or less open field. A good place would be between Crossroads and Xenotech, there's frequent infantry-pushes from one base to the other there... And the infantry is absolutely murdered the moment friendly vehicles cannot provide cover anymore. Hey so what you just said is at odds with what's really happening in the game? Well that's not a surprise!

    "easily" alpha down one tank? First of all, it requires 5 infantry to take on one tank while it's attacking a Sunderer, as in it's actually engaged in other activity and then the infantry can attack it? Oh wow such bad stuff! And you know what... If you had a few infantry there for combined arms to kill off the Heavies, you wouldn't be having this problem now would you? Oh but "combined arms" only has to be in the tanker favor according to you right?

    It's kinda ******** that tanks don't die from one AT missile. It happens in real-life doesn't it? And hey, with smaller rifles like anti-material rifles you can still damage the optics and make the tank blind, or shoot the tracks and force the tank into a standstill so the crew needs to get out to repair... Hey maaaaybe tanks get a lot more advantages out of this, and get the relatively small disadvantage of some edge-cases where they can't OHK infantry? Ooooh but that wouldn't be good for your point so I guess we'll be ignoring that from now on...
    • Up x 4