NC LMGs or "is the Promise really good?"

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by DarkStarAnubis, Mar 6, 2018.

  1. Prudentia

    that IS the only better stat it has. and it didn't get it for free, it got it for worse recoil and less accuracy
  2. Campagne

    The two are very close. Pointlessly close., so much for that ES weaponry, eh?

    But according to the stats listed on the wiki, the Maw actually has arguably better horizontal recoil and better vertical recoil at the cost of a slightly higher FSM. It also has a bit longer reload. Accuracy wise, it traded a better moving ADS initial CoF for a better moving hipfire CoF.

    "Free" being an innate advantage, but you already knew that.

    Now, let's try to stay on topic. This thread is about the Promise and how it compares to other NC LMGs, not VS ones. :p
    • Up x 1
  3. Prudentia

    u wot.
    the Maw has a FSR of between 1.25 and 0.875 and the anchor has 0.88
    the first shot after that is between 0.4 and 0.5 for the maw and 0.4 for the anchor
    the third shot is between 0.45 and 0.5 for the maw and 0.4 for the anchor
    the fourth shot is 0.5 for the maw and 0.4 for the anchor

    The vertical recoil of the maw is between 0.175 and 0.225 and the anchor has 0.18
    it also grows by 0.01 with every shot

    to top it all of the Maw has an angle variance between 10 and 20 degrees while the Anchor has a more consistent 18/20 angle variance.

    at BEST the Maw has equal recoil to the anchor for 3 bullets. on average it is worse in every recoil metric. and there is nothing that comes free with the weapon.

    same holds true for the Promise. it has an initally high variance kick between 0.8 and 0.32 followed by a 0.16/0.35, 0.16/0.3 etc.

    and comparing it to VS LMGs is quite important, afterall the 143@698 tier is represented twice in the VS arsenal and can be used as a baseline to compare against. and the promise simply compares quite favorably against both with better accuracy and recoil, higher ammo count with longer reload and a reduced max CoF as a counterpart to their reduced bloom.
  4. stalkish

    But then VS cant shout 'we are the victims' at the top of their voice.

    Until everyone is convinced that VS weapons are all inferior and their win rate is purely and totaly skill based they will cry, in any and every thread they possibly can.
    Been a fundamental virtue of the VS since release when their mag got nerfed, it will not change.
    • Up x 2
  5. Prudentia

    we aren't the ones who are crying that a more accurate version of one of our best LMGs is "THE WORST WEAPON IN THE GAME!!!ONEELEVEN"
  6. Campagne

    Do you not know how these things work?

    No, VS LMGs are not important because the NC can't use them. And LMGs NC can use is the entire point of this thread. ;)

    It's easy to fall into the victim role, but the VS takes it to the extreme. :p
    • Up x 2
  7. Prudentia

    oh sorry i must have joined the wrong discussion then. i thought this was a thread where we talk about balancing the game but apparently it's only a NC ********** where they just complain that a new weapon is not the new definitive best weapon in the game.
    I rest my case and will no longer interrupt you guys with such annoying things as facts.
  8. JibbaJabba

    Mmm, the pause only baits a few people. Most you don't need to bait. They'll charge right in to the full auto fire. :p
    • Up x 1
  9. JibbaJabba



    Sounds good, take care.
    • Up x 2
  10. Hegeteus

    How come when you enter these threads on page 3 they're already about some random stuff.

    Why are other factioners so offended when NC talk about their LMGs anyway? Promise may or may not be the worst LMG in NC, but I'm willing to wager that Promise would not be the best LMG in either enemy faction or NC for that matter. It hardly matters what weapons are the worst, as much as what are the best.
    • Up x 2
  11. iDante

    mate you know whats the problem ?
    VS got upgraded version of our BEST LMG how the hell are we supposed to even fight back now?developer that balances the weapons need to be replaced asap b4 it turns into even bigger mess
  12. DemonicTreerat

    Probably because they're scared that if the NC keep talking about this stuff a developer will notice, do some tests, then go "hey guys, they have a point. We need to either improve some of the NC LMGs stuff or nerf the VS & TR ones a bit". And nothing scares the forum warriors of the TR and VS more than the thought of the typical NC heavy being as competitive in normal base fights as the typical VS or TR heavy. As long as they can keep derailing threads and throwing up their usual suite of lies, opinion-pretending-to-be-fact, etc they figure they can keep the developers from taking any thread too seriously.

    After all, there was a time in PS1 when player discussion lead to tests that proved that the Lasher there was severely behind its counterparts in kills-per-clip. Tests that the developers took seriously and resulted in changes to the Lasher that caused a whole lot of whining by the TR and NC as suddenly a VS heavy wasn't as quite such as disadvantage as before. And people who have gotten used to having a crutch hate it when you take it away.
  13. pnkdth

    The fact you think it is an upgraded version is the issue. Prudentia is not wrong in the stats he post but you guys are hellbent of being the victim in this.


    This is the funniest post in this thread. Victim complex + intense paranoia. Forumside warrior royalty right here.
    • Up x 1
  14. BamaRage

    the tr watchman is op as f...
  15. The Shady Engineer

    Jesus Christmas, and they say the TR has a victim complex. :eek:
    • Up x 3
  16. Hegeteus

    Don't worry, I doubt devs come looking for balancing ideas in the forums. I don't believe this thread is a balance request anyway, so there's nothing really for TR or VS to derail anyway even when a small part of them try to do so.
    Best thing to do would've been to ignore them and continue the discussion and I'd berate my replies too if the thread hadn't already gone off it's hinges.
  17. DarkStarAnubis

    Back to the original topic (that is, whether the Promise is really good compared to the existing NC LMG panoplia). I worked out all the possible combinations (with SPA/HVA) and I got some interesting things. At the first glance, the effect of having SPA/HVA seems overestimated.

    Anyway, this time in step-by-step fashion to facilitate the discussion. Here's the raw DMG per bullet at various distances:
    [IMG]

    Now, let's turn the data in BTK (bullets to kill) given a 1000 health target:[IMG]

    And finally, TTK taking in account the individual ROF of every LMG:
    [IMG]

    Which fundamentally places the Promise as kind of "all-round" LMG: not bad in general, but not shining either at any particular range. Considering also the relatively high reload time (4.75" for the short reload, compared to 3.5"/EM1, 3.37"/Anchor, 2.275"/GD22S) again I fail to see why it should provide a substantial advantage for the average Joe Doe player (like me).

    This without taking in account the effects of the Recoil Scaling mechanism.

    I have the impression all three LMGs (Watchman, Promise and Meow) suffer of not having a clear personality. The Watchman is a bullet hose but hard to control at distance and with a reload time that at CQC is a death sentence, the Promise has a so-so damage model and a so-so ROF coupled with a longer-than-usual reload time. The Meow seems a kind of "medium/long range" thingy with the UA but has more drop damage compared to the Ursa, slower speed and small(er) magazine as well.

    Fear of proposing something really standing out after the Canis+UA rage tzunami?
    • Up x 2
  18. JibbaJabba

    Really man. The spreadsheets.

    Go play with it. Try it out at full auto -vs- a nearby wall. You'll learn more from a 30 second demonstration than a spreadsheet.
  19. LordKrelas

    When it's about the data, You want to actually use data.
    The feel of 5 seconds in-game, isn't actually going to be 5 seconds - it could be 3, it could be 8.
    However, the actual number is 5.

    Not to mention, you aren't going to see the differences unless drastic.
    It's akin to estimating the distance between two-points, compared to having the hard-data: Which do you think is better?
    The eye-balled data, or the actual solid data?
    • Up x 1
  20. pnkdth


    2/3rds of the data is absolutely worthless though.

    I laughed out loud when I saw the "bullets to kill"-stats. Like, what? REALLY? The least damaging bullets require the MOST bullets to kill. Who could have known?!?!!??! Following that up with damage over distance without any context? Again, the damage over distance is higher on higher damage weapons? Mind. Blown. AGAIN. Who knew? 200 is a bigger number than 143! Wow.

    The only data presented here that is actually relevant is TTK. Telling us exactly what we knew already. It is a 698RPM weapon in the 143 damage class which isn't going to blow anyone's minds on spreadsheets.
    • Up x 1