[Suggestion] time to increase max c4 resistance?

why did you even pull a max then if you are not the first one through the door...

It fixes one thing and immediately creates another: Extremely durable MAX's that are far too difficult to kill. Simply dumping resistances on top of things is not a good solution.

Which is why I always suggest to also add rival utilities to C4, such as resource-costing AV grenade launchers, LAW's, deployable Mortars or Artillery that can be fired through laser-designators, deployable shields, distortion generators, anti-vehicle EMP (does not completely shut them down just slows them) and more.

And what do I continuously try to promote? Useful alternative options maybe?

Did you see the speed with which they've done things like construction and NSX? Even if it takes months, it's worth the wait. Especially considering that the alternative is buffing the MAX up the whazoo with auto-granted Ordnance.

"Because you would design not just the role the weapon does, but also how it does it. IE CQC, mid-range, long-range, magazine size, alpha damage, DPS over extended periods of time, accuracy, versatility against targets other than it's intended role, teamwork potential etc.

Because the win isn't guaranteed, and the resource cost of the "super guns" could easily go above that of the MAX, and the MAX can be used without extra costs while the "super guns" would cost per shot etc.
This is a classic "I'll just imagine a scenario where it's blatantly OP and ignore the fact that there's balanced choices that could be made".

An Engi is required to piggieback because the MAX actually has the hitpoints. A single MAX has 10 times the hitpoints of a standard infantry vs small-arms, up to 20 times with kinetic armor.

The end fact remains simple: Creating the alternatives is a far far better option than buffing the MAX C4 resistance and well worth the wait when considering the carnage a skillsuit can already dish out and there's absolutely no reason to make them more survivable this way if we have those alternatives.

Hell, it's almost as easy to just change the stats of the current C4 brick, then add another C4 brick which you'll call "AI brick" and give it a set of stats, and presto you are done! Then as time progresses you can always create new aestetics if it is required.

But it doesn't... all MAXes currently already take 2 C4 to kill because everyone has to run Ordinance armor. buffing base resist just means that some MAXes will have less health after just 1 C4 than currently.

So, the general way this argument is being presented is that, with increased resistance as base, the MAX would survive one C-4 but most likely not endure one C-4 plus typical engagement?

Tbh, MAX is best at defense... So play by the strengh: control the engagement area, affort to take bullets/trade shots, have the Engiee in cover.
Attacking is better done by HA and LA as spear tip after a lot of nade spam. MAX move in afterwards to secure to area.

Maxes are so expensive for how easily killed they are.....they become the target of every soldier on the battlefield.... i use maxes all the time and i think they are glass cannons.... in the PS1 they took small arms fire much better.
MBT or a MAX? same price... fkn ell.

And please stop them dying when they get hit by a buggy... its just STUPID!!

in another thread i suggested lowering the damage of c4 against infantry but increasing the blastradious to compensate ...
also speaking of AV i am still for giving both MC´s and infils getting AV grenades and additionaly for the medic a grenadelauncher similar to the rockletrifle

The only time this is true, is if you equip ordnance armor. If you equip Vanilla, kinetic or auto-repair you have a stronger MAX. And if the enemy gets time for 2 C4 then you would be dead anyway, if he doesnt than you'll be better off with the other suit slots most of the time. Ergo ipsum infinitum majorus fallus, MAX's would be stronger.

well yeah thats the point. that something other than ordinance armor actually exists.

And in doing so, what happens? Does that MAX get better? And by getting better and now a hell of a lot harder to destroy when combined with Kinetic or self-repair (MAX's tend to die from extended engagements so self repair improves survivability). So the end result: MAX's that are far too tough and now are even easier farm machines. Thats not a good gameplay element. Its better to keep C4 as it is against them than buff the MAX's

You want to perform a qualitative analysis of MAX sessions across a vast number of players and plot a generalization of "skill progression over time"? Even if we still had the Oracle of Death to do quantitative analysis, I think that's far too daunting of a task.

There has to be more to the argument than just "this will teach you to get better." A position for things being artificially harder than people are comfortable because it should entice people getting better will only end with the winning point being that everything dies with any sort of chip damage. There's a market for that sort of grueling gameplay, but this franchise has never really been it. Gameplay has spent too much time pounding on those unhammered nails to have an abrupt change of heart.

I do not use MAXes and i spend a lot of time fighting against them.
I really thing that currently the MAX is hilariously week against C4.

we already know how powerful MAXes are when they all need 2 C4 to die and we know that it's not overpowered. Rocketlaunchers would still deal 40%+ damage per shot, UBGL nades would still need 3 to kill a max and you can still magdump headshots into one if you throw a flashbang or a conc nade at it. All other ways to kill a MAX feel fine, but all other ways are also obsolete because C4 already is the most effective way to kill a MAX even if it costs 2. if Base resist is buffed and flakarmor no longer is the go to option than the most effective way to dispose of a MAX will be to use 1 of your C4 sticks and then finish it's remaining 25%~ or so health off with a rocket or small arms. not only would this make gameplay more interesting for the MAX as you do not die instantly but also more interesting for the Opponent as disabling the MAX for a short time to be able to finish it off becomes far more important and efficent than simply killing it instantly.

Keep in mind, ordinance armour is treated as mandatory right now, for the sole reason of it is the only counter to many of the weapons that kill MAX suits extremely quickly, and especially to C4, which is the biggest of the issues. In fact, for a lot of MAX players, they would be willing to try other builds, except that ordinance armours C4 resist is far to valuable to lose.

Plus, how is a vanilla MAX a stronger MAX? Is there some hidden stat buff I have never heard of or something? You know, besides saving me 250 certs to get ordinance armour leveled such that the C4 resist is present.

First up, its not auto granted ordinance armour. Its just the singular component of it that is considered by most to make it a mandatory pick, which is its C4 resist.

Contrary to what you think, that was not what I was trying to do. What I meant was, as it stands, in order for it to be relevant, then it would need to be an equally potent monster, with lots of power, and a fairly low use cost.

And I know that your going to come back with " But it won't have to be strong if we break up C4 and balance additions around that", which, despite what one may think, I do actually get. Ok? I realize that additions will help, and help a whole heck of a lot. I also am acutely aware that a major reason for C4 spiking in popularity to what it is now is because medical and restoration kits are generally seen as less critical now a days. So I do definitely understand this. I do fully realize that strong alternatives would be ideal.

Unfortunately, I don't see those alternatives on the immediate horizon, so to me, waiting is the equivalent of ignoring a forest fire that's about to engulf your town because you think it may rain next month. Plus, I feel damage focused alternatives do run the risk of keeping the basic issue of MAX suits having numerous effective counters, with one exceptionally strong one ( C4), that currently plagues MAX suits. And as a quick side, even if C4 is broken up, anti armour C4 would still be the exact same monster to MAX suits ( after about the six meter mark, current C4 starts to become a much more minor threat, and anti armour C4 would need to keep the inner blast radius as the same or possibly slight larger to ensure it would be reliable enough against armour to warrant use).

So because of this, I still fully support changing it so that MAX's don't have a natural -65% C4 resistance, and removing C4 resist from ordinance armour. Maybe your willing to wait around, but I am not. I have always liked MAX suits ( that feeling of being able to get stuff done), but I do not like feeling like I have to always pick ordinance armour to be able to survive long enough to be relevant, let alone have my MAX be worth its cost. If more options later down the line alleviate this issue, then they can revert this ( though I suspect even then, it may very well still be needed).

So yeah. I stand by MAX suits needing this change.

Exactly. As someone who has spent a lot of time in MAX suits, and knows that ordinance armour is practically mandatory because of C4, I can say this is definitely true.

No, I wanted them to think for themselves.

"Is MAX pre-buff with stats X, better or worse than MAX post-buff with stats Y?". Considering that yes, it does have better stats, the MAX is better. No quantative analysis needed for that, don't try to make things hard when it's not necessary.

Yes and I already mentioned it, "This will make MAX's too much of a farmtool". And "The skill/action requirement isn't good for the game".

No, that position is nothing like that. You are trying to make an argument of "if you want to have some tax money to support poor families you'll eventually go full-blown Communism". Just because you ask for something a bit lighter or darker doesn't mean you want to go full white or black. There's plenty of shades of grey that will perfectly work.

"I don't play this but I think it's weak" isn't exactly a winning argument.
The "oh noes you can die to X hits" argument is also completely bull. Infantry can die to a single hit to X weapons! Oh noes! Infantry can die within 4 to 10 hits by weapons that fire 15 to 100 times faster than the aforementioned anti-MAX weapons and with less punishment for misses! Oh noes! But the question isn't about how many clicks or shots it takes to kill something, the question is how balanced it is. The MAX forces someone to pick a weapon that has a higher punishment for misses, a lower ROF and more time for the MAX to bring his weapons to bear and tear you apart. There's a reason MAX's are farmtools, rather than the poor and slow kids that get beaten on by the others.

If MAX's get the ability to survive 2 C4 and carry Kinetic/self-repair, it would be a massive boost to MAX survivability, and make it much much harder to kill a farming MAX on a point for example. That is not a good game design, that's asking for things like biolabs to become even more of a farmfest than they already are and at the expense of everyone not a MAX.

i literally answered all these points already in the post you quoted...
you could still kill a kinetic MAX with a Deci and a AV nade
You could still kill a NAR MAX by stunning it and dumping an entire mag of your primary into it's head
All of these things are incredibly easy to do against a lone MAX that wants to farm.
but noone even uses these things because C4 exists. and a buff to base resist wouldn't even change that,C4 would still allow you to deal 50-75% damage to a MAX without even exposing yourself to it.
And only the NC MAX is a farmtool in the current gamestate and it still needs to be nerfed or the other MAXes brought up to par, but for MAXes in general giving the ability to customize your loadout instead of there just being a single thing you need to upgrade to survive is silly and needs to go.

Hold that thought. Or, rather, rewind a bit.

No, that's your argument. You are the one who is arguing that moving the line any amount in a certain direction is moving too much down a perverse direction. Any amount of survival is bad.

That's not a gradient; it's a hard shutdown. You're the one who is afraid of a slippery slope towards communism bogeyman. I guess if you're feeling generous, you'd dangle some other lustrous baubles in front of our eyes trying to distract. Some new utility. Some new tool. "Anything but that." My argument is to throw the MAX a small bone, even if only to learn how we'd choke on it. We don't even know if we'd choke on it.

it's not. all Game Balance is a gradient.

I recognize that you are not Demigan, so the argument would otherwise be tailored slightly differently, though it would make the same proposals. Regardless:

So the MAX can be allowed to survive one C-4 from full health without extra defensive options as long as that amount of survival is within a realistic degree of follow-up attack by the assailant?