[Suggestion] time to increase max c4 resistance?

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Liewec123, Apr 8, 2018.

  1. Liewec123

    The Issue.
    C4 has always been a hot topic, people didn't like how potent it was against vehicles,
    months ago c4 became even more lethal when the time to trigger after hurling it became much shorter,
    but then the CAI patch happened and the vehicle drivers got some comfort,
    most vehicles saw their AV resistance increase,
    even the 150 nanite buggies (harasser) now take 2 bricks of c4 to destroy!

    and this week we've seen the release of the A.S.P and now you can spawn MBTs Libs and Galaxies for 360 nanites.

    and through all of this max has remained unchanged,
    the slowest unit in the game, now the most expensive by a whopping 90 nanites, dead to a single brick of c4.

    i believe the time has come to remove the c4 resistance from Ordnance Armour and make it baseline.

    Why change this?
    over the years we've seen soooo many new weapons added that obliterate maxes,
    Archers, Rocklet rifles, AV mines(buffed to trigger on maxes),
    even a secondary option, the Explosive Crossbow allows any class to kill a max in 6 shots.
    the old stalwart methods still work too, a single AV nade and a decimator shot to the face, instant max kill.
    and i am totally fine with all of this, c4 however...takes the cake!

    a OHK "grenade" that can be thrown across the room, it has always been stupidly OP against maxes,
    but now that all of the other vehicles can be acquired for 360 nanites,
    and with all of the new max countering weapons,
    there is even less reason to waste 450 nanites on a walking sarcophagus that is dead within 30 seconds without Ordnance armour, which brings me to the next point...

    Ordnance Armour or death, where is the choice?
    we have a suit slot and three attractive "options" for what goes in it:
    Kinetic Armour so you can soak up more bullets,
    Auto Repair so you don't need to be attatched to an engineer.
    and lastly Ordnance Armour which helps you take more rockets, tank shells, grenades...and c4!
    currently though there is entirely no choice,
    the c4 resistance of Ordnance Armour makes it utterly mandatory.
    if the c4 resistance was removed and made baseline Ordnance Armour would still be a very attractive option,
    but it would become that, an OPTION!
    we'd finally be able to take KA or NAR without being instantly obliterated by c4!

    TLDR:
    now that ASP allows for 360 nanite MBTs, Libs and Gals,
    and CAI has made even buggies(harassers) require 2 bricks of c4 to destroy
    i believe it is time to give max some love,
    remove the c4 resistance from Ordnance Armour and make it baseline.
    • Up x 9
  2. Campagne

    Personally I say "no" to baseline (AKA passive and free) ordinance armour. At least not without some kind of cost to MAXes to avoid a direct buff to an already very powerful class.

    Without C4 or a Decimator--AV grenade combo MAXes can be very hard to kill and of course can be infinitely revived and repaired for free. C4 is overpowered against them, sure. But they're not in need of a passive buff in my opinion, far from it.
    • Up x 2
  3. Halkesh

    I agree with the idea to make c4 unable to instant kill a full health MAX.
    That said, I'm not for removing c4 resistance from ordnance armor, I think it would be better if stock MAX took around 1250-1500 damage from c4, and ordnance MAX only 1000. This way c4 is still more effective than a decimator against MAX.

    Do you think the same thing should be done to tank mines ?
    • Up x 1
  4. frozen north

    This is kinda needed ( or at least something similar).

    Long ago, I considered myself a MAX main. Those were very different times though. For one thing, as mentioned, there were fewer threats to be worried about ( and C4 was less common). Not only this, but differences in the resources system made it such that the loss of a MAX suit did not feel like it had as big an impact back then.

    Strangely, as I go back through old patch notes, immediately following the resource consolidation update, MAX suits only cost 350 resources. I think they should be given at least some baseline C4 resistance ( and possibly changes to lockdown and overdrive a bit as well), or they should have their costs reverted back down to 350.
    • Up x 2
  5. BanthaFodder

    I disagree, last thing this game needs is more broken force multipliers and most Maxes I've come across already run the sweeper hud implant. The only major threat are C4 fairies and even then they basically have to go on suicide jumps to take one out.
    • Up x 2
  6. adamts01

    C4 spam is awful, especially now with ambushers. Infantry and maxes should get a 50% resistance to it to end this madness. Let it soften up a room before entry, not be the magic solution to everything. It needs to keep its range and damage to vehicles though.
    • Up x 3
  7. strikearrow

    It is pretty stupid that a c4 with ambusher LA can drop c4 on a defender point push and wipe it out, when not even a Zephyr Lib can do that.....I've seen people get 8-10 kills with one c4 brick...it's just plain stupid for the resource and risk cost.

    Maxes should simple be able to ignore most of that damage and push into a point or hold a point despite heavy ordinance thrown at them. I actually think Maxes should have 3x the HP of a harasser. Either that or the 450 nanite cost needs to be drastically reduced.
    • Up x 3
  8. Liewec123

    But it isnt "free ordnance armour" , it's just the c4 resistance.
    Ordnance armour will still be the best option against explosions, rockets, grenades and tanks.

    C4 being able to take out a full health max simply by being thrown across the room and landing 5m away NEEDS TO GO.

    I'm not suggesting "free ordnance armour", the big issue is c4 being way too effective.
    • Up x 2
  9. Diilicious

    or... just make C4 a deployable with E, like turrets.
    • Up x 3
  10. adamts01

    That would kill it against vehicles, where it's currently fairly balanced.
  11. Diilicious

    with the current limp state of vehicles vs infantry, and those grasshopper jump jets whatever they are called, and C4, I dont think so...
  12. Demigan

    The only buffs I would accept for MAX's are buffs that allow a MAX to avoid the C4, but no passive buffs that require the user no skill or thought to perform.

    And no, giving MAX's charge back is not an option. Charge was way to good as an instant-escape button and it was justly removed (but should have been given to the LA, it's got Ambushers now so there's not even a big problem giving them the option of Charge as well).
    Giving MAX's a moment of extra running speed aking to infantry sprinting? Sure! Giving MAX's an ability that temporarily reduces damage against explosives or any kind of damage source? Absolutely! But every ability needs to be balanced and not give far too much speed (like Charge) or resiliance (like auto-granted Ordnance Armor).
  13. Pelojian

    the problem with giving them activatable DR is it affects everything(or all explosive weapons), it's a worse solution then a mini charge effect, because they can facetank more damage in all scenarios with it up verses old charge where they merely escaped any damage source and you could pursue them.

    a better solution would be a powered sprint that isn't as fast or long ranged as charge, but enough to escape a C4 brick blast radius centered on their sprinting start point. at least then low skill C4 attempts can be avoided, while they are still fully vulnerable to sneaky C4 users.
  14. LtBomber1

    Short version: No!
    Long version: Flak armor!
    • Up x 1
  15. adamts01

    The NC Max really has it made. It's shield does a great job of absorbing blasts. A bandaid would be the long-suggested resistance buff while locked down, and possibly re-work zoe to buff dps and resistance for a short time. But I still think C4 spam in infantry fights is lame, even with max flak armor on every class I use in big fights. Combined with ambushers it's one of the cheesiest things this game has to offer.

    I completely agree with OP in granting Maxes a default C4 resistance, and I'll add in all infantry as well. Ordanance and flak would still be very useful for point holding due to grenade spam, but it would let kinetic have a chance as an option, that I'd still rarely use on my Max. Between Archer/Shotgun engineers, grenade and rocket spam, Maxes will still have their counters.
    • Up x 1
  16. Demigan

    And an auto-granted Ordnance armor doesn't? At least with it being an activateable ability, you can reduce the amount of time MAX's will have the increased resistance, force the player to activate it himself and it doesn't even need to be a whole lot of resistance. You could give it just enough resistance to withstand a single C4, add a health regen that only activates when hit by an explosive weapon and bases the amount of health regen on what weapon you were hit with and a short cooldown. Now it's a weapon that encourages you to take the risk of getting hit by explosives, but it remains a risk that might cause your own death.

    As we see with the Margrider, ESF, Wraith Flash and especially the Harasser: The ability to avoid damage is far far superior than the ability to soak up more damage. And the ESF/Harasser/Charge MAX also proved time and again that the ability to exit any fight whenever you want is a tremendously OP ability as you can reset the fight and survive almost every time as long as the ability has regenerated by the time you return.

    That's why a mini-charge would only be good if it was an actual mini-charge: Good for getting out of the way or trying to dodge something, but no automatic escape button like the old Charge or current ESF Afterburner.

    I just said that didn't I?
    I think we agree more than we disagree.
  17. Liewec123

    but why? we've had soooo many anti max tools added,
    why do we need the ridiculous insta-death grenade to remain the same?
    especially now that my max costs 90 nanites more than my lib, gal or MBT.

    any max who does not wish for instant death is already running ordnance armour for the c4 resistance anyway,
    so i don't really see this as giving the max c4 resistance,
    i see it as giving the max OPTIONS to use something else.

    if they went ahead and made that c4 resistance from ordnance armour baseline
    it would simply mean that we actually have a choice on what to do with the suit slot,
    rather than it being absolutely mandatory to run ordnance armour.
  18. Campagne

    Ah, I see, my mistake.

    My opinion still stands however. Ordinance armour would still be much more valuable than Kinetic anyway with the passive resistance.

    I do agree with Adamts though. I'd be fine with MAXes surviving C4 by default if all infantry also survived it passively, making it a primarily AV weapon instead.
    • Up x 2
  19. LtBomber

    Again, i dont get it!
    Take flak armor and survive C4 without trouble! Ofc you have to get a pocket engiee, since you dont autorep and take more damage from small arms...
  20. Prudentia

    As we see with ZOE and heavy assault overshield the ability to soak up more damage is far far superior than the ability to avoid damage.
    • Up x 1