[Suggestion] Upcoming construction changes

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by karlooo, Apr 9, 2018.

  1. AtckAtck

    With the removal off wall invulnerability, i think they will kill base Building...

    Base Building used to be fun when it came out, because of being a small fortress.
    The Towers where deadly back then. The ai of the turrets was decent. They where somewhat dumb, but quick to react and deadly.
    Especially the infantry Tower. The AT Tower could be used to snipe infantry too.
    The dumb cried about it being unfair, so it was nerfed hard. The Towers are now slow, reduced tracking range, reduced accuracy and reduced damage. WOW, that i call a hard nerf. If such a nerf would have been done to mbt tanks, i can only imagine the angry Forum Posts. But not so for bases, the Building community is small so we are basically unheard, sadly.

    Now they cried about even having to attack bases, because of hives. So hives removed...
    They cried about indestructible walls. Walls removed...

    Where should the fun for base builder be?! I dont build a base to be a giant punching bag that cannot defend.
    Even now Building a base solo takes about 20-30 minutes. Destroying one solo, if done right, takes about 5 minutes.
    When will the nerfs be finished? When it takes only 1 Minute with a small arms weapon?

    I don't trust daybreak to get those changes right. They will just make it fun to destroy bases, not build them.
    From my Point of view they are garanteed to fail with their idea, because they do not listen to base builders.
    Sure, attacking a base should be fun. I am Ok with that. But Building one has to be fun too and i think they totally forgot about that.
    • Up x 1
  2. LordKrelas

    Killing Construction, by making it so TR isn't the only side able to break a wall?

    The dumb: Those who realized a completely autonomous turret with 360-degree vision & near instant reaction, able to land near perfect shots, without a single player operator at incredible ranges, allowed a mountain to be used as a self-repairing vehicle sniping location if you built some AV turrets.
    After all, having the AI, be as lethal as a player, matched with numerous turrets, with the perks of being automated, is intelligent..
    All without a player actually having to be there - making the Farm for the Builder easy.

    MBTs are actually piloted by people - and fighting actual players.
    Not Turrets, that are controlled by the system itself, granting a Builder EXP without lifting a finger.
    Those only attacked actual players.

    Hives: Sitting in a hole, granted an infinite VP source, with VPs that could not be lost.
    While also never being stopped, only delayed, with EXP boosts for all actions nearby.
    Half the map was barely equal to a single PMB jammed into a hell-hole, and only for aa time.

    Oh gee, I don't know, where's the fun in smashing your face into a self-regenerating wall, and turret complex, that is entirely automated, for the smallest amounts of EXP, in a base designed to discourage wanting to be there?

    You're getting automated Pain-fields, on top of already having more options than the Lattice can dream of.
    I'm sorry, your meat-grinder isn't having everyone else forced into it, robbing you of "fun"

    If PMB's were actually not built like hell-holes (as is encouraged by their nature)..
    It might actually be "fun" to engage.
    But they aren't.

    They also have no present organic motivations.
    It's been either forced into one-sided-meat-grinder against a PMB or realize, someone has to eventually, or the map closes.

    Hives were the most moronic thing to release.
    If you want fun in PMB's, perhaps they should have a purpose, that is mutual, not one-sided.
  3. AtckAtck

    Even in the "old" days. There was never a fight where you could "farm" with your turrets and leaving your base unattended.
    This is ********. And you know that.

    I agree with hives tho, they are a bad mechanic that was thought up to get others a reason to attack the base. So without hives, where is the reason now? Of Course i can build a Blockade base, but even then it can be bypassed most of the time. The hive at least forced some to attack. I don't see base fights improving with the removal of hives.

    I agree that the old anti infantry Tower was a bit too hard to survive, not even having a Chance to retreat. That was a bit unfair.
    But now it is a friggin tickling cannon... You can basically walk from one end to the other of a base, going from cover to cover, soaking up the some hits the Tower does. This is ridiculous. Also when sitting inside one, have you every tried to kill infantry with it? It is near to impossible. When piloted this Thing is a better anti armor gun than actually an anti infantry gun. This alone is enough proof that it does not fulfill its intented purpose: killing infantry

    You dont like bases. I get that. You dont like attacking bases, then dont do it. Still no reason to spout out obvious lies about base buillder having an easy farm of infantry. Joker...
    • Up x 2
  4. Leandre

    You are assuming too many things and not fun to read at all!
    You are not even proposing anything, you are just ************ every ideas we got.
  5. LordKrelas

    I proposed Idea's actually.

    As well, I don't design my posts to be "fun" to read.
    Not to mention, if you aren't spawning there, where you actually were fighting... There is only a limited number of places to respawn.
    Respawn has a range limit, outside of respawning at the warpgate each death when in a hostile hex:
    Which is insanity, just to allow Builders 2 entire minutes to rebuild.

    {
    PMBs should organically support the lattice gameplay, with supporting effects.
    This grants motive to attack & defend, without forcing the hand of anyone into one-sided Meat-grinders.
    Most builders, seem to want their PMB's to be required to the point, that No choice is given.
    Rather than promote mutual motives to interact with each other, it's often "PMB exists, Lattice bends to the will of Builder"
    Or "PMB Exists, all players must now engage the PMB on the PMB's terms - no practical choice."
    To the lovely "If you wish to play the game, you must now use this completely separate system, as Construction exists"
    The last references, the 2-minutes of respawn, to rebuild anything broken.. which also gives enough time to kill any Sundy, unless using Construction.
    Killing all lattice attacks, that aren't based on PMB fortresses - while buffing the hell out of PMB respawn.
    }
    This massive chunk, that was a suggestion.


    Farm is basically, any assault - Didn't say the base lasted against what usually swarmed it: A zerg or a platoon with absolutely no intentions of sticking around.
    However, building AV Towers on hills, that automatically fired for bloody miles... yeah that was annoying as hell.
    Did they all these turrets hard? Both for Lattice & PMB.
    How about AI? Only useful for PMB's, and got nerfed hard, when not manually used: Go figure.

    Hard to balance a weapon, that is set up with an auto-repair system, perfect 360 vision, machine-level reaction speed, without it being either crap or godly.

    You do realize, with Hives, and the present mantra of forcing any attack to use PMBs or suffer 2 minutes of respawn..
    Means No one can afford to not attack the PMB's, if they want to actually play the game.
  6. AuraBliss

    I don't think they quite got what they wanted out of the construction system.. The fact that they had to force into the game with hives was point enough of that statement. If they wanted this system to work they should have allowed construction outside of bases just not inside them and make the wargate contain a massive hive for creating cort. for alerts increase the max required cort for the alert and just make it instantly go towards the alert. However all cort spawns should be centered on the maps away from all the warpgates the more closer to center the bigger the spawns and outside of center should have small spawns this way ant users will have to make long tracks back and forth to get cort for the alerts.

    Though like stated before construction can still be useful just needs to be applied in away where its meaningful I have done many aggressive base outposts to help take zones just need the right mind set for it.
  7. karlooo

    @LordKrelas

    Btw I don't rly know how to reply to you, with what you replied to my post before. If you have some negation with what I mentioned can you pls reply with some examples, and ideas, why my statement is incorrect?
    For example I mentioned that bases can be destroyed by a single person and you start talking about bases shouldn't be meat grinders lol.
    Or I mention base building squads, and why they aren't good. (they could be good but we have no leaders that understand construction)
    And you reply that this is a teamwork game and construction isn't meant to be solo...can you please reply with some examples why my statement are incorrect, like I don't know what to say to this.

    And sry but I have no idea what you said in the last paragraph.
  8. karlooo

    About the base building squads. Here is my example.

    [IMG]

    So this would make sense to me. So we have a alpha squad for base building. Lets say enemies are taking over Howling pass checkpoint. And our leader tells us to hold NS Material Storage, we will be getting no allied support because they are taking over some other territories and we must hold this area. Tells use alpha 1,2,3,4 will be holding the two entrances in the front leading to NS Material Storage, Alpha 5 will be holding bridge between Crimson Bluff Tower and NS Material Storage. And alpha 6 will be creating a base on the hill covering 1,2,3,4 from the top.
    To me this would make sense...except galaxies will just pass it lol (AA tickles fighter planes even when manned, AI doesn't detect anything). Don't even know if a faction has 6 base builder players in total, no one builds xd.

    [IMG]

    This is what the leader did in every different base building squad (example lol). Ok let me look for a nice spot...ooh this looks nice, ok all 10 players we will be heading there. *we head there, resupply, build whatever everywhere, and sit there for 20 min without it being touched cause it's in the middle of nowhere, build a hive, get attention from 3 enemies, and then continent locks, wow we where useful.

    Like squads could be nice but barely anyone does building, and most people don't get it.
    And I already mentioned this but some bases can be indestructible if multiple players build on the same spot. Too many structures, not possible to destroy it all...not sure what the devs will do when players will start doing this on the capturable territories with allowed structures near it (the ones with one point, and structures allowed to be built on the territory). This could be abused but no one does building so yeahh..
  9. karlooo

    Thanks everyone for posting comments here, all give some valid points, and also keeping this topic alive lol.

    What I'm starting to get is that the base building cannot be done solo, would be perfectly used in squads but sadly there are no good base building squads, leaders. So we are left building these solo bases which are basically punching bags and cannot be defended.

    So what I think would save construction are good squad leaders.
  10. Leandre

    It can be done solo but you have to be ingenious, as example I just nuked a base by constructing an Orbital Strike over a mountain with a turbo ant! They tryed to get rid of it but on high ground I had advantage, I did build right between 2 vanu's hive.

    And when I'm saying that respawning is way to quickly, i'm not only talking about PMB's. Have you guys ever tryed to play medic class? It's really fun trying to rez people who will actually hit respawn as soon as they can... Then you get killed a lot for taking useless risks...
  11. karlooo

    Yeah that's pretty much all you can do lol. Build a base on a hill. Hossin is best for that, where you can turbo up a 90 degree steep hill...have fun getting up there tanks :p

    When the wall changes come, I'll be hiding on top of the hill.
  12. LordKrelas

    Reply button, located on the bottom of posts.
    It automatically sticks the quote function into the post, and lines it up perfectly.

    A single can destroy a empty, automated-base, if the base is built in such a way, and is empty, using Cloaking.
    This single person is able to be detected ahead of time, by the alarm module.
    And due to how they got in: The alarm module will alert you of their actions, which will take a long long time.
    This entire set-up requires a Base to be built where said Infil can walk in, hide inbetween cloaking, and have angles on modules.
    This is negated easily by a spitfire, land mines , by additional builder objects, and by actually guarding the base.

    Lone Builders, using a system designed for Squad-based construction, being undone by very select specific users, taking quite a long period.
    A proper base, one made by a squad, is capable of holding off a platoon if used correctly, with 3 guys.
    This is easily shown off by the VS on Connery, who base build with an Obsession.

    To the point of constructing bases, in locations, and with tactics, designed to kill, block, or take advantage of every possible thing they can -- To using Skyshields to burn people who have to stand on terrain, to sealing off repair modules & hives inside buildings, with the entire door fused into the terrain.

    Construction is able to create murderously effective strongholds, if you know what you are doing, and are actually using it in a Squad.
    I've built bases like this, with my Outfit -- the more people, the more effective the base can become.

    Having no one practiced, at using the construction system, does not negate or remove the incredible power of Construction.
    It's just like why Crappy MBT drivers & gunners, don't mean the MBT platform is a harmless unarmed rock.
    In the hands of a fool, it's pretty much that - but that's operator failure to the extreme.

    A lone-manned MBT is dangerous, but can't hold a candle to a 2-mannned MBT of the same chassis even.
    Construction is very much like this: Solo, it's harder to use to the same effect, and more fragile.
    Using it as a group, as intended, it becomes Powerful, scaling with how well you use it.

    You should not be building PMB's solo, and expecting a solo operator to not attempt to exploit every flaw in your defense.
    These holes, are able to be closed, via creative use, and achieved with allies.
    You can't expect the best results using a squad-based construction system, by yourself...
    If you want a PMB to succeed: Collect your local allied builders, and actually build the bloody thing.
    Not build 6 lone useless PMB's.. build 1 useful PMB with the power of all 6 people.

    It solves your turret issues, it Solves your wall issues...
    And it doesn't amplify the hell out of the automated-firepower of a Squad using the system properly.

    The Respawn system, is related to the speed of ending multiple targets with a single clip, you can say.
    If everyone took 2 minutes to respawn - Spawn points better not take 30 seconds to destroy.
    Unless you want every battle to be, who killed the most in the first exchange, rather than who actually used their people more effectively.

    Allies that don't let you rez them, which can be in the literal line of fire where they die again the instant they revive..
    To re-positioning or being completely out of Ammo, C-4, or similar, meaning it's more tactical to just respawn.
    If you are reviving the right people, in the right place, they don't have time to hit respawn in the under 6 seconds of revive.
    Or if need be, a revieve grenade also works.
    If you need increased respawn times, to revive people as a medic... you aren't doing it right, or they don't care.

    Not to mention, what position are you in, that reviving them would risk your skin, that wouldn't result in them instantly dying?
  13. General Washington



    Yeah, ok, you fit a bunch of stuff in there, but you poorly designed your base, created massive blind spots, huge weak points, and don't have backup...if it didn't work its your own fault. First of all, the AI turret cant shoot anyone at its bases, and both your pill box and inf tower with shields up, offer cover to pick apart your base in relative safety. If your going to build a mini base, better to have only one entrance, a commanding position topographically, and no blind spots. This is clearly a noob base...but don't worry, that's the status quo for most builders. Largely because daybreak offers only minimalistic guidance. I don't know if all you should know about construction could be shared in a four hour tutorial.
  14. General Washington


    Good points there.

    Infils will go away if your good at base building. They are a little pesky at times...just figure out ways to deal with them. A single entrance helps deter a lot. Also, keep the base clutter free or they will breed like rats, and eat holes in your base. There are very few people who even approach being decent builders, but most think they are great at it.

    Another thing, learn where to build, and be strategic. If you are building miles from any enemy, near your own warpgate, on flat land, alone....chances are you are a glorious noob...a tasty treat for campy little infil *****...they will laugh themselves silly while your crying and screaming.
    • Up x 1
  15. karlooo

    Yeah that was just a rushed example, where I just showed how hard it is to defend it on open areas. I don't think it's possible to build a perfect base, show me how the perfect base is supposed to look like lol, cause I have no idea.

    But about the infiltrator attacks. I rly don't want to fight them, you got these invisible infantry which are very hard to spot, running around your base with absolutely no trouble, like as if they own it lol. Like games are supposed to be fun but this is not fun, it's expensive too, I would like devs to change ways to attack these bases, maybe change this completely. The whole idea about making bases is not fun, no objective really, and the idea about making bases act like an FOB won't work nicely, defending it is not fun. That's what I'm basically saying in the topics related about construction. But good construction squads could make base creating fun in my opinion.

    AtckAtck gave some good point about the construction issue:

    • Up x 1
  16. grunt03

    The base construction system is the greatest thing anyone has ever comeup with in a game. It really is amazing to be able to create a defense for your team. as for location well its all stratego. As for size, ill share one of my base building formats, just for something to concider, it gives a little more space and good fields of fire. It has eight sides all at 45 degree angles to each other. it can be done with two people with each person having a gate. This allows in theory 8 or 9 anti personell turrets on the perimeter of your ramparts. with size and personelle these bases are a great addition to this game I think, and for turrets fields of fire a small base does have its limits but I think the spirit of the construction system "is" teamwork, with to much stuff you could circle auraxis with ramparts and put to shame the great wall of China, let alone with multiple people. Close the gaps on your ramparts and mine your gate. But I will say, "it can be done". As for fifty tanks on your solo base this is higby bs.
  17. Demigan

    The entire problem is that the current construction "community" evolves around a handful of players that simultaneously mine and build their base while they rely on automated defenses to protect it.

    This is not what construction is meant for.

    PMB's are supposed to be manned. The "just 2 players destroyed my base" should never be an issue when bases are build somewhere where players actively come to it's aid. This is already something the devs are trying to foster by making area's that are best defended with a PMB, so that in the natural course of a battle the enemy will reach your base and friendlies will come to defend it. It also allows the devs to control the area you build in so that stupid and cancerous crap like an air-shield in a ditch so that it damages anyone who comes near is not an option. The devs are even making a statement by removing HIVE's so that the bases in the middle of nowhere with as much as possible abuse of the PMB mechanics are avoided and forcing players to build PMB's where battles take place rather than trying to avoid it as much as possible.

    If all goes well, we'll see PMB's integrated even further into the normal attack/defense game. This includes the extremely wonderful additions of siege-possibilities on ANT's and possible future siege-equipment for the attackers to even the battle against the defenders.

    Should we lose the current construction community because they liked the status quo it's not a huge loss. It's unfortunate (except for every cancerous whimp who thinks that making a base as impenetreable as possible through the use of wonky mechanics or building outside of the map/inside a rock etc, they can burn in hell), but their enjoyment is secondary to that of the 95% other players in the game who currently wouldn't touch the construction system with a long loooooooong stick.

    Oh and BTW, idea's like "we need an anti-infantry turret so I can get free kills on any infantry that pops up over my wall and it becomes virtually impossible to destroy the modules of a defended base so that vehicles can be part of it", that's the kind of attitude that should be burned in hell as well.
    • Up x 1
  18. AtckAtck

    I have to disagree, strongly. When i follow your line of thought, then i must have an entire squad sitting in my base all the time (or them being on the call to arrive in an instant at least) in order to have a change at building a worthwile base. Wow, thats not enjoyable at all for a base builder. Simply demanded too much and unfun.
    All you will get out of this is that the basebuilder will quit building.

    Having reliable players on the call or be at the mercy of "random" idiots in order to have a change to defend is sure way to cater towards an even more small and very eliteist group of players.

    You praise the new building locations with capture points as THE ultimate great Idea for a base to build. But the truth is, they are hardly used by anybody that knows how to build a base. Why? Because they don't have suicidal tendencies. Your base will be destroyed within a minute on these spots.
    Certainly fun for the tanks driving by, but surely not for the builder.

    Looking at the bases on the live servers now, the biggest problem is that the turrets are not dangerous.
    They have no damage output that feels dangerous and they are pretty weak meaning they have low life pool.
    (I just yesterday attacked a base with a tank, i was in plain view of the AT Tower, i triggered the AI-System, the tower turned towards my tanks and fired, no hit, hit, hit. Tower dead. He shot down my tank by roughly 1/3 health.
    I killed a base build by 4 players, with 4 x 3 Turrets in about 3 Minutes with 1 Tank / 2 Players. This is a joke.
    At the moment bases are giant XP Pinatas... And the next updates will make this worse.


    Another idea that sounds fun, but only if you are an attacker. And very frustrating if you are a defender or builder.


    It will be a huge loss, because these are the players that have everything unlocked.
    Having to rely on players that only have a free wall and lonely turret to build a "base" (don't even want to call it that), will surely be fun for defenders having to defend a point that i thought to be defended with a base, but has none on it....


    There is a difference between those that are willing to exploit by glitching modules with lagswitching or other exploits or those that do their best to build at locations that are hard to attack.

    The 95% that don't touch the constuction system now, will not be touching it after the changes... This will not change. All that will happen is that we have even less builders.
    Sure for players that don't like the constuction this might be great news...
    Daybreak will break this by listening to players with your line of reasoning.

    Building, maintaining and defending a base must be as fun as attacking one. As long as the fun is only on the attacking side this will go downhill very fast.


    I cannot even begin where you are wrong, it is just too much.
    The ai is bad. Tricked easily. Slow to react. Has reduced accuracy. Reduced damage. The modules go down fast. The turrets have lots of blind spots... If you get killed by an automated turrets even once when no defenders are present you deserve to get a darwin award... Thats how bad the turrets really are.

    They totally deserve a nerf... (Not.)
    • Up x 1
  19. adamts01

    This is tricky to balance.

    I see 2 solutions.

    1. Integrate bases in to the lattice in some way. Buff turrets through the roof while the base isn't capturable, but take away that AI bonus once the base is susceptible to attack.
    2. Keep Hives and let bases become mini-alerts. Let turrets again be buffed through the roof till the alert starts, and hopefully by that time your base is occupied.
    In either case, bases need to be a little more accessible to attackers, at least while the fight is going on. I propose doing this by giving bases their power through new buildings with no-deploy areas around them. Maybe 1 building per turret/module? This keeps bases from being the sealed off annoyances they currently are. Capture points could be in these buildings and they could be invulnerable till the base is captured.
  20. grunt03

    I agree with turrets needing a little bit of a dial in, little slow little low and a little short on change the only thing is a format of a base I know doesn't take away anything for this to be just fine, it comes down to teamwork for a really great base, the only suggestion I have is make the map a little bigger so you can put a base on auraxis somewhere other than in my backyard, Earth. Its a little tough to support the grunts right now trippin over every no deploy zone from the gate to the gates if you could put it in the way of an enemy you deserve a Darwin award or something just as prestigious. I think that would allow the base builders a little room to really be able to step up their game cause there are some great bases being built and then it would be on.