[Suggestion] A wild thought: what if we remove K/D?

I don't have a problem with K/D being in the game, because it's an expected staple of FPS and because many players want it.

What I don't understand, is why DBG doesn't add other stats and titles that many players would love to see. Namely I am talking about K/D, Total Kill, Killstreak, etc. numbers for specific targets (and that can be broken down by specific unit used). For example:
1) ESF kills by their ESF (who are the Aces by numbers?)
2) Air kills by their ESF
3) MBT kills by their MBT
4) ground vehicle kills by their MBT
5) PMB's destroyed
6) etc.

Let players sort their and other players stats on these types of things. Give them title for reaching certain numbers, ratios (overall or within a certain window of time), streaks, etc.

This is interesting.

Once you get past a point in the KD bracket, its starts to show you as a cheese ball farmer who cares for nothing but KD, NOT a good player IMO.

There are some REALLY rare cases, where a really good player will just like to farm (Im looking at you Mentis), but these are VERY VERY rare!

I'm all up for removing KD, its a very misleading stat.

In other games, KD has a relatively large measure of truth to it. The maps, weapons and starting positions are relatively balanced out (if not direct mirror-images) and it's easy to spot a farmer with 10+KD but a high loss-ratio because he's not really doing anything for his team vs a player who is actually good and supporting his team. But again, the key feature here is that there are other stats to tell you what playstyle is used.

PS2 at it's core is about unbalanced gameplay. There's always someone with more players or more force multipliers. Players can also leave a "match" and go somewhere they are better off, such as with a friendly overpop or where they can farm enemies with a tank/aircraft/MAX in relative safety while their allies protect him... By dying.

KD in PS2 needs to go. The "death" part is a bad thing that encourages players to avoid death. It should be about accomplishing the goals of the game, not farming infantry.
Every stat should as much as possible be displayed as a positive number, regardless of what type of statistic it is. KD has the negative of death tied to it, so people can farm it by avoiding death, which means avoiding much of the gameplay and letting other players do the dying for them. This is the same as WoW's sleep system of whatever it is called: When it was introduced it was presented as your XP diminishing over time as you played to give players who log out more often a chance to keep up. This caused massive negative reactions. Then the only thing they changed was their presentation, it was now a bonus for everyone who had logged out for a while and that bonus would fade over time. Suddenly everyone loved it. It shows how much influence a simple presentation can be and how influentual it can be on the game.

The following stats are must-haves:
Average Vehicle kills per minute as infantry
Average Vehicle kills per minute as vehicle
defensive area's pushed: Every time players stick around one area for some time, the area is marked for a defensive area. If the opposition manages to push all players off that area all the players who helped kill or damage someone within the last 15(?) seconds will receive a point in this stat. This heavily encourages players to try and breach chokepoints or area's an enemy is defending.
Average points per minute during combat (not counting extended periods away from combat to encourage players to try and flank)
Objectives completed (by you or by others while you were nearby to encourage people defending).
Support actions executed (reviving, repairing, healing, restocking ammo etc. The actions could be based on the XP gain to keep things like reviving more important).


Not must-haves, some might promote negative behaviour:
Damage done per life/minute
Damage received per life/minute
average resources used per life vs average resources destroyed per life

this is why i respect people with lower K/Ds it shows that they don't cherry pick fights and fall back as soon as they aren't the overpop.

i don't care about k/d, i'm an aggressive objective grabber and it shows in my K/D cuz i'll keep pushing a point just like a determined light assault will keep trying to c4 a particular vehcile. death is only an inconvenience.

if they removed K/D it would have a gradual change to the game via people coming into the game and realizing the game is supposed to be objectives based and would chase stats like SPM rather then K/D.

Your kind of players are who I admire in this game, I'm trying to learn this play style... which is painful when I remember there's a K/D being recorded.

Agreed.

Score/Kills per minute is much solid and friendly. The vets would still have a lot to brag about, while the noobs being farmed would not feel so painful.

It's a simple change in people's mind which we hope removing K/D will bring:
When noobs look at the K/D: that guy just killed me 10 times and I got him only once (KD: 0.1)
When K/D is removed: after so many attempts I finally got him! (kills: 1)

Nothing is expected. Years of study in IT tells me we must question everything, why is it there? Is it really good? Are we doing it just because others are doing the same?

You have considered recording K/Ds for specific targets which are more solid. This shows a lot of insights. However, you didn't consider the unbalanced skills of players. In traditional FPS games, players are matched by there performance to mitigate competitive frustration, this mechanism is absent in PS2. Sometimes it's highly experienced players picking complete noobs. We are talking about retaining players not how to prove who is good and who is bad.

Unless you're repeating my argument above that that you subconsciously are aware of your proficiency just based on the frequency of your death, even if the number is not made apparent, can you post a screenshot circling (or underlining, I'm not picky) which part of the kill screen you mean?

The kill screen gives the most up to date k:d possible.

I know it lists kills under session stats. When did it start listing counted deaths?

Personally I don't give a flying **** about K/D, I have zero idea what mine is and have never checked, its a meaningless stat, I would care just as much about a stat about how many times you have jumped, crouched, reloaded or looked down your sights, which is not at all.

It could vary wildly between what class you are playing, I've gone over an hour before as a engineer in the thick of combat without even pulling my weapon.

Having said that, I think they should keep it as there are many who that stat matters to, if you are like me and don't care and have never check, then you wouldn't care if that stat existed or not, but for those who think that stat has some bearing or enjoy measuring theirs against other, then let them, to each their own.

K/D is a standard "feature" of most modern, multiplayer FPS games. IF you choose not to have it in your FPS, you will be dinged for that choice by various people.

I am not saying it's a net bad idea to take out K/D for a particular game. That would depend on the pros, cons, game, situation, etc. I am just saying to remove K/D is to court criticism, disinterest, etc. I agree there are many player behavior benefits to having K/D gone, though there is also the cost of losing a major motivator that keeps many players logging in and playing.

Not to mention that many current players actually do want and like K/D.

Thanks.

While I did not post on the issue of segregating players in that post, I have done so many times in the past. You can search in Google by "zaspacer segregated", and you can find me bringing up that issue in various posts.

I am all for adding more content that self-segregates uneven players in-game. Things like PMBs already do this, by being too tough for a casual to take out, and too off Lattice for a casual zerg to navigate to.

You can add a stat filter so players can sort K/D with easy targets removed. I have already mentioned some of those. You can reduce the Certs/XP for killing trivial targets with farming tools.

I totally agree that K/D as a main stat in a non-player power (experience, skill, knowledge, unlocks, performance, etc.) level segregated game, will promote the mass farming of weak (new, low skill, lacking knowledge, under-pop, etc.) players. And that directly impacts player retention.

But we are talking about a game and company that are a shining poster child for very, very bad post-launch new player experience. And they have demonstrated time and again that they will make a concerted effort to throw players outside their pet demographic (high performing and organized players) to the wolves (wolves = high performing and organized players). And the game is FULL of issues that affect player retention, issues that have been supported or even specifically reinforced by Devs.

It's always 1. The most current k:d available. Updated on a life by life basis.

I fall into the group that doesn't care about KD/R. And now I'm also in the group that never has to worry about certs or XP ever again as well.

I play for fun, and fun for me isn't a measurable stat on some list. It's shelling people with Fractures from the top of the Crown. Or rushing that group holding the point down over the hill at TI Alloys over and over seeing if I can break their defense. Or chasing that one Vanguard away from the fight but ultimately dying to it. The things I do don't show up on stat lists, but I can see I'm having a positive effect on the battle for my team.

If people think their KD/r is important let them keep it. It's not hurting any thing. Every game has its KD ******, and the reality is they don't really affect my experience at all.

There's so many bigger issues the devs should be fixing. Let's keep them focused on that.

As a strictly support player .. I've learned to not even look @ my K/D I think SPM is far more important... Infils care about K/D because it's really the only count they get.. .. how many terminals can they hack while I have XP ticking off from ammo repairs healing, reviving and shield regen... . sure I get sniped 10 times an engagement.. but.. it's part of the job... A heavy isn't much good without ammo.. or a Max... LA need ammo for their rocket rifles.. focus on your jobs people.. they're all important.. we need snipers to keep peoples heads down.. vehicle terminals hacked.. LA to break up formations.. cause general havok.. and heavies and maxes to break up armor and infantry formations.. it's ALL important in the game... get a platoon that knows their jobs and does them... they are tough to beat...