1 Month MBTs main gun stats by Wrel.

Yeah...you are one of the dudes that says that it's great at long range and even at short range...and neither one is supported by those numbers at all.

Are you high? Can you point me to where I'm saying those things?

Also do you know the concept of an average? The Magrider might get kills in extreme long range and extreme short range to get those stats, thats why I've always advocated showing the 50% of the center of a bellcurve ranges that get scored. For example like this: 100 (20-160). In this case the average range is 100m, but with many of that data being in CQC for a vehicle (20m) and up to 160m.
If you dont understand the numbers, look up how a bell-curve works.

As a VS main and Mag user, I do find these stats not particularly surprising, in that its not a great head on mbt or particularly effective at range sniping, but as a 'surprise!' killer, it is extremely effective.

Head to head, it is most effective at the median point, where its strafe adds survivability.

And tbh I can't recall Demigan saying those things. I may have missed it, but certainly can't recall it.

Unfortunately thats more likely because of textwalls than memory.

There no percentage of users, maybe it was only 50 Magriders, who did all job, and 1000 Vanguards where each did 5-6 kills.

Wrel missed the mark.

I don't thing most "HESH Shatters" are MBTs. They are lightnings.

Also: LOL @ AP Vanguard. LOL I say.

The interpretation of data is all too often wrong. Too many people, when given a spread sheet, think they understand the data. This is true of reports in the business world and in science, let alone here. And all too often, if untrained, a person's bias goes into the intrepretation.

"I like HESH and I invented HESH" becomes, "See? Nothing wrong with HESH here (leaves out the vehicle that uses HESH the most from psuedo analysis).

Too many people fail to understand the larger set of variables that so often go into understanding a data set.

Most problems in data anyalsis fall into Logic 101 class descriptions. False causation, etc.

Ever since Mythic Entertainment started changing Dark Ages of Camelot based on their use of "metrics" I've been very wary of any game company that does the same.

Here are some buzzword phrases that should make you extra wary of the user:

1. We use "metrics"
2. Thru Agile Project Development we are able to provide continual frequent delivery
3. We're changing paradigms
4. We leverage lift through cross-functional tiger-teams

Honestly, I don't find these numbers to be all that surprising. In my experience, AP has long been the single best option for the prowler, and by a large margin. Same can be said for NC taking HESH more then AP. When a cannon has that long a reload, a marginal difference in AV power for a huge boost in AI power makes sense.

Magrider... this is the one that did surprise me a bit. Mainly that magriders are fighting at the closest ranges. Maybe this is just my " You have an agile machine and the saron is an option. Why close in?" mind set showing, but still a bit of a shocker. And yeah they have the worst HESH, but to be fair, it used to do roughly the same, if not the exact same splash as the NC HESH, but reloaded almost a second faster.

And maybe this is just me, but honestly, I have never found HESH to be a popular pick, with the sole exception of the Vanguard. I mean, the lightnings HEAT is amazing, Prowler AP is arguably its best pick, and the magriders never use HESH since it got nerfed into oblivion.

In fact Wrel's data are wrong from 2 points of view:
- He is not considering the Lightning at all, for which HESH is obviously the go-to choice.
- AP has the highest kills counter for MBT because of the kills one gets in tank va tank. But when it's tank vs infantry HESH is 1 shot = 1 kill, because players are still reluctant to use Flak over Nanowave.

It's sad that so much after CAI we still have to convince the team about things that are blatantly imbalanced.
I mean... Why are we still fighting with C4-side, why is Flanker Armor still a total waste of certs?

Saron is terrible at range. It blooms so hard that using at "long range" just makes it do piddly damage so it's better used up close.
If you want ranged damage you take the halberd like the other 2 factions.

Also man... this nagging about HESH shatters is getting old.

I do it on a rare occasion. It gets done to me regularly. /shrug. It's a viable part of the game folks. You should have seen it when HESH was called HE and all the tanks ran Infantry revealing green night vision.

Harasser's being a nuisance to infantry has the same root cause: Everyone thinks someone else is going to solve the problem.

Take 2 minutes out of your life to switch to heavy with ground lockon's and be done with it. One HA can "bother" two lightnings enough that they are no longer able to engage in HESH Shatting. Grab a handful of guys in your squad. Say 4-5. With focus fire you could clear half of them from your base in moments.

So right. So why are tankers and pilots complaining about lockons/c4? I mean...you don't even need 4 or 5 to kill some heavy holding a lockon/c4, right? You just need to aim...

Please pass w/e your smoking with your NC BUDS!

https://forums.daybreakgames.com/ps2/index.php?threads/about-shredder.248845/#post-3497314

Agreed! I remember when the stats site was still open, I saw most often less Magriders being pulled by Vanu than the other factions, but they did do a lot more stuff per life. So even though numbers like Wrel is showing suggested that Magriders were lagging behind, they seemed to me to be very competitive.
In addition, I would rather want stats of the combinations. In my experience a Magrider becomes a lot more powerful with a top gunner than the Prowler for example. This way the vehicle kills are dominated by the Prowler by a significant margin, but adding top guns might show the other tanks to be competitive or even king. (Note I don't believe that. My personal experience shows the high DPS, easy rangefinding, less punishing 2 shot and long range of the thing being insanely strong.)

All in all the stats currently favour the Prowler with some significant differences in most categories (not as some people think "marginally"), but it might be a whole different story with more data.

Well Thank you for misinterpreting, but nice try though!
1: we are talking Magrider canons as it is now/at the time of writing. You've just referenced something 4+years ago thay I wrote a ahort while ago.
2: neither of us might mention it specifically, but our discussion was about the AV range of Magriders, focused on MBT vs MBT combat. Theres little talk about one MBT having a longer range AI power anywhere, at best you'll find people complaining about the Prowler doing HE from a distance and Magriders eating up infantry at close range after getting into a base.

If you're asking why people complain it's because people complain.

My recollection of the early game is this:
Vehicles were lethal to infantry at all ranges. HE was brutal instant instagib and night vision made spotting infantry including C4 fairies very easy. EDIT: Demo:
Infantry were lethal to Vehicles at all ranges. At long range AV Mana Turrests would kill them like fish in a barrel. At close ranges, Decimators hit hard enough that you could induce panic in a driver if you got a shot to the rear.


My assessment of the current game:
Infantry and vehicles have been nerfed to the point where it's like fighting with padded bats. Nothing short of half a squad of focus fire does anything to vehicles at range. Vehicles remain lethal to infantry but struggle to target them. Nothing infantry does up close is particularly effective. The only thing left after all the lethality washed out is C4. Vehicles are no longer deadly enough to intercept C4 fairies so those run amok. As much as everyone complains about HESH, it's just not frightening at all if you saw what it used to be.

I come late to this thread and I need to say that I am not a tank user. I do, however, have a lot of statistical experience and three things stand out for me as being important questions:

• Lower or higher number of total kills could just be a function of lower or higher number of vehicles used by each faction during the measured period couldn't it? rather than an indication of effectiveness;
• range at which kills are achieved is lower for VS overall but I have heard that the Maggy is a closer range, skirmishing sort of tank. If so, that could simply be an indication of different tactics maybe?
• What kills are being measured? Planetmans or vehicle kills and what type of vehicles?

Apologies if these queries have already been posted (I didn't read all the posts ofc!) but my general point is that raw data - which is what Wrel's post are - can be open to a great many interpretations.

haha... lately i have been adicted to hesh tank. you see that 63k kills for the hesh vanguard? im resposible for a big chunk of that haha... i did it with the magrider befor it got nerfed.. man... mag hesh was something. i promis you, there is no problem that HESH vanguard wont solve

[link fail] Picture of very large male chicken........