Why does DBG allows NC's terrible low win rate?

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Humoreske, Oct 14, 2017.

  1. Lamat

    Read the bloody thread you're commenting on, you are just embarrassing yourself. It's been stated and restated for 12 pages over 200 posts and over 5000 views. You think you can just walk in and not read anything, then say there is no evidence, and want to be spoonfed that which you don't even want to know and won't accept anyways?

    Most of us play all 3 factions dude, go play NC and walk your talk.
    • Up x 7
  2. RockPlanetSide2

    Oh I read it, and its the same nonsense that's been posted forever.

    Your entire argument is that if the NC had a 143/750 starter weapon, the entire problem would be solved... that's not only dumb its insane. That kind of statement is embarrassing.

    And don't try to validate your arguments by stating how many other people agree with you in the forums.. that's honestly like asking a bunch of insane asylum patients to vote on the best pudding... just dumb. Also, you keep saying that I should try out the other factions, you have no idea what I play or what I don't play... your other dumb implied argument is that if I did use the SAW there is NO WAY I could come to any other determination other that to agree with you, instead of just come to the conclusion that you are bad and don't know how to use the gun.

    Stop.
  3. TooFewSecrets

    Really? How about:
    NC has the worst ESF.
    NC has the worst starting guns.
    NC weapons do less DPS, are harder to control, and are more punishing to miss.
    NC's uniforms make it impossible to not see them.
    NC special vehicle weapons are all useless shotguns.
    NC's MAX also has useless shotguns.
    NC's unique rocket launcher is useless.
    NC's MBT has the worst stats of the three.
    NC's leadership and skilled players left for the above reasons.

    Nobody in this thread argued that it was ONLY the SAW's fault. The SAW is just a symptom of a larger problem. You didn't read the thread, did you?

    Stop.
    • Up x 8
  4. Hajakizol

    If another faction has perceived easier to use equipment it is human nature to use that instead of possibly more difficult side. Even if NC weapons were exactly the same and it was labeled the ****** faction would you stay? Most would not again. If the equipment and or color scheme are contributing to the perceived and or tangible difficulty would it no be in the best interest of the game to address them? I think, yes. I don't see why some feel seriously threatened by balance discussions.. maybe the status quo is in their favor. Perhaps... Shotgun faction indeed.. in an open world game with huge spaces in between bases. What happened to all the Gauss tech? Railguns would work much better the hur dur we got shotguns.....
    • Up x 2
  5. Atorum

    Funny, very funny.
  6. Killer Medic


    Obviously either he didn't or is being intellectually dishonest by claiming something that's fantasy and not reality. Real world here: just got home and logged on...and TR, TR and more TR on continents...same **** different day...logging back off and playing something else tonight. To be honest, it's gotten ******* boring dealing with their zergs on Emerald and made it where getting wisdom teeth removed is more pleasurable. Yet, this guy is claiming nothing is wrong with NC...what a load of....well bovine excrement.
  7. Rydenan

    What if NC had a 143/750 LMG at all? Or any LMG that came close to the DPS/TTK of the 143/750 damage model?

    That would be nice.
    • Up x 1
  8. Demigan

    "nonsense".

    Heh.

    So... The NC is all lower skilled right? So how can they score equal with NS weapons (and weapons like the sniper rifles and shotguns that are the same across all factions)? In some cases even far superior? And then when you get to the NC weapons themselves most of them score lower than their VS/TR counterparts.
    "oh, but there's a few snowflake weapons in there that are superior to the VS/TR!".
    Well you might not have realized but that's already been debunked, at best they rival the VS/TR equivalents, and just because there are weapons that can rival those, doesn't mean they are used by everyone. And even if they were used by 100% of the NC Playerbase the NC would still be behind on the VS and TR. Why? Well logic is why. You should try it sometimes. If the NC has about ES 5 weapons that rival the TR/VS weapon counterparts while the VS/TR have a selection of 10 weapons that are either equal or superior to the NC ES counterparts, then the NC has a far smaller window of specialization and will lose more battles as they can't prepare for the right combat conditions as well as the VS/TR.

    And ofcourse there's that giant elephant in the room: Actual usage rates. The most used weapons are always the defaults, so if your faction has some bad defaults then your faction is going to do worse overall as the average player will have less of an impact. And even if you assume 50% of the players gravitate towards the best weapons the NC has to offer (which is a high estimate and as said before these weapons are equal to the VS/TR equivalents not superior) you still have 50% of the players that are using sub-par weapons and causing the faction to lose more battles, despite the proof that the NC isn't inferior in skill.
    And lastly, vehicles. The Vanguard MBT is vastly inferior to the Prowler and Magrider. I did the math in this thread for instance:
    And it proved that even with the Vanguard shield the Vanguard's only real impactful statistic, MBT kills, was vastly overestimated by just about everyone. "oh noes, the Iwin shield!", which basically came down to the "oh crap I'm about to die" shield.

    Read the rest of that thread as well, it's interesting and shows you the complete and utter garbage that the Vanguard has actually been all along.
    • Up x 1
  9. Lamat

    One thing we all have in common even if you disagree with this thread for some reason, is we all clearly love Planetside 2 enough to come to the forums and discuss the state of the game.

    Well if you love the game, you need to understand that NC players are quitting memberships and/or leaving completely, and maybe some kind of concession needs to be made to throw NC a bone and show these players they haven't been forgotten about.

    It is irrefutable that the NC is statistically losing the most and has since launch, now you can believe whatever reasons you want, but that can't continue without additional player attrition that this game cannot sustain and survive. If you love the game and want to keep playing it, we need to find common ground in making NC fun to play.

    I've previously suggested starting with something simple like the color scheme, tone done the bright yellow and make NC infantry models look cooler, this would have minimal game impact but it's relatively easy for devs to change. Then just observe NC population and victory statistics, only making small subtle changes over time until the factions are more in line.

    If you really believe it's just the leadership and bad players bringing NC down, despite the evidence, then you should for the love of Planetside2 at least support the color scheme and model change for NC, a change with minimal actual game impact that can help keep and attract more players for NC:

    • Up x 4
  10. RockPlanetSide2

    In most fights, at this point in the game with the current player base, ESFs, which LMG you are using, Which Max you are using, ES weapons being only shotguns, those factors are not, 100% not (in the macro sense), attributing to the NCs bad win rate. I could understand it if that was maybe a 5% loss, but arguing that they lose EVERY SINGLE TIME BY A HUGE MARGIN, because the Reaver has a Shotgun on it, is just stupid.

    Now if you are arguing that all the good players/organized teams left the NC and went to TR or VS because the guns are better, that is different; because; then I go back to my argument that all the NC has left are bad players and bad leadership. Regardless if the NC just has bad leadership in general, or just has bad leadership because all the cream left and all we have now is the crap is irrelevant... NC currently has bad leadership and/or players that don't care about winning, is a fact.

    A group of NC Shotgun maxes is going to take a point just as easily as any other faction is going to with a Push... and it will get C4's just as easily as well. And inside a building I will take 2x Hacksaws over any other weapon in the game on my max. You want to run in with your Nebulas and see what happens point blank? Be my guest.

    And again, if you are arguing that the Empire Specific weapons are not fun and keeping good players away from the NC... again back to my argument that who uses what guns is irrelevant... what is relevant is that the NC have low skill / no leadership / no desire to win anymore.


    You can keep saying that I'm basing my arguments with out looking at the evidence (that is the argument of a child - "duuuurh you can't possibly disagree with me, we are looking at the same thing!..duuuuuh!), I just say you are misinterpreting the evidence and making bad arguments and/or formulating unrealistic conclusions about what is actually going on in game.

    To wrap up. If you are saying that bad weapons / not fun weapons keep good players or players that have good leadership skills away from the NC, I agree. If you are saying that bad weapons are attributing to the NC loss rate directly because of their stats versus other weapons in the game, that is just flat out ****ing stupidity (and you are in full clinical denial about yourself and the NC in general).

    *****************

    Aesthetic wise. Looks like we are all in agreement. Sony/DBG's decision to put a shotgun on every single thing in the game is just... flat out... hillbilly STUPID. It is lazy, and quite frankly, insulting design. And, yes, I also agree that wearing 1990's Cargo Khaki pants is also dumb. Putting a second shotgun on the Brawler is a good example, somebody at DBG just thought that was the zenith of irony and comedy... in reality it was just being fat and lazy.
  11. Demigan

    What you say is sheer stupidity.

    Prove for instance that the NC leadership is worse than the others. I thouroughly debunked that one already so dont come with the idiotic messages like "they defend only the biolab and leave the rest to be captured!" even though the other factions do the same and the only reason they do stay and defend is because the opposition is using an even larger force to try and break them, meaning the defenders are actually sapping more manpower from the opposing factions.

    The reason why NC loses is because the bad weapons work cumulative. 1 weapon slightly worse, no problem the rest will compensate.
    But lionshare of the rest is also using inferior weapons. The NC scores better with Lightning weapons than the other two but according to noobs like you the only reason the Vanguard is bad is because its drivers suck. The Vanguard has been bottom of the barrel since launch as well, accounting again for a lack of ways to compensate.
    Having 300 players on one faction per continent and 200 of them using inferior weapons, even if theyare only slightly inferior? Yeah thats going to have a HUGE impact on the amount of wins.

    Then theres the question of what you are going to do in case your empire is going to be warpgated. Do you try to defend with an inferior arsenal and a high chance of failing anyway because your allies wont be using the "good" NC ES weapons and you have an inferior choice in versatility in the "good" weapons anyway, or do you find a fight where your inferior weapons are compensated by the terrain and layout and have a fun engagement?
    You do the latter. Not because thr NC doesnt like to win continents and alerts, but because the NC simply has little chance of winning anyway.
    • Up x 4
  12. Xada


    Yeah, I'll agree with that one and only that one. NC MAX is supposed to be the undisputed master of CQC situations and it does this. The Aegis is probably the biggest let down of the NC MAX. I can see the intention of it being the go to for breaching and sieging bases that are turtled heavily *not so subtle cough* biolabs, but really it just turns them into even easier C-4 bait, which I gotta hand it to the developers who created it back in the day, way to go, you made a defensive ability... more likely to get you killed. There are also a slew of other issues... which were pointed out 4 years ago...



    EDIT: I'm just going to throw this out there, I know ZOE is a shell of it formerly was and lockdown is pretty much the same as it was 4 years ago, so borderline useless (i think i've seen one lockdown max since coming back to the game). To be honest, all the MAX abilities could probably be buffed... and like the MBT abilities, probably should be baseline lol (seriously, does any MBT run anything other than their ES ability?)
    • Up x 2
  13. RockPlanetSide2


    NC swapping more troops for other faction troops only proves that the NC players not as good as their opponents (lack of skill) or that the strategy being used in any given fight is not as good as their opponents (lack of leadership). You say "you already debunked it", as if you were Moses coming down with some stone tablets... you just said some stupid **** and then said it was proof. You can't argue like that in the real world, having a megaphone and being irritated is not how you win a debate.

    Again, your arguments are all 100% saying that because the NC are losing its because the weapons are bad... you have yet to prove that is the actual case and its not just the players being bad or the leadership being bad... I'm still waiting for any kind of actual facts and not just your opinion that the "Vanguard is just unplayable!".

    We have all seen the NC take bases/defend bases against even population when that particular fight is being led by one of the few remaining competent NC commanders leading an organized crew... my argument is that there are just fewer of those good NC leaders left, and most fights are being lost by NC commanders that make bad decisions or are in charge of a platoon that just has bad players. Again you have yet to prove that as wrong. This argument alone is pretty much a nail in your coffin.

    I can clearly tell that you do not listen to or read the command chat, ever. If you are involved in actual troop movements you will note RIGHT AWAY that there is far more discord with the NC Macro Strategy than with the other factions. I do suggest that you research that before posting further. Yes, the other factions have rogues that don't listen, but the NC is just a bickering pile of turd all of the time and the NC have a lot more players in unorganized squads as well that are not doing anything, but blind zerging.
  14. Killer Medic

    Don't worry folks, Rock is a ******* genius and knows *everything* there is to know about everything. Typical sexual intellectual that one runs into today.

    Once again, your argument is specious and intellectually dishonest. You forget that I've been on all three factions; all of them argue, with TR less because AoD and Recursion rule it with an iron fist and there's no room for disagreement or new ideas. What they think/want goes and that's it. That, my friend, is also a form is discord whether you want to agree or not.

    Personally, I think you're one that loves the status quo because you're benefiting from it due to the overpop on the faction you play. That's why you'll never admit anything is wrong-even when so full of ******** that the pile is taller than you are.

    Obviously, there's something wrong when I can count on one hand the number of alerts that NC has won since CAI. Do I need to post screenshot after screenshot of each night to prove that you're wrong? If it takes that, than I'll spam the thread with them. Furthermore, just because *you* are getting the advantages of the new system doesn't mean squat. This is quickly turning into a 2 faction game-and I know how you and others will act then.

    You'll sit there and ***** about how there's no one to play but each other and how boring it is. Then, you'll stop logging in as much because "Daybreak won't fix the problem," along with the other side. Soon game is dead and then shut down. Next, go to new game and then wash, rinse and repeat.

    Rock, you're losing this argument and are too arrogant to realize it. Maybe it's time to cut the losses and just pipe down.
    • Up x 2
  15. RockPlanetSide2


    Just like the last 5 people, you said nothing. You just stated some opinions and then concluded you were right.

    What screen shots do you think are going to prove anything.

    I'm still waiting for real reasons that the NC can't win. So far the only evidence is that there is less NC leadership to deal with all battles at once and more bad players. Pretty sure a unified front is not a form of discord... any military is not a bunch of fools doing whatever the want (which is exactly why the NC are losing and not because of issues with guns) - I really can't even believe you said that it is so stupid.

    Prove that the NC leadership is not bad or lacking in overall size and effectiveness, once you can prove that we can move on to people can't win alerts because the Mag-Shot is not as good as a pistol as the Beamer, or whatever else nonsense there is to wade though.
  16. stalkish

    LOL @ requiring 'proof' but providing non for your own opinions.
    • Up x 2
  17. Lamat



    But then why are you arguing? The bottom line is we agree that NC weapons need to be tweaked to be more fun and less frustrating. The reason why doesn't really matter either way.
  18. FateJH

    Old Connery grapevine was that the main pushers of the Outfit were going to take a break from PlanetSide with another game. I don't recall which the popular rumored game offhand. A more tongue in cheek one was that they finally got tired of being the only good NC on Connery. In any event, that decision caused about a week of non-Reucrsion, then a slight resurgence of a sub-Recursion. Then Emerald Recursion happened much later, maybe a few months.

    Your reasoning really doesn't shift the choices from being between either poor equipment, or terrible allies and feeble leaders. Both are still quite valid in a sense. Either one could still be true as both lead to a consistent play experience that rots away the enjoyment of the user.
    • Up x 1
  19. RockPlanetSide2

    That was to make it clear that the NC are not losing because of the weapons being bad, but because the player base is not as good as the other factions right now. So, yes, if we are all in agreement with that. Just change the Gauss Saw into a 143/750 and the problem is fixed I guess?
  20. Demigan

    Let's sprinkle a little thing we call "logic" over this statement.

    If NC has more troops move to other factions because the NC is lower skilled, then the opposing forces now have lower skill players in their ranks and would experience the same problem.
    They don't have the same problem.
    Additionally, if the NC swaps more troops to other factions because the NC lacks skill, then you have to ask yourself why they swap more troops to the other factions. Could it be... Because the arsenal is better at the VS and TR? It has to be, otherwise you would see a similar amount of players go to the NC.

    Additionally, there's posts like these:
    Which prove that the NC isn't lacking skill. With the same weapons the NC is on equal footing to the TR and VS. Besides that it would be a ludicrous idea that magically all low-skill players would join the NC, across all servers despite different ethnic and cultural backgrounds. So that's why I'm "doing the moses": I have given proof, you on the other hand... Where's yours? You've done nothing but say "I disagree" and come up with idiotic idea's like the one above that either prove that the NC arsenal actually is lacking or have repercussions that simply aren't visible in the game, like the fact that if NC was lacking skill and joining the other factions because of it that the other factions would suffer from it.

    And this, ladies and gentlemen, is a pure form of a hypocrite. Where's your proof? You try to sweep me aside claiming I'm doing the equivalent of a megaphone, yet here you are throwing fat and enlarged texts in different colors with nonsensical statements in them that contradict eachother or don't even measure up to what you can see happening in the game. Why don't you actually come with proof? And saying "blablabla (because lack of skill!)" does not consist out of proof.

    I do not have to prove this is the actual case, it has been done a million and one times already (and it has already been done in this thread as well if you cared to look). In the meantime you claim that the NC is lacking skill, but where's the proof? NS weapon statistics prove you wrong, and in-game leadership proves you wrong.

    Your argument is that there are fewer leaders in the NC. But where's your actual proof? Ah yes, your subjective idea of "I've seen it in the chats!". Well here's a newsflash: I do join the leadership channels, and guess what, the NC isn't exactly a dummy corporation you try to pass it off as. Besides that we've had incredibly great leaders on the NC... Yet it was never enough was it? The NC has been behind since day 1 across all servers, despite different ethnicities and cultures attracting different people to different factions across the world. So you are saying that by a magic coincidence the NC has had less leaders and less skill across all servers for years now? You might as well find out that the left pinkie of every NC player is 10% shorter than those of the VS and TR. It makes no sense and it's statistically an almost impossibility. It's more likely someone wins the Lottery 50 times in a row.
    • Up x 5