[Vehicle] Prowler Nerfed Again...

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by RollTideMustang, Jun 13, 2018.

  1. RollTideMustang

    Well, I guess it is FAIR! Let's take away the reload speed & give it no armor what so ever...So it's fair Vanguard Super health & shields up front yeah that's fair to... Magrider climbs Mtn. to Mtn. no recoil Super VPC yeah, that's fair to...

    So any TR out there that is on a Prowler when you added the barrage did you see a difference?
    I sure did not slower reload speed to me...I see no difference in Anchor-Mode either...
    • Up x 4
  2. Movoza

    Now I haven't tried it myself, but I thought the prowler now got anchor for velocity boosts as standard with no changes, and has it's reload speed set to an activatable temporary ability. So fast firing any time you want with, with cooldown.

    The DPS is high without any ability and it used to be insane when anchored, practically negating the shield. If the activatable ability is anything like the old anchored ability, you can now drive around, getting better positions/staying close to your target while obliterating them. True, DPS overall has decreased, but in lots of situations you can be a powerhouse, driving around a corner, unleashing hell for a moment without the need to deploy and slink back in the shadows.

    So here's me asking, have you tried activating barrage with f, or whatever you use to activate boost or shield on the other MBT's?
  3. Xebov

    I dont understand your issue. Magrider can move around, Vanguard has its Health/Front Armor and Prowler has the Anchoring now for free (and dont tell me 50% Speed is bad) plus its still the fastest Tank. Magrider has its Magburner as a limit use ability, Vanguard has its Shield as limit use ability and Prowler has Barrage as limit use (which is 15s? thats double the Shield). So the main complaint is that you no longer have endless DPS increase and instead have a ability that has a limit, but can be used on the move, which is a huge buff.
    • Up x 5
  4. Doc Jim

    See, I was wondering how long it would take for some Terran sister to turn up and QQ about this change...

    Maxed out barrage can be active a full third of the time without any deployment requirement.

    Anchoring for 50% higher muzzle velocity costs nothing.

    All in all, this gives Prowlers more flexibility.

    This is a buff.
    • Up x 1
  5. Liewec123

    LOL you can melt through vanguards, shield included, and you're complaining about it.
    i'd change my useless vanguard for prowler in a heartbeat!
  6. AlcyoneSerene

    Was skeptical of this change and still am, since losing the infinite reload speed buff while anchored is significant. The velocity buff is definitely noticeable, and along with the 15 sec reload speed buff anytime will take a lot of getting used to, so I'm on the fence about it.

    If the servers weren't half-broken I'd be able to test out the change more, but getting D/C and regular lag spiking everyone is not fun for a game with so few players left, and it really can't afford to lose any more but it is.
  7. frozen north

    Dude. Unless the prowler has perfect accuracy, and the vanguard misses twice when both tanks are packing AP and Halberds and facing each others front, then the prowler will not win against the vanguard and its shield, no matter what.

    Vanguard needs roughly 8.5 seconds ( with enough halberd reload buffs) to light a prowler on fire from the front. When the fire starts, the prowler will be on 50 health, out of its initial 5000. That's less then a seconds worth of burn health.

    While that shield is up, the maximum damage a prowler can deal with AP halberd ( the most common anti tank loadout for every faction) max leveled anchored mode in effect, and maxed out reload buffs, is roughly 2200. Out of your vanguard 6k HP. Over the course of 8 seconds. And now you get even less then that.

    The issue is it guts sustainability and DPS for basically nothing worth while. Mobility sounds great on paper, no question. However, the vast majority of tank fights have both tanks sitting stationary, or nearly stationary when they take a shot, unless your a magrider, or at very close range.

    I know this, because this is the exact same for vanguards. And the vanguard was already unbeatable in CQC if its crew had good reaction time, or had the initiative. This change to the prowler just makes that fight even more in the vanguards favor.

    Admittedly, there's a lot of controversy in all of this. No question. But for a majority of prowler users who had managed to get used to quickly switching anchored to negate the movement penalty, and those who also find that mobility counts for jack in a tank unless you have magrider suspension, this is seen as a huge nerf.

    Also, 50% velocity is a temporary nerf, since it forces prowlers to relearn from scratch about anchored mode aiming.
  8. Traveller

    It is a nerf. Lockdown either does not work, or is complete **** now. In LD mod, supposedly, the prowlers big thing, or used to be, my ROF is appallingly slow. I have to use the new ability, just to match the old rate of fire I had...in LOCKDOWN mode. hagriders and vanuguards will have NO trouble outfiring a prowler, locked down or not. ANd with the ability? For a short period of time, we can sort-of-match their ROF.

    So glad I stopped these clods money.
  9. Movoza

    You might not always have the high ROF you want during Anchor mode, but in exchange you can get it while not anchored as well. Why omit this change in yiur argunents?

    In addition, you get anchor mode always, regardless of loadout. That means you can actually chose other things than high ROF and still have anchor mode.

    Then the ROF argument. You can't match it with the other tanks? How do you figure? ROF is obviously higher for the prowler, and if you mean DPS you don't know the tank well. Without the ROF increase it already has the highest DPS. So much so that if it misses 50% of it's shots, the Vanguard can only k8ss 25% of it's shots to match the DPS, while the magrider can only miss 20%. Activating the ROF increase only scews this further.

    It might be a nerf, it might be a buff. Sustained long range damage has been reduced, but short ranged fights can now benifit from instant high DPS, which is especially scary in numbers.

    Even if it's a nerf, the tank has been overperforming for a long time. I don't mind it much, but a toning down wouldn't be the worst thing.
    • Up x 3
  10. Demigan

    Yeah! The ability to use this regardless of what you are doing is absolutely useless! /s

    You tried to come up with an analogy for the Vanguard, and I have one for you: Imagine if the Vanguard shield required you to deploy. The deploy gives you 80% resistance to the front against incoming attacks and around 50% to the sides and top. Then this is changed to the current shield with 66% front and 33% sides, but it lasts for 15 seconds (because damn the Prowler ofcourse needs a longer lasting ability) and you can use it on the move.
    Even for the Vanguard, slow and not maneuverable Vanguard, the current shield ability is way better than the deploy. The deploy might be available any time, but the fact that you have to stop, deploy and wait for it to take effect is a huge downside that makes it far less omniversally useful.

    Because you don't know how to actually drive and only how to do non-moving slugfests?

    Where is that majority then? There seems to be a large majority that complained about this beforehand because they didn't understand it, and then a retraction when they realized their ability is better than having to Anchor. There's also some posts from people who still think Anchor is supposed to give you a reload boost and they complain that "only when I use the ability does my Anchor give a slightly noticeable reload boost". Can't trust the players to understand their own faction apparently.

    Seriously, it takes about 2 shots to "relearn". "Ooh boy, my gun got more velocity requiring less leading and drop to hit my target, I've temporarily been nerfed y'all!".
    • Up x 2
  11. Villanuk

    L/D was very situational and left you exposed to C4 fairies. Take in Mind all MBT have been nerfed over time, i do feel this will be more effective and versatile for Tank v Tank battles.

    Time will tell
  12. Liewec123


    i'll be sure to test this later,
    even before the 20,000 vanguard shield nerfs an anchored prowler would melt through the shield and then the vanguard if both vanny and prowler started firing at the same time, and now that prowler has access to that extreme nukage while mobile it should be no contest in actual gameplay landing shots to the side of the vanguard.

    i was gonna do the math but i cba since ROF isn't accurate and damage values don't account for resistances,
    so i'm simply going to have an ap vanguard and an ap prowler face eachother, activate their abilities and start firing. ;)
    • Up x 1
  13. typnct

    Ive tested it out on last anchor
    Vannie vs prowler
    Even while deployed the vannie won, no math is needed because the ability in itself is weaker
    You should test out if it helps out in back to side firing from 20 meters(in theory the prowler will win, in practice its harder than it it looks)
  14. JibbaJabba

    Folks you're going to have to use your Prowler the way NC and VS have to use theirs: Fire on the move.

    You've used lockedown for so long you've gotten soft. Firing on the move is frickin' hard.

    Now if you do this.. If you make this transition.. You'll win. You have the fastest overall tank, and you can burst to double dps when the time suits you. Me? I'll hold that sucker until the instant the vanguard shield drops and melt him.
    • Up x 1
  15. Zuprize

    Lockdown with AP is pretty decent at range with 375 muzzle velocitiy, helps clear the skies in some situations. New ability works best with HEAT rounds I guess, if anything HEAT would work best in most situations besides killing infantry, since Prowler HEAT can't oneshot infantry regardless if they are using flak or not.
  16. Luicanus


    It's a deal, once they introduce vehicle hacking I'll meet you on neutral ground and I'll gladly trade you my hunk of junk Prowler for a shiny new Vanguard.
  17. DrPapaPenguin

    The main problems I have with this change are:

    Prowler has always balanced its huge DPS increase with a huge drawback - immobility. The other nations have no downside whatsoever on their MBT specific abilities. And while increased velocity IS a welcome bonus, it's worth the immobility drawback when it's paired with fire rate buff. On its own - hell no, it makes lockdown downright worthless. In essence, this change has given the Prowler a small bit of versatility at the price of losing a massive amount of its speciality and flavour.

    THis would be a buff to those who never really specced into the lockdown before. It's a massive nerf imho to those who had, because we used to be able to do so much more with it than today.

    EDIT

    Honestly I'd be welcoming it with open arms if the Barrage was a sidegrade to the original lockdown. As it is, for me, it's a nerf.
    • Up x 1
  18. asmodraxus

    Well one second of higher speed for atrocious projectile speed/drop, terrible dps, forward speed and the same armor as a prowler isn't a trade off?

    OK so the Margriders boost needs to be nerfed while the Mag as a whole needs a massive buff, see wrels 3 month main gun kills for reference. :)
  19. frozen north

    Never said worthless in of itself. Worthless by comparison, yes it is.

    I figure I should point out that there is absolutely no way you could ever beat a vanguard that was deployed with that ability. You can't burst fight it, since it can out burst, and have a higher effective DPS then any opponent. It could be repaired continuously and likely never go down. Once you learn how to stop the tank quickly, then congrats, you have a supremely powerful ability in the hands of those who know how to use it.

    So what if its not omniversal from the get go. With a few hours of practice to learn quick deploying ( or literally just go to any tank slug fest on connery, since this will be supremely useful there) and ta da, you can now use the ability to its full potential, and make it omniversal through practice.

    BTW, if vangaurd shield lasted 15 seconds with its current resistances and cooldown, that would make it unbeatable in tank combat once every 25 seconds or so. Just thought I should mention that.
    The day I see a tank battle involving vanguards, lightnings, or prowlers where drivers actually move at full speed on rough terrain, and fire accurately at targets over 200 meters away simultaneously for an entire battle, on that day I will consider this statement as having merit. Believe me when I say, every tank driver I have ever seen that's not in a magrider slows to a complete or near complete stop before taking a shot. If you are not doing this yourself, then either your blind to your own actions, or that one very special snow flake.
    Well duh. That happens with bloody every faction that some people don't understand their own faction. The reason they mostly complained is cause they did not have the patience or sufficient practice to actually make anchored mode useful outside of its most common scenario, where tanks pop out of cover, dump shells, retreat to cover, repair, and repeat. This is also the most common fight for every tank. Many players used it to great effect in that basic scenario, but often lacked the calmness needed to put it to use out side of that scenario ( say, open terrain, roads, etc).
    Boy I wish it only took 2 shells to relearn elevation work for gunnery, especially when im trying to hit air targets. And yeah, once you do get back into the swing of things, great, your better off then before, but when your last 200 gameplay hours have taught you one thing, its a little tricky to instantly rewrite that thought process. I never said it would be a disadvantage for long either.
  20. frozen north

    Single man vs single man, prowler usually wins. Mostly thanks to it having 40-48% higher base DPS. With two man crews however, vanguards usually win in battles with each side having good aim, and using abilities. That was with old anchored mode. Should be a bit more of a noticeable difference now.

    Fair, but on the other hand, I usually don't see many vanguards firing while at full speed either. Those that I do see also usually struggle to hit the broad side of a barn. And besides, everyone already has the lightning to practice with, so soft may be a bit of an exaggeration.

    Also, prowler may have the best top speed, but its only by 6 kph. Not exactly huge.

    Lastly, 50% dps jump. It only goes up to about 50% extra now, not double like it could with anchored.