[Suggestion] Archer is good versus MAX units but...

Discussion in 'Engineer' started by Ximaster, Oct 9, 2016.

  1. IroncladBomber

    Killing MAX Units, Shooting other Engineers off their turrets, Knocking Aircraft out of the sky, or bothering tanks. That is pretty much all it is for.
  2. cobaltlightning

    Hey, did I write that post somewhere else?
  3. TR5L4Y3R

    so i don´t mind the archer being not an AI weapon but still considering it´s chamber time and its x1.5 HSM

    i find they should buff the dmg by atleast one tier .. because there is no way you are in 15 meter range with this weapon and survive in direct combat .... especialy against a max ...
    so i say they should buff the dmg to about 425 max within 15m and 350 min till 125m .. so that it would requiere 3 chestshots or 2 headshots for a kill against any non nanoweave/shield infantry
    but still keep the 1 HS + 2 BS which then atleast would also be more viable against nanoweave/shields

    as for anti vehicle anti aircraft in default armor
    it should be like from range ( i don´t know the excat numbers)

    flash - 3 shots
    harasser - 9 to 11 shots
    esf - 6 shots
    valkyrie - 9 to 11shots

    and other vehicles/aircraft you should have to engage in a squad for a quick take down with about 4 or 5 archers

    sunderer - up to 20/15
    lightning - up to 25/15
    liberator - up to 20
    mbt - about 30/20
    galaxy - up to 30
  4. Sir Sovereign

    Honestly all the talk of weapons being "OP" in the hands of an engi for the simple fact that he can drop himself ammo is now moot. Every single class can now use an implant that refills their ammo every 30-120 seconds, making engineers the least effective at killing besides with turrets. Honestly both the engineers and the Light assaults now need a weapon that competes with rifles and LMGS. The fact that LMGs have low spread over time, have much higher bullet velocities than carbines, and do far more dps is kind of crazy in terms of balance.. it makes more sense because the barrel is longer, but both of the light classes need something.
  5. Maecy

    The archer needs a buff, imo. It does perform it's duty as a piece of long range anti-max weaponry, but with how little maxes there are around, it is almost useless. It merely pokes heavy armor, and has the longest chamber time of any bolt-action, so the damage against heavy armor is nearly useless. I would imagine that it would kind of be like the anti-vehicle turret's primary weapon counterpart (e.g. you need the extra mobility for anti-vehicle work, but not so much for infantry, use the infantry turret and the archer, if it's the other way around, use the anti-vehicle turret and a more conventional weapon), but less powerful due to the mobility one has with it, but not so much that it is near useless against heavy vehicles. So please buff the damage against armor. The infantry damage is fine, it's not supposed to be for infantry. As an antimaterial rifle, it should be able to threaten vehicles. So please buff the damage, or at least let the archer have some utility in that it increases the damage taken by vehicles hit (until repaired) by the thing, kind of like a debuff negative-resistance status.
  6. LordKrelas

    2 head shots = dead max.
    3 body shots = dead max.
    You can do this at sniper ranges, so the anti-material rifle designed & described to kill Maxes is completely on par with the role.

    Against infantry, this Anti-max weapon kills in 2 head shots, can damage any vehicle at sniper-range with no clear indicator of position at sniper-rifle velocity.
    Call that on par with a Scout rifle, or Semi-Auto sniper rifles for anti-infantry.
    Then recall it manages this against Max units as well: Aka Universal Sniper rifle if used properly.
    Against lighter Vehicles, it still hits pretty hard.

    Considering it is designed solely for use against Max units, and does deal damage to any target at sniper range unlike every other weapon in its class: and in AV weapon classes, it has the best range.

    It is a Sniper rifle, that can damage armor.
    You can threaten vehicles, just not with a hand-full of rounds from a sniper rifle at sniper-ranges with barely if any tracers to lead back.

    I've dueled MBTs, ESFs, Maxes, Snipers and other infantry at short range, long range, and at medium ranges with an Archer solo.
    It is the easiest weapon to land hits at vehicles with at a distance.

    If it reduced or increased damage taken by targets, the longest ranged AV weapon with barely a means to trace the highly mobile Engineer with literal infinite ammunition would make all vehicles have to constantly handle sniper fire.

    It is designed for anti-max work, not actual AV.
    To turn it into a dependable AV more than it already is, is to eclipse the purpose of the rifle with a new one.
    And it literally has a sniper rifle's range - Without the tell-tale tracer.

    It isn't meant to compete with the Tool slot's AV turret.
    It is a primary weapon, designed to help counteract enemy Max units.
    Be happy it also can detonate armor at sniper range, I know I am.
  7. Maecy

    25 shots to kill a stock sundie or approx. 30 to kill a lightning with a 1.5 second rechamber time, woo. so much detonation of armor at sniper range. More effective than a RL or even c4 fairies, much value for 1k certs and losing a primary weapon to defend yourself against infantry, 100% worth. Zero engineers have access to sundie for 35 seconds is very believable, right? Nope, nobody will ever think of changing equipment to engineer when respawning and repairing the sundie for free xp. Nobody at all...
    I should totally use archer, archer is very viable as a pure anti-max gun because there are plenty of maxes running around just waiting to be free kills, archer is better than explosives for killing maxes, much more versatile than UBGL and even tank mines, hell, even c4, can infinitely shoot at vehicles for damage, so amazing.
  8. Weylin

    Killing a 450 nanite MAX at sniper ranges in 2-3 shots is pretty ******* powerful, they're completely incapable of doing anything to you from that range unless they're crazy good at aiming those no-splash grenades
    • Up x 2
  9. LordKrelas

    Well, it's not an anti-tank or anti-armor weapon.
    It's designed to pierce heavy infantry armor not vehicle plate armor.

    It's not meant to compete with Rocket-launchers, which it out-ranges, and has better projectile velocity.
    In addition, has more ammunitions.
    It is designed to kill Maxes.

    C-4 requires you to touch the target.

    For a thousand certs, like any new rocket launcher, (and that for 2 C-4 per class), you get a Sniper rifle with no tracer, deals damage to any target it hits, can two-shot infantry in the head, and demolishes Max units at sniper rifle restricted range without trouble.

    If you expect a weapon designed to kill a Max, to be an anti-armor sniper rifle capable of destroying sunderers by yourself..
    You need to share whatever you have been smoking. As that is some strong **** right there.

    It's an Anti-max, per labeled, and isn't designed to take down enemy vehicles at any reasonable speed.
    Don't expect a beautiful weapon built to purpose, to become the best AV weapon just since people aren't swimming in Maxes.

    I take out ESFs in 3-4 hits with an Archer.
    You don't expect to kill a tank, or rather shouldn't - That's outside its entire focus.
    Sure it can damage heavy targets, however it ain't meant to take down such vehicles at sniper rifle range.
    There is a reason Rockets have slow velocity, high drop, and limited range
    - The Archer would be the best AV weapon of all infantry if it could compete with a ******* rocket-launcher.
    Why? As it has better range, more ammunition, no tracer, high velocity, and barely any bloody drop.

    Support weapon designed to destroy mechanized infantry suits, not a miniaturized Anti-tank cannon.
    If you want to kill a Sundy with it, be creative, or have allies, you aren't meant to be the Sniper god of Tank killing.
  10. OldMaster80

    You shouldn't care about your K/D at all. But the game does not highlight any stat than that, so I understand your frustration.

    I agree the Archer is a stupid weapon, and it fills a microscopic niche. It's basically for long range Max Sniping, which makes it a big crap.

    What is really annoying is they are balancing tank guns around versatility. Wrel said no player should feel at sever disadvantage because he/she chose a certain weapon.

    But why doesn't this logic apply also to the Archer? Because reality is if you play with that weapon you are at serious disadvantage.
  11. BrbImAFK

    I'm sorry..... were you expecting logic and consistency from DBG?! Seriously?!

    Come, now, OM80... you've been around long enough to know better! :p
  12. Ximinetto

  13. LordKrelas

    Well, the Archer is still quite effective.
    I did literally list the grand things you can kill with applying the weapon properly.

    It damages any target, easy kills Maxes, can snipe snipers, and deals nice damage to ESFs.

    But I am all for buffs for my favorite rifle.
    Worth every cert, wouldn't mind it being worth more.
  14. Ximinetto

    Its mine too,im Ximaster on console,and i already listed the things u can do with it.
  15. SixNineFour

    I have driven liberator crews away with this gun. It is funny watching them trying to figure out what the hell is shooting at them.
  16. NubCannon

    Just giving everyone a heads up, the Archer has a problem right now where the shots to kill a max significantly increase as the max is moving.

    I tested this on the test server a few days ago and the damage done by the archer on a stationary max with body shots was still around 1/3 health per shot, but dropped down to somewhere around 1/6th to 1/8th health per body shot if the max was strafing.

    This has been a problem since the release of the CAI.
  17. YellowJacketXV

    Problem is that the weapon has "squad concepts" in mind. If you have at least 5 people using them in a squad against vehicles they can be outright devastating if folk can aim. There's also the consideration that the Archer uses regular old ammunition.

    The best way to 'balance' the Archer is simple: Make it a Utility Slot that only replenishes when you visit a terminal. (like the Sentry drone). Also, reduce the magazine to a three shot magazine where the time between shots is greatly increased. The concept we are looking for is HIGH ALPHA vs LOW DPS. A rocket launcher has HIGH ALPHA but has only one shot thus incurring a rather large reload time. The principle should be the same with the archer. Once again though, the primary consideration is that if you get more than 3 people with this thing you can sit them in a ******** location and just potshot vehicles without threat of retaliation due to the range. I would also honestly vote for removing the splash damage but what do y'all think?

    In short:
    -Archer is no longer a primary weapon and therefore no longer replenishes with engineer ammo
    -Archer is a utility slot, forgoing the other tools (such as blockade or mana turrets)
    -Archer can no longer be resupplied with ammo from ammo kit
    -Archer damage from 400 to 500
    -Archer chamber time from 1.5 sec to 2 sec
    -No changes to AoE damage
    -Archer magazine size down to 3 from 5
    -Archer ammo pool total down to 18 from 30
    -Archer reload from 3/4.25 to 3.5/5.00
    -Reduce vehicle armors to AMR damage type by around 10% (15% if lucky)

    How's that?
  18. NubCannon

    Just thought i'd throw this out there, the archer does reduced damage to a moving max. I'm sure its not intentional but ive tested this and bodyshots on a strafing max, do about 1/2 the damage that they do if they are stationary. this has made killing maxes much harder as no max sits still after the first shot. which is especially frustrating. after that first headshot, landing a second headshot on a max is difficult and then the moving max can take several body shots depending on loadout. and a single engineer can out repair the bodyshots that take 1/2 damage. Ive found that now the only way to effectively kill maxes is to attack with more than one archer or as a solo individual wait until he is half or less than half health before attacking.
  19. Icehole1999

    I'm about to pick up the Archer. I'm not expecting killstreaks with it. Mostly assists I'm thinking. As an engineer you're out there to support your team, not to worry about how many kills you get. Damaging a MAX enough so that someone else can finish it off, or finishing off one already damaged is right in line with your role.

    Yes, a whole squad of Archer Engineers sucks. But so does a whole squad of any single weapon being used at its optimal range. I can't imagine what 6 guys with Cougars could do. Or Strikers or MCGs or God Saws or even default RLs.
  20. Jac70

    I would not recommend this weapon to anyone. In fact I think it is the worst primary in the game by a long margin. It's absolutely ******* useless at anything other than 1v1 against a MAX and even at that role there are much better options.

    I have managed to scrape this piece of **** to 610 kills and that is after months of using it as my main. I need one more sniper rifle Aurax for the directive sniper but I reckon I am gonna bin the Archer and just Aurax another bleedin sniper rifle because it would be much quicker to get 1160 kills with an actual weapon than another 500 kills with this ****** paint stripper.