Magrider VPC - a joke?

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by LtBomber1, Dec 14, 2017.

  1. LtBomber1

    The nerfhammer strikes again, and hits the Magrider VPC (The HESH, old HE equivalent).

    Pre CAI:
    The only purpose of the weaopon was to fight infantry, while beeing worse against vehicles (needing 2 shots more than AP, one more than HEAT).

    After CAI:
    Some genius decided that you are in a disadvantage against other tanks. So they buffed it to be better (same) against their nemesis. Everyone runs it instead of AP, fighting vehicles (open field battle) and shooting infantry (a.k.a. farming the base when they cleared the area. This change is considered controvesial.

    Now:
    The 1HK is gone with splash (1050-->800), it is not usefull for killing its designed targets. Reload is to long for two shot, unlike the prowler, and you wont have the prowlers two chance on direct hit. This weapon is useless now.

    The argument was it had too many kills. Maybe...

    ... Everyone runs it, because no disadvantage?
    ... Farming infantry is done better, e.g. not destroying the sundi
    ... Enemies dont attack Magriders that likely
    ... Its used in camping more often, and only for that reason

    However, the DEVs stick on and say it is due to mobility:

    + Every tank can go/climb where a Mag can go without afterburner, even lightnings.
    + Mobilty for all tanks expect Mag were buffed
    + Mobility in Mag is traded for DPS (Prowler) and Hitpoints (Vanguard)
    + Magburn is traded for Lock-down (Prowler) and Shield (Vanguard)

    Just because the VS figuered out their strengh and play to it, a single fractions gun should not be nerfed. This is not imbalanced, it is just get the right tool for the right job at the right time. The HE (HESH) weapons were too effective versus tanks, not versus infatry. This nerf is actually contributed towards tactical/strategical understanding.

    Some marks:
    - If the 1HK is the problem, nerf other guns as well (TR/NC/NS)
    - If mobility is the problem, VS is just playing their strength right - Send a Harrasser/Tank/Air/LA/Flash+C4 etc to deal with them. Also with a bit of effort all tanks can do a lot of stuff.
    - If the splash damage/radius is the problem, it is for every fraction.

    My suggestion:
    It is a fraction specific vehicle, so some asymertirc balance can be done. However, a straight nerf can not be the solution.

    Lets see what the others got:
    Prowler - low damge, 2 shot (kill with splash) (no reload)
    Vanguard - High damage, 1HK splash
    Magrider - low damage +???

    I suggest giving the magrider more splash radius, like 5m. It would allow to kill infatry with two shots, while beeing on long reload. The possibility to "splash out" infantry more effective should be enough compensation for this nerf.


    TL; DR:
    As compensation for lowered splash damage on Magrider HE gun the blast radius should be increased significantly.
    • Up x 3
  2. Ziggurat8

    Years and years and years (5+) The VPC splash 1HK infantry...but suddenly it's unbalanced because it splash kills infantry.

    Rather than buff the other empire's HESH or tweak reload speeds or blast damage fall off or whatever to manage how much better it was performing. They decide to make it less effective than it's HEAT counter part the PC. Makes no sense. No reason to use VPC anymore. PC will perform the AI job better.

    GG
    • Up x 1
  3. chamks

    yes i agree with every word you two said!!!!!! wtf
  4. Bloodlock

    There's only a way we the VS players can protest against all the arbitrarial, unjustified nerfs VS received for so long...
    Stop buying DB points...
    • Up x 1
  5. BadCoding

    It's all just because being able to hill camp, get into bases and to places other tanks and not even Harassers can get to.
    Just pick a normal tank and you may have equally strong armor and ammo.

    Normal tank means:
    -uses treads that touch the ground for driving either back or forward with them, like the other factions' MBTs
    -has a turret for the main cannon, so that driving direction and aiming can actually be different, making it more complicated
    -scrap the turbo and grab anything combat related for it that's more or less balanced

    "Why should we give up the hover MBT with turbo that can get to places even Harassers can't get to ?" <- the actual issue

    Just make a deal: Lose Magrider, get new MBT that matches that of the other factions and gets one unique ability in trade for equally powerful weapons and armor.
  6. Prudentia

    there is not a single place in the game that a mag can go that a harasser can't. there is just a lot of places the mag can't leave anymore cause it got stuck where the harasser just passed through
    • Up x 1
  7. Bloodlock

    The most interesting thing about the Mag.... it floats, but tank mines are triggered by it... :p
  8. Prudentia

    magnetic peer preasure
  9. Bloodlock

    that way It should be triggered by infantry too... and low flying vehicles... I tested it once... placed mines under a Valkyre... it moved and didn't exploded... ಠ__ಠ
  10. Prudentia

    last time i checked it did actually work aslong as they landed on it. vehicles don't trigger mines if they are already on top of them when you throw them
  11. LtBomber1

    Yesterday i demonstrated, that a rival Lightning can get into same spots. I farmed the souls out of the Infatry with HESH. A outfit mate even got a Sundie up to us multiple times, providing excellnt repairs, so our farm does not get interrupted.

    The fixed turret, low placed gun on the Mag is more of disadvantage. You cant

    - drive and aim indepentely
    - shoot over hills or trenches you are in
    - fight flanking units effectiv, Harrassers are a Mags death
    - look around free and have to aim with the whole tank

    The advantage comes short:
    +Facing enemy you want to shoot allways with front

    The strafing is needed with the fixed gun
  12. Bloodlock

    Well... We need the statistcs to see how well MBT performs on each faction... on all servers...
  13. LtBomber1

    Irrelevant.
    The devs stated that the VPC has up to something like 50% more kills. They should have the numbers, but they are not communicating them. What are these numbers? KPU, Kills total, Kpm... We dont know.

    What if the performance is due to skill, overusage or other factors? Dont care, just nerf!

    Like i said in a other tread: Making things equal is very very different from making things balanced.
  14. Bloodlock

    By that line... Vulkan should be nerfed a long time ago... specially the Harasser one... :p
  15. HAXTIME

    Stopped reading right here.

    The problem is not where Mags go without afterburner, the problem is where Mags to with afterburner. And you are completely aware of this, as well as that Magrider VPC performs much better against infantry than the other 3. Taking this into consideration, the nerf was justified.
  16. moriarrr-ceres

    Yes and no. Most hills are easier to climb with reverse and rival chassis. Or the good "turtle move" (you turn your tank 360). Afterburner is not really the best option but can help when you want to jump on a rock/roof top. the onehit kill nerf doesn't change anything when you run a 2/2 magrider and your gunner will thank you for this wonderful Kobalt. I'm okay if 2 maned tank are better. I hope DBG understand that all tanks should not have one hit kill splash and promote teamplay. Stat wise It could be improved with velocity or reload speed IMO.
  17. LtBomber1

    You would have better read on:
    The magburner is traded for Lockdown/Shield. All are giving combat effectivness. Some direct, some indirect.
  18. stalkish

    I dont like the nerf tbh.
    Seems un-needed.
  19. Ziggurat8

    VPC magrider prepatch- I roll up on a super busy enemy sunderer and I'm scoring kills with every shot. I'm hanging out at about 50-70m where dumbfires and C4 fairies have a hard time hitting me and I just farm. I could rack up 20-30 kills easily.

    That's where it was over performing. Dense packed infantry outside of walls/terrain. That had always been where the VPC was strongest. The reduced reload speed and increased blast radius from CAI made it even better, way better. They made it too strong against everything else with CAI as well. Used to be you had VPC you were SOL against other vehicles.

    Now VPC is a 2hk on infantry inside ~2.5m with a 3.25 reload. PC is a 2HK on infantry inside 1m with a 2.75 reload. Both will 1HK on a direct hit. PC has a higher DPS vs other vehicles.

    I just can't see using VPC over PC in any situation outside of directive grinding after these changes. Which, whatever it is what it is, but personally I liked the old system where you gave something up, like effectiveness vs vehicles with the pre CAI VPC.

    Fix it till it's broken I always say!
    • Up x 1
  20. Bloodlock

    By that logic they should nerf ESF dmg to infantry the same way... [IMG]