[Suggestion] Let's talk about phoenix

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Kshatriya, Dec 20, 2017.

  1. typnct

    the for phoenix argument is basically: its low dps so its not a good weapon

    the answer for this is: what would you rather? risk dying and hitting once or twice or deal a sure hit on a target?
    id take the deal a sure dmg on the target anyday

    managing to hit is not always easy on a moving target
    so the phonix does its role better than any other rocket launcher(even better than the decimator)

    id rather hit a target once than shoot it 3 times and hope i can hit twice

    also being able to shoot from spawn is funny and shouldnt be allowed with any type of rocket launcher
  2. LordKrelas

    Hitting a moving target with a phoenix isn't simple - and during the process, unlike with other weapons, you are stationary & blind.
    So the Phoenix user can not dodge, can not even see if an enemy is in-front of them, nor can switch weapons to defend themselves better - They just die.

    As well, for all of that vulnerability, you literally just get out-repaired while being the easiest kill possible.

    You can shoot from spawn with rockets, only the Phoenix however would require the user to be unable to re-enter the room during the flight.
    Which basically puts it in a far worse position than other Launchers pretty hard, pretty quick.
    Since it would be basically impossible to not be screwed while firing it.
  3. typnct

    worse position? how?
    you will be able to take dmg when you shoot?

    welcome to vs and tr's life so far
  4. LordKrelas

    No, you'd be sniped easily, and be unable to move while everyone else can literally move back into the shield after firing.
    Phoenix? No, Sniper bait, and perfectly immobile for the entire flight of the missile.

    And also means, the weapon has no place to fire near spawn, given how easily the spawn is watched in all directions.
  5. typnct

    why the f*** would you stand in the middle of the field and shoot tanks with any rocket launcher?

    answer:you dont you shoot from a place where you most likely wont be sniped(behind a curve in the ground or in one)

    but with the phoenix its easier!
    you just go behind something and shoot to your hearts content untill its dead

    its like a mobile av turret but with hand track!

    seriously do you think its somehow fair that a phoenix rocket gets inside a garage after doing three loops in the air wave to the sundy go buy a sandwich in the next building and killing the sundy eventually?

    what does the vs has:direct hit
    tr:anti air

    yeah like air battles happen so much that the striker is so needed
    vs - yes it is usefull but theres a huge but here its strictly needs more than 2 people to be effective

    phoenix? 2 guys no problem that prolwer or whatevers on that hill is as good as dead
  6. LordKrelas

    Middle of field?
    To fire rockets besides the Phoenix, you step outside the shield, fire, and step back.
    This is impossible for the phoenix.

    As well, every single possible piece of cover, is one-directional.
    Followed by easily reached, or simply handled: During the firing, the enemy has free-rein on a perfectly still target.
    And the trail is easily followed, let alone with 300 meters or less distance.

    If any idiot lets a Phoenix shoot without murdering the hapless sod...
    They either are easily too close to a spawn, or can't be arsed to kill a defenseless target that can not even kill them with the missile.

    Mobile AV turret... AV turret actually isn't out-repaired easily, nor is vulnerable to every possible thing.
    Not to mention, a Phoenix user can not eject out of the turret.
    And if it's the Engineer turret, which is generally suicide... it's an even worse comparison.

    *No one can loop a damn Phoenix 3 times in the air...*
    Not to mention, a single engineer at that sundy, is getting the certs without the danger of proper AV..
    And if they wish, they can follow the missile, and knife the launcher to death.

    You are not killing prowlers on hills, with 2 phoenixes.
    Not unless the prowlers would be easily killed by the Spiker Pistol as well.
  7. TR5L4Y3R


    ... except that wasn´t me that said that ...

    somethings off with the forum or something?
  8. Demigan

    Something off with my copy-keys. I always copy and paste the quote name, but apparently that didn't happen so your name kept returning when I pasted. Sorry.
  9. BadCoding

    The Phoenix is pretty powerful if used correctly in defense and as long range (up to ~280) fire support weapon.
    It forces enemies to either find the spot it's fired from or to find a safe spot or to leave.

    The weapon only has 3 weaknesses:
    1) the heavy using it can be sniped easily due to standing still while guiding the missile (that's why the spawnroom thing is a problem in the first place)
    2) shooting the missile deflects it into another direction so it's the only projectile in the game that can be deflected by shooting at it
    3) the projectile is bad at aiming up & down (probably to aid aircraft in not being destroyed by the weapon as easily as ground targets)

    Actually no single weapon should be able to penetrate safe room shields to safely attack from inside. The whole mechanic just exists because of the poor base layout that most bases have: Most often just a single spawn room exists that can easily be surrounded and camped from multiple directions instead of multiple spawn rooms per base, most often there's a huge gap in defenses because the bases' layout only faces one direction while having none elsewhere, so for example all defenses face in our direction while the direction the enemy comes from doesn't have any defenses pointing there - or even anything, most often defenses (static, pre-installed defense turrets) can't be reached easily by defenders but shot easily by the enemy, most often leaving the spawn room by using multiple paths that makes sense and an actual difference in approach isn't possible as such a concept doesn't exist, most often there's no cover around the spawn room, most often there are no defense turrets of any kind near spawn rooms and there's absoluterly no air cover most often either.

    When attempting to remove the ability to attack from inside a spawn room it shouldn't be restricted to one weapon as all weapons and everyone doing this aren't attackable and therefor play unfair. It's either all or none and quite frankly actually the game needs to change and then that attacking from inside can also be removed.
  10. chamks

    haha phoenix is the best! seriously now, 25% of my gameplay time is killing staff with phoenix! i think my nc chr name is cham1, if youll meet me im probably killing infils and sunderers with phoenix
  11. Hegeteus

    I could live with Phoenix having it's reload bug fixed and inability to shoot through spawn-shield, but then I'd expect firing-from-valkyrie bug to be fixed as well and better mechanics for the guider(for example enemy fire interrupting missile guidance and reduced headshot multiplier by reasonable decree). You'd still be a sitting duck, but on these terms I wouldn't feel completely naked outside a spawnroom(or OP either).
    Fixing of the valkyrie bug isn't really essential as you got better rocketlaunchers for the job, but that would be at least some kind of lifeline for the Phoenix in case we stripped it's functionality.
  12. paleopterix

    How can you even COMPARE mana turrets ot anything else with the phoenix? Mana turrets don't even have a lousy zoom or targeting system. And you have to have visual sight of your target to hit it.
  13. paleopterix

    I completely agree. As of today, I think I will stop playing this game, after 3 years, only BECAUSE of the phoenix. It is so OP and it ruins the game in such a manner that I cannot keep playing this way. Whenever there's a fight for a base with the NC, you'll always see 2-3 (at least) heavies camping inside the spawn room, firing endless number of rockets. All vehicle battles are ruined, because the NC has always the advantage, with the help of the phoenix launchers (as if having the best MBT wasn't enough for the NC!).
    What is the problem with the phoenix, from my point of view?
    1) WAY TOO MUCH RANGE. They have so much range that they can score kills INSIDE the adjacent bases, without moving from the spawn room - where they can camp safe and with unlimited ammo. What kind of gameplay is this????? This is crazy!!!
    Anyway, even from a physican point of view, as a TV guided missile, it should have very limited range. WAY less than the distance between two bases, anyway!
    They nerfed the AA turrets - because they said AA turrets were ruining air battles! What about tank battles, which are ruined from the start when phoenix launchers are used?
    2) This crap SHOULD NOT pass through the shield (of the spawn room). A lot of missile launchers can't be fired from the spawn room, why exactly THIS ONE is allowed??? If the NC has to have this OP launcher, at least they should be forced to expose themselves somehow, so the rest of us (VS and TR) could stand a chance to counter the threat! You can't fight someone camping inside his spawn room!!!!
    I really can't understand a bit the logic of the implementation of this rocket. How is one supposed to fight against it, if the launchers stay inside the spawn room and can hit you everywhere, up to the next base? How is this FAIR when ONLY THE NCs can take out every sunderer around a base without moving their ***** from the spawn room, while all other factions have to get out and fight in order to do the same?

    Of course, all the NCs here will defend their pretious "asset", I expect nothing less from them. They have so much fun with it, probably. But it absolutely ruins the vehicle fight experience for the Vs and TR, and it destroys the game balance in so many ways...
    And let me be clear: I have nothing agains any other faction specific weapons out there. The TR has the best ESF, the NC has the best MBT, the VS has..nothing...etc. This is normal. But the phoenix really breaks the game.
  14. LordKrelas

    Best MBT... smoking something hard.

    VS has had the most broken toys right next to TR.
    Saron, Vulcans, Gate-Keepers, Canis UA, ZOE..

    Vehicle experience: Obviously not ruined for NC, having the longest repair times, fighting the agile Magrider armed with a long-range AV, the Prowler armed with brutal double-shot cannons & AV of medium to long-range..
    Strikers to blast aircraft, and Lancers to strike from extreme range.

    The Phoenix, able to be shot down & out-repaired, definitely kills the vehicle game.
    Heaven forbid a shield is used.

    VS as well, hasn't been left out.
    They have the record for OP-on-Release tools.
    TR is right behind them.
    NC has the record for fastest nerfs.
    • Up x 1
  15. paleopterix

    That's could be an alternative.... deleting one of my chars and making a TK NC char. And clean every damn spawn room of phoenix launchers! Ugly perspective, I would really hate doing this, but on the other hand, I see no other solution, until this gets fixed somehow.
  16. paleopterix


    As I said, I could not expect less from an NC.
    "agile Magrider"???????????????? An MBT without main gun turret, hard as hell to control because it is FLOATING, weakest armor of all MBTs. Its only "ability" is that it can climb some rocks. But what good is it, where every decent MBT with a turret can hit it there, anyway?
    I play(ed) lots of the time as a lightning driver, and by far, between prowlers and vanguards, the hardest to destroy is the vanguard, because the heavy armor and the shield! And I'm sure that if I had to fight a magrider (without gunman), it wouldn't even get to scratch my lightning, because I would move around it faster than it could turn to shoot me.

    "Strikers to blast aircraft"???? There is a LOCK-ON alert, as well as a certain delay, so one could seek cover or even dodge the incoming missiles. NOT the case with the phoenix! Even the ranges are not the same! I doubt you can lock on to a vehicle that sits near the next base, from your own spawn room!

    "The Phoenix, able to be shot down" Really, ABLE sure, it is. I suggest you try and hit them. Spend your gameplay shooting down blue orbs.
  17. paleopterix


    If this was true, let's make a deal: let's exchange all the "OP" VS weapons for the NC ones, including the phoenix... You talk about the canis..it now is a nerfed piece of crap that cost me 1000 certs to unlock. You can have it, for all I care! What else? The striker? Take it and give VS the phoenix, would ya?
  18. LordKrelas

    Actually I drive the Magrider - If you drive it like an massive infantry unit, it drives the best in my opinion.
    Weakest armor is false: Magriders & Prowlers shared the same armor.
    And now all three share the same armor, as it was converted into health -- so Magriders & Prowlers are equal.

    The Magrider's abilities, is the Magburn, the ease of climbing, the ability to strafe, and always keep the front armor on target.

    The Vanguard is only hard to destroy in a "Face-tanking" contest, where nothing is done but sit still & fire as many times as possible.
    This is where the Shield is king, and the Vanguard is entirely reliant on it.
    If it didn't have the shield, the Prowler would mulch it: And the Magrider would as well.

    Strikers do not lock-on like other launchers.
    They lock-on once they are within range of the aircraft after having been fired already -- other lock-ons trigger the warning as they are aimed not after they are fired.

    The Phoenix has horrible turning, a loud sound, and deals little damage.

    I did actually shoot down the missiles, with a Beamer.
    While repairing a Sunderer with a grenade - Easiest certs.

    You really want to lose the Saron for a bunch of near identical Shotguns?

    Canis's UA, not the gun itself, needed a rebalance since the UA granted basically a head-hitbox hack into legal play.
    So, yes that "piece of crap" seems pretty useless after having the largest headshot zone possible.

    You know what is sad?
    NC's low-fire-rate actually would have a harder time hitting the Phoenix's missiles than TR or VS.
    In addition, the Vanguard is a massive target -- So also easier to hit, and takes the longest to repair.
    So, NC would be the easiest to kill with it.

    The Striker, is an effective weapon: Refer to Striker valks if nothing else.
    A feat, the Phoenix can't do either, as it explodes the very valk used.
    Lancer? Brutal weapon if used properly - and doesn't cause vulnerabilities.

    Not to mention, once VS is being brutalized by their own Beetleguise, Sarons, and Magriders..
    And all their Maxes reliant on RNG.
    You will not likely get them back - as NC will be laughing too damn hard.
  19. The Shady Engineer

    They also have twice the dps, twice the muzzle velocity, infinite ammo, can't be shot down and are far easier to co ordinate. Oh, and you don't need zoom to hit a freaking tank, man. Even at 300m (max range of both Phoenix and Mana AV). A steady hand and a pair of eye balls is all you need.
    • Up x 1
  20. paleopterix

    ::can't be shot down:: ???????????????? THEY CAN BE SHOT DOWN, and shooting them down kills the engie handling them too! Which HAS TO HAVE DIRECT LINE OF SIGHT with the target, thus giving the opponend a fighting chance! Unlike the phoenix! A heavy assault could fire a phoenix straight up from the spawn room and hit a tank or sundy 300m away, even if it is behind a rock or a building. How can you even compare this two situations? The mana turrent engineer has to expose himself in order to shoot. The phoenix can camp inside the spawn room! That is THE PROBLEM, not the damage or splash or anything else!