Nice try. Go attack a TR base, you'll see TR maxes. You seem to be struggling to support these arguments. I *just* posted the stats on a TR and NC weapons demonstrating the TR has a faster TTK inside 18m. "NC MAX is just straight up superior" is an opinion. Mercy point blank TTK of 0.99 is a fact. May I suggest: Go play NC tonight and go on a MAX bender. Go tear it up.... if you can. Do this for a week and see if you still have the same opinion. Everyone remembers clearly the time an NC Max straight up gibbed them before they could react. Everyone forgets the times they laugh at that NC MAX in the distance, or got chip damage from one indoors and safely disengaged. A similar experience happens with everything in the game and it just naturally distorts perception. Infiltrators suffer from this a lot. Everyone remembers the stab or headshot, but forgets all the times they caught an infiltrator uncloaked somewhere.
We currently have at least one "nerf magrider"-thread open...because it...ehm..can climb hills and kite stupid players(which is exactly what MBTs are there for, right? RIGHT?). And seriously, this place was filled with "nerf magburner", "nerf ZOE", "nerf lancer", "nerf Canis"-threads when those have been OP according to NC. Now all your whining comes back to your empire cause after all of that got nerfed you own almost all the OP toys(aside from striker and prowler main gun). You get a taste of your own medicine and what are you doing? You complain about that. I have not seen you defending ZOE or Canis....
TR and NC MAX pull rates are not even in same numerical system a TR MAX does not have a faster TTK because it has terrible accuracy. The default tactic against a TR or VS MAX is: pull out your rocket launcher Shoot the MAX go back behind cover reload the rocket launcher peak out again and shoot go back behind cover pull out LMG and start shooting bullets. or you just C4 them. the default tactic against a NC MAX is: You pull out your rocket launcher. you press respawn or you just C4 them. and why would i log onto my NC? they already have the constant prenerf VS canis pop, i don't need to add to that. and noone EVER laughs at a NC MAX in the distance. because everyone knows that that NC MAX in the distance will come visit you at the objective so you will do absolutely EVERYTHING you can do to kill it as fast as possible and will start sweating everytime you get within 30m of it and the next cover is more than 1m away.
Yeah, can't remember the times when I have seen a Max and thought "wow, let's laugh, they can't harm me anyway". I got to agree that I ain't too worried about a MAX in a distance...but: a) this counts for TR MAXes too(and my blueshifts feel like a wonky pellet gun on longer ranges as well) b) this counts for anything but a sniper or vehicle. c) I don't see AI-Maxes fighting at long ranges at all. They usually just run for the next building. ANY AI-Max. I don't get why you assume that players laugh about NC Maxes. It's just in your head...
So, I assume VS wishes to ***** that NC's maxes aren't matched in Close-quarters by their Guns, but don't want to equalize weapons.. without ensuring only NC is still tied by RNGesus? Or are we talking about gutting the NC's max AI capability when RNGesus allows, so NC starts screwed if Maxes actually become worth the nanites? Why in hell, exactly, are the Maxes not swinging the same weapons to begin with? That's a TR player on the Magrider thread. We've had around 3 threads, asking for VS Snipers & all weapons to be hit-scan, Cloak-able MBTs for VS, Anti-Armor capabilities for all VS weapons, Flying VS-only Maxes, and that Lancer fire be able to be perfect at all ranges. Canis had head hit-box altering Ammo, for ***** sake.. Which nuked NC & TR, since a body-shot was a head-shot that had a head-shot multipler for damage, on SMG that was crap outside of the Miss-the-target-and-score-head-shot spam.. NC? Phoenix got nerfed the fastest out of every possible OP Weapon. Phoenix has tons of threads, to further reduce the weapon's damage, range (270), and prevent it from firing from spawn (yet, only do that, but not make it more practical)... Shotguns have been nerfed in general repeatedly, NC has no only AI options that aren't Shotguns for Maxes, Their only Heavy weapon is a shotgun, their special ES pistol also includes a Shotgun.. Their Directive trait, they finally got, on 1 gun: Given not long afterwards to VS.. which VS then claimed NC stole in this game, from VS, not from PS1, but PS2... We have more threads about nerfing RNGesus' capabilities, NC's RPM if no one-shot-misses with perfect accuracy, than we have NC directed threads aimed at VS or TR.. We have threads by TR, complaining about VS, we have VS complaining that they need head-hitbox modifiers, that they need cloaked tanks, That the Vanguard Shield should have a RNG-component to function (I am not kidding) That NC shotguns in close-quarters out-preform chain-guns inside 10 meters... and No one from VS or TR wants to replace NC guns with anything but Shotguns, only add shotguns to their side & strip NC's damage down.. amazing. VS Holds the majority of "GIVE ME", "WE ARE BEING PATCHED OUT" threads, and complaint threads on themselves or others. TR has nerf threads, and buff threads on others. NC has the record of being the target of threads, but not actually writing threads.. Most Threads on "NERF THIS" about VS, are from TR. The Tank thread.. about magrider.. That literally says TR right on it. Unless NC magically gained Prowlers.. As stupid as that thread is, it also isn't NC's thread. So dear lord.
The entirety of the NC MAX proposal always boils down to: make them tengus, not Jackhammers. Only NC don't want to lose shotguns. But hey, i guess Phoenix just got nerfed faster than anything else because everyone who always switches faction to abuse OP stuff already is always on NC so they could all instantly buy the Phoenix when it released, as opposed to VS or TR OP stuff they first had to switch and cert up stuff.
You recall the last NC Max thread, it was add shotguns to VS & TR as options.. and that summed up VS & TR's idea.. Or screw NC's shotguns. NC, quite a few, would happily exchange Shotguns for the same weapon class... So then All Maxes have the same damn weapon type, making balance EASY. Rather than "Shotgun vs Chaingun\Machine-gun" Which puts it in a rock-vs-paper\Scissors with which thing the other side, being dependent on range.. Which with Maxes, obviously puts the Chaingun\Machine gun in a bad spot, until the Shotgun is in a horrid-spot.. But if they were all the same type, Then they have all the same damn considerations. Phoenix's original nerf, was the fastest.. In the same Era as the Gate-Keeper, and Saron originals.. Phoenix brought up as "NERF Fodder" when a glitch allowed reloading mid-flight, 98% of TR & VS went "Remove Spawn-room fire, and revert that bug" - Essentially cut off the RPM, and the safe-zone of "Why was this a thing in the first place" While having the Striker... not mentioned once, by either VS or TR, for what it does. As if, NC's Phoenix was a starter weapon.. NC also has to buy Mattlocks, both of them, and then the legendary Slugs for both.. Which is more than VS or TR, in getting that AI capability, which is one arm, no upgrades needed. I'm amused you didn't dispute the sheer number of VS threads on the everything.
And so goes on another thread complaining about something working in absolute perfect circumstances thinking it was OP because it worked in it's absolute perfect circumstances. Why can't people complain about something that always works and almost never has a downside?
I see, it ain't anymore about the nerf threads but by which toon they are created by AT THIS VERY MOMENT IN TIME. Now that is really important. NOT. For me the topic matters. Lately those have been phoenix, scat-Max, airhammer, vanguard shield, striker, prowler shelling, "magriders can kite". Aside from that we have the usual "vehicles too strong", "AV(C4 fairies especially) too strong", "air too strong", "AA too strong"-stuff depending on whether someone is a vehicle farmer or not....and then some complaints about Harassers being OP. All of that is going on for many months, partly years. If a nerf really hits then those complaints usually stop rather quickly(when was the last time you saw someone complaining about AV-turret being OP? ZOE?). So it likely got a reason. And no, it's not personal perception this time while it was fair when it hit others back in the day. NC ES pistols? Really? Who is using ES pistols in this game? VS at least don't....and that's not because they are so great. ;-)
no i don't. i took a break from the forums because they always end in the same way with people denying the truth because of faction loyalty. i only came back when the new BR stats started to appear and more juicy math could be done. but hey, if we base current balance on "how long it took devs that don't work at the company anymore to nerf a totally unrelated item 4 years ago" then i guess we have to nerf the canis again. and then nerf the mjöllnir again cause it's a vehicle weapon and vehicle weapons stay OP for a long time and... oh wait no, that suddenly turned into a merely "unrelated" weapon, not a "totally unrelated" weapon. and literally EVERYONE says the striker is OP in it's current form. what the **** have you smoked that you think people believe it's balanced? and price has 0 influence on balancing. like ZEEEERO.
Okay, so when did the Guy talking about TR infantry weapons & TR Prowlers being crap against VS, make it an NC thread? That was literally the thread you mention, and it was all about VS vs TR. Yes lately, NC has been the target of a lot of VS. Same with C-4. Where's the threads written about how NC can't engage a TR or VS weapon, making it OP? Where's the threads comparing NC gear to VS or TR, with the VS\TR side not coming out inferior? ZOE? Yeah, the original was "holy ****, this is murderously good". The nerfed was "holy ****, this is suicide to use" TR, has had the Gate-Keeper, the Prowler itself, Pounder, Striker, Vulcan VS, has had the Orion, the Beetlegeuise, the Saron, the Scythe, PPA, Lancer NC, Shotgun, Shotgun, Shotgun, Vanguard Shield, Phoenix What is consistent, Bashing on shotguns. What is also consistent: Bashing on Vanguard Shield What slides by, or should've, without complaint: Striker, Canis' Unstable Ammo, Saron, Gate-Keeper, Magrider HEAT (Oddest possible change by Daybreak, and seemingly miss-placed), Beetleguise performance higher than any directive weapon, The content of these threads, that aren't written by NC, against VS. Most of the threads on this Site, are written by VS, when it comes to complaints, or TR. NC is the most frequent commentator: As usually, it's about bashing a NC weapon into the ground again. Canis? We have VS stating they deserved & needed the head-shot-enlargement ammo with full head-shot modifier. That the VS Deserved a Cloaking Magrider. That they deserved hit-scan weapons.. TR has less threads even than threads about buffing VS, complains about weakness of VS, or any topic that benefits VS, than NC has about either side's gear, or even their own. There is more threads targeted at NC equipment, with the motive to just strip them down hard, or enhance VS or TR gear over them hard, then any indication of NC gear needing buffs, or adjustments in favor of NC. Like unless you Figure, an NC benefits from TR weapon upgrades, & tank upgrades to the Prowler.. Your listed thread about the "Magrider OP" , lists everything TR is inferior to VS.. Which makes it the most ironic thing to claim NC is saying the Magrider is OP, when NC is absent entirely from it. Now the Canis threads; Yeah, that was NC & TR, both who got nailed by the head-shot spam. Lucky you, It's a mess, and yeah. That Loyality is everywhere; it's why I mention the "Hitscan for VS" threads As Everyone already mentions the few threads NC wants something, but forgets the dozen of VS demands, the VS "We need a flying advantage", when shooting down any buff to anything NC in the slightest. Canis itself, is screwed in the current version: the original was too potent & only from that ammo. It's a perfect example of something VS tried to claim was a required advantage over TR & NC, they deserved. I mention the time it took for vehicle weapons to change, yet NC's weapon from the same time, changed in days. NC has something, it gets a much quicker whack often enough; That was the point of that reference. Vanguard Shield has been altered a lot: it's a soloist tool, in a team-game, that benefits the user over anything. And the tank has to be built around this drastic capability, much like the over specialized NC Max. I didn't say no one mentioned the Striker is OP. I said it didn't get as much attention as anything else. Do you see threads on the Striker? How about the Phoenix? yes. Vanguard shield? Yes, a VS even suggested it needs a % chance to not even function. NC's shotguns? twice, each time, it's to degrade the specialized weapon, or add it to VS & TR, while NC gets no further options. We have TR & VS, happily more focused on nailing the NC's airborne shotgun in select situations, over handling TR's Anti-air capabilities. I mention price, as you mention the whole 'switch & easily access' as if the Phoenix was more accessible from a gate-keeper. That, and NC is quite literally needing more certs to get to the Level of firepower NC is apparently balanced around. Not a balancing reference, but stating how much more NC needs to spend, to get to their 'apparent' level of firepower that VS & TR always claim every single Max is packing.
Current Canis is actually pretty good. UA ofcourse is 100% useless and a straight downgrade that you should never ever use anymore, so similar to ZOE, but atleast we got softpoint there on all weapons with access to it instead of just nothing. and ofcourse an almost pure AA weapon doesn't get as many threads as something every ground player will run into in every single base they are fighting in and can clearly compare the experience of fighting against it's different versions per faction. Every VS knows that the TR MAX is usually a lesser threat than a normal infantryman Every TR knows that the VS MAX is usually a lesser threat than a normal infantryman both know that the NC MAX is a living nightmare and needs to be priority 1. and then the spawnroom phoenix isn't OP. It's just ******* broken, terrible game design and ruins any fun that could be had fighting against NC between scatmaxes. Magrider currently is a Tragedy anyway, there is a reason we refer to it as a heavy harrasser: use it as a tank: you are dead. period. you will have no chance against anything. but this is something the vanguard excels at, every BR1 can pull a vanguard and can play to it strengths. use the magrider as a flanking tool and mountain goat and you suddenly have a dangerous vehicle. but all in all the current list of wildly imbalanced stuff is simple: NC MAX compared to TR and VS MAX Kobalt compared to other AI topguns CAS14E compared to other Valk noseguns Striker + Banshee combo well and ZOE being absolute garbage. also fun fact: VS used to have the only hitscan weapon in the game
@LordKrelas: Show me the statistic how many threads have been made by whom. I don't care for your subjective opinion. Seriously, comming here and pretending that it's always the other factions and not the NC...yeah...whatever...
You started with that same logic. And brought up the "magrider op" thread as a NC created issue. And I never said NC doesn't make negative threads. I said VS makes the most threads in general: And if you look, VS does actually. And NC is the most constant Topic by others; Not that they don't post. Not to mention, if you don't care for mine, that's reasonable. But seriously, You did literally start it. Like.. According to NC.. Yeah we NC, like to Field Prowlers, and call our TR infantry weapons **** in the weirdest thread possible. That is the only Thread in weeks on the Magrider. And no NC is even involved in that one. The ancient ZOE: well, the modern is suicide, the ancient was complained by TR & NC Lancer, again both TR & NC, as go figure extreme-range AV that can delete things in groups is pretty scary. Canis: UA attachment, was the issue, That VS defended as "OP, and deserved" Not an NC thing, TR also complained logically. Yeah totally NC holds the OP toys. We have a Shield that is the oddest choice (and hardest to balance), AI shotguns, Aircraft Shotguns, Shotgun Pistol, and low RPM High-Damage-per Bullet weapons, with a Firing-delay Sniper, A second full-auto Shotgun as a Heavy weapon, and a guided missile out-repaired by a Grenade. Each has some severe toys - Not just NC. NC however also has the lowest rating in the alerts, contests, outside of Set-numbers, High-skilled player use in the most controlled environment possible -- which is where the situational high-skill weapons Shine hard-core. Go figure. You started it, with blaming NC. I just gave the same manner, with all of the threads posted: Which has a crap load of VS complaints on the everything. Edit; To clarify, as apparently I will need to. No, I didn't just call NC underpowered. I just mocked the notion that NC has all the OP toys - Shield is dominating as hell easily. Shotguns, when in their strict environment. A grand chunk of NC gear, ES at that, does not shine all that bright at all. NC doesn't have the Original Gate-Keeper, nor did it ever have it, nor did it have the Saron. Nor did did ever have a ZOE -- We have had nerfs on all manner of gear. We have the only sniper-rifle, complained about, that has a firing delay which isn't severe enough apparently. We have RPM that isn't apparently low enough.. We have a Tank, that logically, is BS in single encounters - But is screwed in prolonged fights. We have a Max that massacres in close-combat, but can't sustain. NC is essentially, what the Lasher is: Incredibly specific to a situation. Easily ****e for other things. Not to say, the Lasher is equal to a Shotgun in 3-10 meters -- not even close. There is a reason, I liked a particular post that quoted me. I'll leave that one to others to figure why.
Confirmation bias given. But wheres your proof? I already asked for where people get their sources and funnily enough they ignore it. Why oh why would that be? Could it be that... Oh dear god its almost to horrid to think about... YOU COULD BE WRONG? Well we know you are wrong and actual usage statistics would prove that (beyond all the rest that proves it), but to see it out there where you cant just close of your ears go "LALLALALALALALA" and say NC MAX's are OP anyway anymore... Yeah that cant happen right.
as i'm one of those 2 i wonder who the other guy is? lancer lets you countersnipe infils, deal damage to any vehicle that you can see within 400m (even air if you can aim) its pinpoint accurate, has no drop and its borderline hitscan, it is absolutely my favourite long range infantry AV option in the game. (also my second favourite thing to use against harassers, second only to MCG which shreds them so satisfyingly!) am i calling for a nerf? hell no i'll leave that to VS!
LOL. Zoe needs fixed. I think that's universal and everyone in NC supports this. And the Canis? You're damn right I called for a nerf on that. Don't get me wrong though, I gorged on certs during the few days it was OP. Gorged. That thing was hilariously OP. You could get in tight quarters and just hipfire in the upper half of your enemies and mow them down with headshots. Glad they got that fixed quick though. People were going to quit the game over that crap. It doesn't bolster your argument that you compare NC MAX with things like the original Canis. It just makes the reader want to call BS.
Because I laugh at them when I play other factions. They are like T-Rexes with little stubby arms that can't reach anything. Ferocious up close, hilarious at distance. When I say distance, I'm talking indoor distances though. Go into a powerhouse building at ground floor with a MAX guarding the big stairs from the top of the stairs. It it's a TR MAX, you're in trouble. If it's an NC MAX you can just play peekaboo, kill his engy, and wear him down. He can't kill you from up there. (not sure if you guys knew this or not). If he's running Mattocks he can kill you if you aren't careful with your peekaboo. If he's running scats or especially hacksaws you'll be able to retire to your cover with dropped shield but full health. Really everyone: Go log some hours playing anything that gives you trouble. If you think the NC Max is OP, go log some hours in it. You'll figure out two things: 1. It ain't OP. 2. How to exploit it's weaknesses.
gladly http://stats.dasanfall.com/ps2/items/weapons just click the kdr you can see that the only weapons that are above the mattock are the sniper rifles and vehicle weapons
