What are you doing to VS?

...First world problems.

See that little hill over there? Insurmountable to the Vanguard and Prowler.

That won't stop players from trying every nook and cranny to get up some hill. And yes, they'll get stuck. A lot. Way more than Mags do in some corner scenario.

That is half truth. After the traction buff, I have seen, and gotten my prowler/vanguard up some pretty steep and previously inaccessible hills. The trick is to make small adjustments and keep the speed up. Basically, the track buff ate up alot of what was considered magrider territory.

Hell, in a 2/2 magrider I duelled a 2/2 prowler here(link under) the other day, was west of TI. alloys in the hills up from the creek between TI and Allatum, towards Allatum. Map on picture is old but it gives you a clue. The red ring consists of pretty steep hills with a bumpy surface. In the middle of the red ring is a large elongated rocky ridge. The prowler I fought, was faster than me around that rock section than I was. He had racer(asked him), I had rival. He was as stunned as I was of the fact that he negotiated the steep terrain with ease and faster than a rival max magburn magrider. In that cq with a good 2/2 prowler, facetanking is not an option, I had to hope to outmanouver him. But he had so good grip I couldn't get around him and he was so fast he just gained on me whatever way I turned and went around that rock ridge. He caught up to me eventually and dpssed me down. Just go there and look at the terrain. Typical mag territory pre track buff. The prowler now was faster than me in both turning, breaking and acceleration and speed up and down that area.
https://imgur.com/es2pMkO


My issue with this is that what's supposed to be the flank tank is also the slowest with the least dps and is the most dependent of a top gunner.
It also had it's flanking potential further needed from the track buff.
Inertia nerf +velocity buff on main guns made dodging a GOOD vang/prow gunner close to impossible inside 200 meters, and if you hide behind a rock, they just storm you and facetank you down.
People claim a mag can slide out behind a rock and fire before sliding in. Yes, but with a fixed centralized gun, you are showing half your hull for an easy target. They sit and wait for you, you have to slide out, spot if they've moved, adjust and fire. They just wait for you, fire and retreat a bit.

Claims and stats are made that mag is pulled least but performs equal or better than vang/prow. That is true in itself, but pair this stat with the fact that more of the mags have a top gunner than vang/prow, and ccombine this with the fact that NONE of these stats take into account driver/gunner skill and experience. They look at the raw result data without context.... skill and experience is ALOT of this game, you can't just ignore that fact.

Magrider must be the best tank! It can´t be different, because it can climb some rocks where no other tank has access to.

oh please... just because the mag rider have different movement system doesnt mean you need make her fire capabilities shi*t.
im pretty sure prowler can claimb 99% of the places mad can. and he is faster. and he freacking shoot twice. by two cannons.
and it really not our fault that one want to spend 20 min to try claimb a mountain and get stuck is a vehicle graveyard.

If the Magrider could easily fire & hit the larger more predictable other MBTs, it would never have a reason to get closer, which would mean the agility & evasive capability - which is strongest at a distance, would rarely not be the deciding factor.
After all, if it could fire as well at a distance where the evasive capability voids the enemy's shell...
You'd basically have a target that has a grand difficulty being hit, but has an equal shot at hitting an easier-to-hit opponent.

So, that's generally why the Magrider's main weapon isn't as easy as the Prowler or Vanguard for distance.
As at those distances, the Prowler & Vanguard have to hit the smaller target with less ability to even predict its motion.
So, if the Magrider had the ease of range, IE not as severe drop, it could fire more easily at range, which would amplify the evasive capability.

As presently, the Magrider reduces the evasive capability, to make it easier to hit the target & vice versa by closing the distance.
If it didn't have to, why would a Magrider ever get close, where only the enemy benefits?
as if it could stay at that distance, it would have the perks of its chassis, the enemy's predictable motions, and a weapon built for this range - It'd be in a superior position, unless the enemy managed to close the distance.
Which in turn, makes them easier to hit, while the Magrider suffers less from this.

IE if the Magrider didn't have the drop, it'd have an even higher advantage, and one it could easily keep.

I feel sorry for the decent VS who got lumped with all the baddies who joined up for some glory-seeking crutcheteering, because VS on balance got the slightly better toys over some patches. Then the baddies moan when something stupidly OP gets fixed.

My TR heart bleeds for you baddies and your suffering, truly, I'm only sorry my need for something vaguely akin to a fair game comes between you and your over-performing toy-of-the-month.

Take a hint from your superiors in the VS and 'git gud'.

No reason to ever use VPC again. None.

No reason to ever use UA again. None.

Why DBG doesn't just remove those things from the game? They'd have to refund. Can't do that.

It's pretty ******* lame but it is what it is. 2x zoom on PC or FPC and direct hit snipe. It's not that hard. Canis is still pretty amazing. Just don't use UA.

but vanguard and prowler dont make sniping competition with mag rider, they chase her until she explode.
and im not sure what you meant and what is your point with all that you wrote

As the harder-to-hit curved hull of the strafing Magrider ensures that if the Enemy Magrider can handle the distance..
The prowler & vanguard need to ensure to hunt it down, or ensure it can't get further.

As what I wrote, should've make it crystal-clear.
If the magrider had the same gravity, velocity, IE same ease of landing distant shots as the Vanguard & Prowler at range, the Magrider, with the evasive advantage at range, would have not only the easiest time landing hits against the Vanguard & Prowler, but also maximize their evasive advantage, which lets them literally dodge shots at that range.
Aka, If they didn't have the trouble, they would easily & be encouraged to stay at the range where it not only grants them a defensive advantage but an offensive advantage
- As in, they'd never have to sacrifice their full evasive power, to have an easier shot by closing the distance.
They'd stay at the range, where they can barely be hit, while the larger & predictable Vanguard & Prowler are easily hit by the magrider.

At present, no one bright even now, tries to snipe a Magrider at a good distance - as a strafing tank is ******* hard to hit at that distance.
And if it didn't need to close the distance to have an easier time firing at Vanguards & Prowlers, it would be well well too effective at range.
As it has the capability to evade shots, and keep the distance - and it would lose the motive to ever get closer.
As it serves it better to stay at a distance, where it can barely be hit, if it could also land the shots easily on the enemy.

Does that triplicate additional explanation help ?
That isn't sarcasm, it's a direct question, so I know if I need more rephrasing, and expanded bits to it.

Balancing them.

QQ.

If a Vanguard chases and catches your Magrider, you're Magriding wrong.

How on earth is the Magrider the worst MBT? It's far superior by the sheer ability to sidestep dodge incoming fire. It can hillclimb like a baws. And quite frankly I find the gun easier to use than either of the Vanguard and Prowler.

...And the Scythe. In my honest opinion Vanu has the best ES MBT and Fighter by a country mile. But hey, each to their own.

Especially since the Vanguard got 72kph speed.

The main reason the Magrider is difficult to hit is the tempo of its movement. (At least it now has a tempo. Coming out of Beta, it was more than capable of dodging a shell within fifty meters through sheer fluid motion.) If the Vanguard, Prowler, and even the Lightning are of movement "A," the Magrider is of movement "B." Where one would shoot at a Prowler or such is not the same instances when one would shoot at a Magrider.

I consider this debate similar to how people refuse to let the HA or even ESFs drift from a center into their own factions's corners too far because they're pursuing some kind of "honorable" median. It's too far and away to consider that one faction might, for a loose example, excel in AA while another in A2A, and the last in A2G; and, the middling force of their equality, should these opposing faction forces collide, is numbers and individual effort.

It seems, asymetrical balancing is often not easy to understand, especially for those playing only one empire.

mag can strafe... other tanks can too... turn it sideways... other tanks have a turret to turn their cannons... they will move faster than the Mag... ಠ__ಠ

Ah! So you're saying we should put side armor on the front of the Magrider?


I agree. Excellent suggestion my man!

already has the sidearmor of a vanguard infront

While, as usual, the capabilities of the Magrider gets blown so far out of the water it crosses over to another continent the VPC/unstable ammo was over-performing. Such is the life of VS. VS get the weird stuff and sometimes it is crap, sometimes it is just right and sometimes it is too good. In the case of the UA pretty much everyone called it as being OP (even before it went live).

still waiting for the day m lasher becomes OP :c