Old player returning. Noticed something rather confusing....

Hello all, I'm returning after a 2+ year break... not quite sure....

However I've noticed that the most deadly class (in my opinion) has gotten a new jet pack... a gap closer if you will.... And as I find the most fun in vehicular combat, I am left asking a question.... Why does the light assault still have C4? I know I'm rusty, and do get tunnel vision from time to time... but this seem ludicrous to me? has something major changed with vehicle Vs. Infantry that warrants this gap closing?

They want Infatryside, therefore, vehicles got nerfed.

so they did nerf vehicles.... how so?

vehicle nerfs have been happing over time, look up the lethality changes phase 1 (and the non-existant phase 2 that was promised) the reverting of gun velocity normalization and making non AP tank guns have harder drop all so the whiny infantry with their C4 cheese rambo system don't have to pull vehicles or use infantry tactics with other infantry to destory vehicles.

let's not forget the incoming lib buff against flak increasing the time to kill by 50% while they still have free afterburners stock. AA has been a bad joke for a while now and they persist in making it worse to appease a small minority of special snowflake air users.

the only vehicles that get decent treatment are air vehicles which only a minority play, who proceed to **** on the rest of the vehicle ecosystem and the infantrysiders.

They still have C4 because all classes minus the Infiltrator have C4, and no one who has it wants to lose it.

But as for "Infantryside," remember there are two sides to every coin, and that C4 is the number one most effective way for infantry to secure a vehicle kill despite all of its limitations.

HE tanks have been buffed massively as well, don't let everyone else conveniently forget it.

HE only got buffed in Vehicle to Vehicle.
They even got nerfed again if you happen to be vanu.

Buffed it against vehicles so everyone can use HE without automatically losing to AP tanks. So why bother to not run HE?

Magrider was once again over-performing thanks to cheap OHKs with HE while just floating over hills to shoot past walls.

then the max splash damage range should have been nerfed to require more accuracy

The biggest thing I dislike about LA's now is that they can have BOTH C4 and Rocklet Rifles. They have far too much sustain in the field. Before it was simple, you see an LA who has used C4 and you know they don't pose that much of a threat. Now they have Striker 2.0 (other then lack of auto-lock and one less missile, Rocklet is an upgrade). Basically I think LA's in vehicles fights should only work as a sort of flanking alpha damage dealer with no sustained AV capability.

Removing either of those is no longer an option, but I feel like C4 should in general be made more expensive and the full auto burst mode be removed from Rocklets and given to Striker instead. Or at the very least, by default should be more like grenade launchers with rockets being an ammo option that trades damage for range.
Alternatively, move the Rocklet to the primary weapon slot.

Many of the weapons were reduced in firepower, it got to the point that the Halberd could not OHK and even the AP Python could be survived with full flak armour and the extra shields.

They walked it back a little but it's still pretty annoying as a main tanker.

And yes the buffs to LA gap closing constitutes a Nerf to vehicle survivability.

Thermals became "threat detection" optics no longer see infantry, even on weapons like the Kobalt which literally can only hurt infantry.

A single LA can easily (if skilled) take out 2 tanks by use of 1 C4 and a rocklet barrage. And even if you don't you can just respwan and try again. Most of the time when you die you haven't dropped C4 yet so it costs no nanites. It's a matter of time until a good LA manages to sneak up on a Tanker.

There are two defences to this as I see it, full stealth to make yourself not a visible target for LAs to home in on, and the scout radar to see infantry moving around you.

But without a coaxial in the vein of Kobalt, Needler/Saron/Mustang or Gorgan even knowing there's infantry nearby might not be enough to save you from an ambush.

You mean to tell me, that when vets & vehicle mains said that this:

was bad a idea, we was actually right? But I thought we was all just salty HE farmers? Remember when people were praising CAI before & just when it came out and telling us salty vets to **** and accept change? Man those people sure look silly huh.

But nah, we were all just salty vehicle mains who was mad we couldn't farm anymore, right? Right!

Because an AP tank with an equally skilled player would kill you, especially at range. I think tank cannons are very well balanced. They each shine in their own way but can all still take part in vehicle vs vehicle combat, the same as infantry guns and A2A nose guns.

well... after playing around for a few hours.... it seems the game has devolved from a tactic game to a gank fest.... I'll just put this one down.... shame... had good potential to actually be something....

Thanks for the info gents. perhaps I'll be back in another 2 years....

Actually I believe that was a developer/PTS/Patch notes quote, not a specific player's quote. But yes, it was a bad idea.

If I brought a 12x bolt-action into a point room I would most likely lose because I brought the wrong tool for the job. Doesn't mean all long range bolt-actions need buffs for CQC so that "no [players] should immediately feel at a severe disadvantage in [an infantry] battle because they chose a different primary weapon."

People praise and criticize everything, before or after, doesn't matter. Personally I didn't like it then and I still don't. Not just tank stuff either, all of it. I'd revert almost everything from the CAI.

Right!

Assuming both tanks just sit there and take shells on the nose without doing anything about it. Especially at range indeed!

I disagree. Better than pre-CAI where AP was the absolute best, but far from perfect. HE tanks are more common than ever because a difference of one shell usually isn't the determining factor and on top of it becomes much worse once all the enemy vehicles are gone. Really all that happened was the hands were shuffled a bit.

See my above example. Snipers are bad in CQC and ought to be, just as HE should be worse against vehicles, not just a tincy bit less effective, in my opinion.

The other solution could be to make AP and HEAT just a tincy bit less effective than HESH against infantry.
For example, buffing AP splash damage to 800@0,5m - 50@3m (or 1050@0,5m - 50@3m)

a better idea would be to roll back the nerfs on gun normalization etc and restore AP to the king of armored warfare with HE king of AI work.

the changes they made gave infantry more incoming splash damage since almost everyone runs HE now while making the tanks more vulnerable to counter attack from infantry and diluting the weaknesses of using HE against armor.

i much prefered the old gun setup, if you chose one gun you made tradeoffs against other targets and if you sat on a hill shelling at range if the infantry made no concentrated effort to close the distance and engage, it was their fault for not even attempting to counter with infantry or vehicles.

I don't think tanks need to be any more powerful against infantry than they already are.

But what's more than that, buffing AP against infantry just puts AP right back on top again.

I kinda agree with Pelojian, but I'd personally take it a bit further. AP can't OHK infantry, period. Best DPS by far. HE can OHK with it's splash, but is at a definite disadvantage against armour. HEAT could do more damage against light armour like harassers but lack OHK against infantry, being better against light armour than AP and worse against heavy armour and infantry.

A bit drastic perhaps, but it creates a proper reliance on allies to fulfill the work the main cannon cannot while giving each cannon a valid purpose and cutting down on the craptastic fish-in-a-barrel infantry farming.

Due to how they removed a bunch of resistance types, this is no longer possible unless they admit they was wrong and re-add them. We all know how much they love admitting that, especially when it comes to vehicles. But CAI was a good update guys, lol.

I always have to laugh when people are complaining in a high velocity moving vehicle with effective weapon ranges where the short range of vehicles is considered long range for most infantry weapons. This vehicle is immune to most weapons and only has a few infantry weapons that can damage is. The best infantry weapon is practically the shortest range weapon in the game that can only be dropped to the ground onto or close to the vehicle and then detonated, taking seconds to fully deploy and detonate.

This package is the best effective weapon and moaned about by a lot of vehicle drivers and I find it incredibly funny. How is it that knowledge of movement and capabilities of other weapons are very well known and not whined about when they tactically outmanoeuvre the vehicle drivers, but when an infantry somehow gets close enough to drop these it is the worlds end?

It seems to me that these people are just not considerate of the capabilities, either due to force of will or disbelief, and do not position themselves/have situational awareness/have adequate backup to prevent this from happening. They got blind-sighted. They paid a fair price for anything that makes a grave tactical mistake. Huge damage/destruction of the vehicle.

thyphoonammo which does more damage than default rocklets have more drop so they are more like grenades and unless you are in front of a vehicle a full magdump is inaccurate as all hell
default rocklets are only good for finishing of vehicles, before LA´s ONLY needed C4 now they HAVE TO use the rocklet rifle ...
and C4 generally is expensive enough

they do damage to everything but heavy armor

still the c4 costs nanites EVERYTIME you use it, for tanks be it MBT or lightning you pay nanites once and could kill people indefinetely ..

personaly i´m against coaxial weapons, the mbt already has access to a topmounted secondary
the lightning is a armored firesupportweapon i rather would give it the option of a walker- or basiliskesk turret for AI, were the skyguard is a pure AV weapon