[Suggestion] Underbarrel weapon update

Not that I'm doubting you, but how long ago was that, out of interest?

No disagreements there. Having it on the "1" key (assuming one is on PC) is pretty awkward.

We really don't need an additional dedicated button for UB weapons. Just add it to the "Switch Fire Group" function.
Then we can simply cycle through the fire modes like we already do on certain weapons.

I will do science (get a mate to shoot me in the face) tonight and get back to you!

And what's that going to help?
Having to press 1 to switch to the UB is more useful than using the switch fire group function, because with pressing 1 you can switch to the UB and back to normal mode with just 1 click each time. But with the switch fire group function you would have to cycle passed semi auto and burst (if you have it) each time you want to go back and forth between the UB and normal fire.

Considering how much thought you put into that, I don't think you have a point with "we don't really need a dedicated button". We don't really need to give the Medic solo access to the AR either, but it's a nice addition to the game as it adds variety and gives more reasons to use something like in this case the Medic class.

What does my suggestion help? Counting UB weapons as an additional fire mode would feel way more intuitive than repeatedly selecting the primary weapon. Counting UB weapons as an additional fire mode also helps avoid having to allocate additional keys. Adding a dedicated key solely for UB attachments, as you suggest, may be slightly more intuitive than repeatedly selecting the primary weapon. But it is also complicates gear selection keybindings compared to moving UB weapons to fire modes.

Now if you really must insist on being able to select UB weapons without cycling fire modes, how about a compromise?
Move UB weapons to an existing gear slot by moving all other selectable gear down one slot for loadouts which contain UB weapons. This way we could select UB weapons with number keys or with the mouse wheel without the unnecessary allocation of a further separate key solely to UB weapons.

- The primary weapon stays number 1
- The UB weapon becomes number 2
- The secondary weapon gets moved down to number 3
- The tool goes to number 4
- etc... But only for loadouts containing UB weapons


But a dedicated key, just for UB weapons? No thanks, that's almost as bad as what we have now.

Ask PS4 users how they like it.

There is also the Battle Rifle's underbarrel attachment.

While it's an opinion born of players so obsessed with stats that even small number differences are treated like the end of the world, do you really want to see more weapons be given (comparatively) lackluster statistics?

Since we are talking about ease of use: the UBGL-mounted Carbines already have three fire modes through which to cycle. Where in the fire cycle would you like it and why would that make it more accessible to someone in any of the given fire modes? I like the argument that it would make it more consistent but that's not the kind of accessibility other people are talking about here.

I'd like to clear things up on the UBGL since there seems to be some uncertainty on the subject. Copy-pasted from iridar.net:

Indirect Damage: 700 @ 0.1m - 50 @ 5m
Switch Time: 0.8 sec
Direct Damage: 500
Splash damage to infantry is applied on direct hits, so direct hits with UBGL deal 1200 damage and can one-hit-kill most infantry targets.
On direct hits, UBGL deals moderate damage to MAXes and minor damage to vehicles:

• ~33.3% damage of default ESF’s health
• ~25% of default Harasser’s health
• ~14% of Lightning’s health from the side. 12.5% in front armor.
• 48.75% of MAX’s health (33.75% in full Ordnance Armor)

Headshot Damage Multiplier: 2x
Headshot Damage Multiplier of 2x gives UBGL an interesting application of one-shotting almost all infantry targets on a headshot at close range. Or you can combo a UBGL body shot with a quick knife swing.
Leg Shot Damage Multiplier: 1x
Reload Time: 3 seconds
Projectile Speed: 45 m/s
Projectile Gravity: 7
Projectile Lifespan: 3 secondsArming Distance: 10 meters
Due to this Arming Distance, grenades will not explode when fired at target closer than 10m, but direct damage is still applied to all targets. Since vehicles do not receive splash damage, it makes no difference whether you are outside Arming Distance or not.
Hip Accuracy: 1 / 2.5* / 1.5 / 2
* – it appears that UBGL is bugged, and is the most inaccurate while crouch moving.
(crouching still, crouch moving, standing still, standing moving)
Flying / Jumping: 7
Fire Detect Range: 50m
Ammunition Resupply Time: 5 seconds
Underbarrel Grenade Launcher increases weapon’s Equip Time by 0.15 seconds.

Yep, but sadly this has bigger chances to be noticed if posted on Reddit.

holy... "Minor damage against vehicles"?
Thats more damage than rocketlaunchers deal
i'm gonna have to skip Auraxiuming the Equinox Burst and just do the Equinox and the Yumi as my last 2 weapons to get the darkstar. with that much damage i don't even need to play heavy

Cycling through several fire modes (semi-auto, burst) that is rarely ever used just to get to an underbarrel setting is more intuitive? Yeah sure...

You don't have to allocate additional keys for this to work. We already have X, which is "toggle attachment" and allows you to turn your laser sight/flashlight on or off. Since you aren't equipping a laser sight/flashlight, you would now be "toggling" your UB weapon, IE firing it or if it's empty reloading it.
"Problem" solved!

Yeah, using the key already designated for UB attachments is less intuitive than allocating it to the B key which switches the main armanents fire modes... I'm beginning to see a pattern here.

Me: "Let's add a button to fire UB weapons instantly, rather than have to switch to them".
You: "We don't need it, force us to switch even more to get to the UB weapon".
Me: "Just because you don't need it doesn't mean it can't improve the game".
You: "Let's do a compromise: We don't add anything that you want, and just go with the current setup by you can switch to it with pressing 2 instead of 1".

That's not a compromise, that's just keeping it as you wanted it without any consideration of what I wanted.

Yeah, cycling through more weapon configurations to get to the UB weapon is waaay better than just pressing the dedicated selection key of the weapon you would already be holding. Oh and having a dedicated key, which is incidentally already a key we have in use for attachments, is far too complicated compared to pressing the dedicated selection key of the weapon you are holding. /s.

Well, thank you for making your position clear. Your elaboration has helped me realize how thoroughly I disagree with... pretty much the entirety of your suggestion and reasoning. I respect your effort to improve the current situation, but it seems that our preferences in terms of gameplay are fundamentally different and can't be reconciled. I'll leave you to it.

Considering that you have displayed a total lack of logic while I have provided lots of it, it has to be this logic that you disagree with. Also you haven't respected my effort, for example by "compromising" without trying to incorporate anything I said in the compromise and basically just doing what you wanted but only slightly different. You haven't even given me any reason why we don't need this, while I have given reasons to use it. All you've done is say that it's inconvenient for you personally because for some reason you think that adding more things to cycle through before reaching the UB weapon is a better thing than what we have now. So I don't believe a word of what you said, there's no respect and the "fundamentally different preferences in gameplay" comes down to that I use logic and reasons as to why this would be good for the game and you don't.

I agree with the whole change the UL's they're pretty lackluster and gimicky right now with smoke and engineer UBGL non VS Lasher AOE being the only semi decent use of them. Any change or update would be welcome.

I also agree that macro keyboards are ********. The simple solution to macro keyboards is to allow simple scripts within game. The rocket jump from Quake could be performed by anyone using an in game script long before macro keyboards were even an idea. Just setup the script bind it to whatever key you wanted, press the button, bam, perfect rocket jump. Now a days scripts are gone from competitive gaming, except you can accomplish literally the same thing with macro keyboards...soo...wtf...Allow scripts; now that 100-200$ macro keyboard or mouse isn't much of an advantage. We can't have that in PC gaming though. It's been decades and entire markets have sprung up around getting a leg up by buying some new fangled peripheral "guaranteed" to increase your performance.

I had hope for the console community once. "Everyone plays with the same gear" takes who has the biggest budget out of the equation. Which imo is the epitome of true human competition. But consoles are going the same way PC did. Buy a faster rig (PS4 Pro, XBOX 1X), mouse and key emulators, gaming TV's (it's amazing how much Smart TVs can change input response times. The worst setups can add >100ms) Surround Sound, etc etc. *sigh*

Ok enough of my soap box.

Yeah I'm all for underbarrel changes. If DBG's doesn't want to tweak existing how about an under barrel flame thrower. 8P

How about allowing us to map it to the unused tertiary fire option? Not like any existing weapon uses that option.


As to balancing them. Just make the grenade launcher's 10 meter arming distance apply for both direct and splash damage. Even better do that plus keep the velocity and gravity the same but have the round exit parallel to the barrel, which would limit its effective range to probably 20 meters unless the target was at a fairly steep angle below you. If people (like myself) want to still use it as a mini-mortar then we can still go through the "press 1 (or maybe X as that makes more sense...) to deploy the sights" to have it function as it does now (while respecting the minimum distance). Kind of like how actual grenade launchers work; range is extremely poor due to a heavy projectile and low velocity (on par with sport-legal paintball guns) unless arcing the shots.

As for the shotgun option. Isn't that the entire point of having a shotgun mounted onto your rifle (given that we don't have to breach doors in PS2) in lieu of the advantages of a laser sight, fore grip, or other option? To have an edge in close-quarters situations. Given that the weapons that have the option to mount an underbarrel shotgun either give up some hard stat (the S-series) or are gated and generally less effective than other directive weapons without using that shotgun, one would hardly have to worry about their suddenly becoming overpowered. Especially since its a one-shot shotgun with all the tendency of RNG to make 3/4 of your pellets find the only bit of empty space in the circle and no option for slugs.

And my suggestion for a new underbarrel option. An rail mounted laser designator. Something that can be used by troops on the ground to paint targets for Hornets (I know, air and infantry actually working together - blasphemy), bombs from a proper Liberator, or even put a "(insert option from pull down menu) here" marker on the map.

Yes, that kind of thing would be lovely. Not just for UB weapons, but for extra weapons and abilities on tanks as well.

The problem would be the ease-of-use if you could fire it instantly, and the chance of a OHK without sacrificing a whole lot. If you switch to your UBGL now you run the risk of getting ambushed and unable to properly defend yourself, but the downside is far too harsh. I would make it even more of a mortar by making it about it's splash, and trying to get repeat hit if you are trying to flush someone out of cover while being able to hose them down should they pop up behind cover (but the COF increase after a shot would make you a bit more vulnerable, balanced by the fact that if you did it right you would have damaged them already).

Imagine an Ambusher LA, he jumps across a field, OHK's player 1 with the UB gun and instantly opens fire on guy number 2. Or you ambush someone but think knifing is too much of a risk or time consuming so you just blast them and be gone before anyone is any wiser. Or you have a normal fight, and halfway through you get within a good range and you pop off the UB shotgun, due to the OHK potential it would have so much damage that even a lightly damage opponent -->which you are still spraying with normal automatic fire<-- would be easily beaten. The fact that you would still be pretty good at ranged combat without much sacrifice would make it OP.

Better relegate it to a DPS advantage for the worst performing weapons. It gives them the versatility, but not too cheap a kill potential.

I don't think that such teamwork would work well, but I see no reason not to add it. I would rather change it a bit like this: Someone can deploy a mortar/artillery piece somewhere. You can link up to such an artillery piece by using the laser designator on them for a moment (or by holding the Q-radial menu and selecting it to prevent your previous artillery piece from accidentally firing at it). Then you can fire the designator and if you paint a target long enough, the artillery fires. This way you still need a LOS to fire a non-LOS weapon. If the designator has enough bells and whistles, and if the ammo has enough bells and whistles too, then it can easily be balanced so that players won't think they get magically killed by something they never saw coming, for example because there's sounds, projectile trails, slow muzzle velocity and perhaps even HUD indicators to show that something's up. But that would probably be overkill in the "warning you are about to be attacked by a non-LOS weapon" department.

You could also do what Battlefield 3 did - there were 2 kinds of underbarrel shotguns - 40mm one with a single shot and an extended OHK range, and a small magazine-fed shotgun which acted like a smaller pump-action SG.

VS directive carabine has an UBSG how marvelous would be to have a quick shot button on that... baybe have it integrated to the heat mechanic? Or that maybe too much "VS-OP side" to ask?

Well having an underbarrel OHK shotgun with infinite ammo that never needs to be reloaded which can be fired instantly at the touch of a button is pretty overpowered, VS or not.

OHK is simply unreliable with the underbarrel. Either you make sure that 100% of the circle is on the target's torso or he is not dying in one click... but i agree with you on that.