[Suggestion] Artillery

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Movoza, Apr 19, 2018.

  1. Movoza

    It has been discussed a lot and here it is again: artillery in PS2.

    Artillery can easily be a bane to PS2. No one wants to cower in a spawn room or have their tank shelled to death from an unseen and unreachable location. That is why I think artillery must be held in check in one way or another.

    I propose an artillery that works more or less as expected, with a few quirks. You buy the thing, you drive it to a location, you deploy it. The vehicle itself only has a a gun similar to the secondaries of MBT to defend itself.

    When the artillery gun has been deployed, you get purchase terminals on the sides. These allow you to purchase a short/medium range artillery paint gun for a small amount of nanites (25 or 50 as a suggestion). Within the zone visible on the radar you can fire the gun and paint a target (which can be the ground). The artillery will automatically aim and fire on that spot.

    This way the artillery is bound to a person that generally can be seen and is in range of people that are being shelled, so the artillery fire can be alliviated by killing this person. Death of the player means a small nanite loss, while destruction of the artillery means a lot more. The power of the artillery can be shared to friendlies, only squad members or only yourself, but do be aware that the artillery has limits in reload and firing. Sharing might reduce your own effectiveness.

    The artillery is basically defenceless when deployed and you're not there to make it stay in the safety of allies. As an added function, the owner can use an artillery paintgun to enter a control mode much like the Phoenix launcher, so you can package and redeploy the artillery at a different location. The defence gun is disabled in this mode (or the gun is active, but the player must be killed when the artillery is destroyed and the player is in this driving mode to prevent some strange form of cheesing for K/D ratio).

    This artillery will present a high risk high reward. The artillery is more likely to be destroyed without proper management, losing a ton of nanites in the process. The person itself can only use the tank to it's full potential when moving as an infantry or having friendlies doing the main body of work, requiring coordination and more interaction with fellow planetmans. As infantry they form a vulnerable target that can lose a bit of nanites when killed.
    It can be an answer to zerks in many bases, where they can be pulled from a former base and deployed without immediately getting ganked, allowing some strong fire and luring weakening zerks to a new battle.
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  2. Halkesh

    Take a closer look at construction system : artillery is already here.
  3. Movoza

    Take a closer look at my suggestion: I'm looking for a serious answer.

    What I'm proposing is quite different. The construction system applies to buildings and those are very stationary. My idea isn't. Tge artillery also fills a very different role than what the construction system offers. A more precise attack focused on anti tank battles vs some AOE attacks with various effects and charging systems.
  4. LordKrelas

    So basically, you deploy this vehicle somewhere, and it indirectly fires AOE shells onto a target laser-pointed by a Spotter in the field.
    With every base designed at best, to defend against direct-fire, with barely any cover or blockage to prevent either the shells, or the spotter from locking onto any position they wish to open fire on, with engaging in combat themselves.

    An armed artillery weapon, mounted with just a MBT secondary, for self-defense.
    Lovely.
    For if anyone was to find the firing position of arc'ing shells during the flight of said shells before they hit, add in range of the weapon, the likelyhood of actually being able to engage this machine is slim if the user is intelligent at all, given You quite literally allow the Owner to remotely move their vehicle around from a distance.
    Which puts the ease of kitting around with Indirect-fire from a 2-man Job, to a sololist packing an entire long-range howitzer..

    Which with a Stalker Infiltrator, basically means a goose chase, to find a mobile artillery-platform remotely controlled, and remotely fired..
    Or find the cloaked user, able to easily avoid both threats to their weapon & themselves by the nature of it:

    What risk is there exactly?
    You fire this weapon from behind several layers of cover, terrain, or similar, whatever blocks direct sight
    If anyone was able to pin-point the direction of fire , from the blast zone or in visible range of the shells, they have to cross the entire distance, to get direct-line-of-sight on the weapon -- which prevents return-fire.
    In the time it takes to get that Direct-LOS, if they find the direction let alone actual location, you easily move the weapon.
    Moving after each barrage (let alone with remote-control), makes this even easier to use as the ultimate shield against any non-flying threats.

    If they hunt the Spotter:
    Stalker Infiltrator, using the artillery from an entirely different direction than themselves, from the furthest range the spot system allows.
    And if it's squad-based -- now you can have multiple spotters, guards, replacements, able to unload free AOE blasts with a mobile artillery platform easily, making the vulnerability of the spotter's death, countered by the number of them per artillery unit.

    Let alone if a squad packs 12 artillery units at once, scattered across the entire hex or three, using the range to ensure AOE spam easily, that can't be hunted down by anything but an aircraft dedicated to finding needles in a haystack.

    Now imagine, the genius of a zerg, which has dozens of artillery units....
    And more likely than not, ample units to spare to hunt down artillery units.
    With less targets to fire on, allowing focus-fire from long-range, with indirect-fire artillery
    Unless by miracle, they are too stupid to spam either AOE shells or anti-armor shells from behind walls, mountains, trees, or even hills, at the smaller force, just as much as the smaller force attempts to do the same..

    Not to mention, easily allow a squad of Stalkers, the firepower to kill armor, and any infantry, with remote-controlled artillery, that only a flyer could reach before relocation even, to shell anything, without even having to fire their own weapons.
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  5. Eternaloptimist

    The issue with any idea (and I have nothing against this one) is that you need to consider the potential for abuse/exploitation - see C4 use as an anti-infantry 'nade and Striker/C4 dropping Valks.

    Is there scope for mass deployment of artillery by a zerg force? Could it be used to blanket spawn rooms? IDK - just offering a couple of things for consideration or possible refinement of the proposal. I saw a post some time ago about use of mortars which seemed a bit more practical as they have shorter range etc.
  6. Coliax

    I think you could balance a new vehicle that is a mobile artillery:

    - A small ammo pool and (because it would work without) ammo sundies doesent work on the artillery or the sundie restock the artillery very slow
    - Make it visible on the map like it's spottet all the time
    - Same HP than sunderer (or maybe even less) so that it's down with 2 C4 and a rocket
    - HESH or AP ammo, not both (this must not be a jack of all trades)
    - Tech plant needed just like MBT and Libs
    - You Need more than one Player to use the Artillery (one possible solution: one gunner, one who mark something to shoot and idk someone who reload?)(How can gunner and dart live together? well first of all you should not have a dart, but a laser that needs to be "canalized". The artillery will then focuse an the target area. The Task of the gunner is to do the final calibration and to shoot)
    - the top turret should be only a defense against infratry (like only cobalt and furry)
    - must be deployed in order to fire (and undeploy is slow) (maybe also deactivate the turret while deployed)

    Why this? Because artillery in the real world is nothing that sould be left alone. You Need troops that shoot, some that resupply and some that protect the artillery. Therefore the balance here is that you make the artillery very vulnerable so that it need's a small group to defend it.
    Artillery should be able to do devastating dmg, when protected and used correctly



    (should look like this) (should also be a NS tank for better balance)
    [IMG]
    There is even a little mg on top of that tank!
  7. Greyfairer

    We old timers recall just such a piece of equipment introduced in the original PS; the Flail.

    Could only fire when deployed, had no secondary armament at all, needed a spotter (who used a hand held laser-thingie) to fire accurately at distance, did not have a huge ammo reserve, blast radius was larger than HE from tanks, but it only had one ammo type.

    Overall I thought it was a fun addition to the vehicle pool. True, it could be massed and used as a direct fire weapon to control choke points, but really nothing different than is done now with MBTs and the like.

    So it would not be a hard piece to introduce to PS2 as the mechanics have been worked out. Now the graphics need updated as the original skin was fugly.

    Would it be fun to have artillery in PS2; yes. I also think a short range mortar for engineers would be nice and that Libs need iron bombs again and not some belly gun.

    ....wishes.
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  8. frozen north

    While I do see the potential fun/ opportunities that could be added with artillery, as many have stated, I see a lot of balance issues. On places like esamir, with all that open territory and open top base design, artillery would reign supreme.

    It basically comes down to this. The new base artillery currently on the test server follows this basic concept ( raining high damage death from above with a targeting module), but this mobile artillery is arguably both a safer option, and unlike the base artillery, you can spam large instances of this thing onto the field. In short, it makes dedicated base artillery kinda irrelevant, and you can just stuff these things into a base to get essentially base artillery on steroids.

    If ( big if here), the average rate of base capping even when their highly contested were to spike in a big way, then I would definitely see this things place, since a high powered defence/ attack smashing tool would make a lot of sense to have. However, a lot of times, this game can feel like trench warfare, where artillery has historically reigned supreme.
  9. hansgrosse

    I like the concept of self-propelled artillery in this game, but I don't think it would play out well as you've laid it out here. If arty is going to avoid being either crazy OP or completely useless it needs to be powerful while *requiring* teamwork and skill to use effectively.


    A great example of artillery done right, IMO, is Battlefield 1942's system; self-propelled guns in that game were 2-person vehicles (driver/gunner), and they relied on other players serving as forward observers to accurately fire on distant targets.

    In this spotting system a player had to use binoculars to designate a target for artillery, at which point artillery gunners would get an audio cue that a target was available. Right clicking would allow the gunner to enter a sort of remote camera view of the target at the position of the spotting player, and when a shot was fired the camera would swivel to track that player's shell in flight, allowing the gunner to see how he needed to adjust the gun for the next shot. Hash marks and gun position markers on the sides of the remote camera view would let the gunner fine-tune his aim and stay on target once accurate fire was achieved.

    With this we have a system that requires both teamwork and skill to use effectively, and therefore can allow artillery to be powerful without being overpowering. With some tweaks implemented to account for the massive nature of this game (and therefore a potentially huge number of player-designated targets) I believe such a system could be adopted very successfully and add to the game in a positive way.
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  10. Demigan

    I think artillery like this is a great idea. There's tons of ways you can balance it out. As mentioned in the OP the range of the target painter can be short so the user needs to be close to his target before he can use his artillery. The visibility of both the projectile and the target painter when in use can be increased. You can force the target painter to mark the same target (or piece of land) for a few seconds before it fires. These are already enough to make the artillery nigh on useless, so you only have to pick a few and apply them sparingly.

    The amount of damage each shot also doesn't have to mean they'll be OHK'ing players soon. You could give artillery a small magazine and let them fire volleys, and the longer the target-painter fires on one location the more accurate it becomes... But also the more likely it is the target-painter is killed. Add to that ammo that won't OHK but requires multiple hits, and it's easily balanced.
  11. AuraBliss

    I would have loved it if they put this into to the game. It would work a lot like the base version expect it can bombard bases unlike the construction version

    Some added things though..
    =very low hp pool but with major resistance when deployed. So like instead of any form of extra armor it will have no other certifications in that slot expect max deployment shield. When not deployed its very weak and can die by infantry and be obliterated by armor or light vehicles.
    = Does not move really fast at the speed of a sunder but can be upgraded with driving certs.
    = Only uses Hesh rounds that fire in a 5 burst much like the stationary artillery. These shells will rain down in a random circle and will have a artillery icon appear on the map when doing so much like the construction version.
    = reload time between each burst is 5 minutes but can be certed to go as low as 3.5 mins.
    = Can not obtain ammo from any sources other than a base ammo depo.. Even the construction base ammo depo doesn't count.
    = Can only be obtain when a tech planet and a amp station are both in control
    = Can only be spawned from warpgate and cost of the vehicle will be 700 nanites
    = There will be 2 other gunner seats one in front and one in rear.. It will have access to the same turrets as the MBT.
    = Deployment time for the gun is 3mins and another 2 mins for the shield to fully deploy.
    = the attack range for the gun is only within 300m which is mostly a lettice section.
    = can not deploy near a base much like with how the construction system works.
    = Each Hesh round does the same damage as the MBT version So thats the damage x5 with a random pattern in an zone circle.
    = Driver can only fire with the map open "such as select a location within the deployed circle" if that can not work something else will have to be thought up.
    = When deployed it will show up on the map with the faction color circle of range.
    = Size of the vehicle will be nearly close to a liberator which means is slightly larger than a MBT. So it has more hit boxes.
    = When deployed the back part of the vehicle will have a terminal where you can reload and change classes however You can not spawn from this vehicle unless in a squad and it will have 3 extra seats in the back part that are open much like with the harasser and Valkyrie and it can be repaired when in these seats at a slower rate compared to repairing out of these seats.

    There.
  12. ColonelChingles

    Pretty much, you can't have modern warfare without artillery.

    Take away artillery (and other heavy weapons) and what do you get? Static trenchfights where forces just slam into each other until one side is exhausted and gives up. Or in cases where the sides are imbalanced, you get a siege where the attackers just sit there and wait out the defenders.

    Artillery would change all this.

    In the initial attack, the presence of attacking artillery means that it would be silly for the defenders to dig in and "wait it out". That's just asking to be smashed into itty bitty pieces. It's why no one really bothers to build castles anymore; such flimsy fortifications would be knocked out in the first minutes of battle.

    So instead of defending in a static manner, defenders are much better served with an mobile defence: setting up forward pockets of resistance to intercept incoming enemy transports and "deep" raids into the attacker's rear to disrupt their fire support and logistics. Such a defence, being more mobile as well as spread out makes it difficult for artillery to target, particularly when that artillery is being hunted down and destroyed by small raiding parties.

    Now say that the attackers still manage to penetrate into the base. In that case, it is now the defender's turn to bring in their own artillery support with the attackers stuck in a static position. This means that the defenders have the ability to significantly hamper the enemy attack; combined with precision strikes against enemy logistics, such an attack might be blunted completely.

    What essentially happens is that the presence of artillery expands the battle; no longer is a fight determined by a meatgrinder from building to building inside a base. Instead the entirety of combined arms is at play, as mobile infantry, armour, and air need to secure the outside of the base from artillery.
  13. Demigan


    Yeah! As evidenced by WWI where artillery became extremely developed and most artillery doctrine for today was created.

    Wait, wasn't WWI the slowest trench-war to ever exist with a few meters of progress taking literal years? Hmm maybe your conclusion is wrong...



    Aside from that, artillery would be great. Has anyone ever tried to place a Sunderer somewhere safe? There's stealth Flashes, Harassers, ESF, Liberators and recently many more Valkyries that move everywhere and will easily find and destroy any unoccupied vehicle. Artillery would in fact need defenses against such attacks if it has any function in the game. It's hard enough to defend a place against air attacks if you bunch up your troops, if you spread them out by having artillery off the beaten path it's going to be nigh impossible.
  14. AuraBliss

    I would love this in the already we could use more vehicle deiversity.