When is the Critical Mass update going live? Ivve been waiting for this update for atleast 6 months now. I hope its good and doesn't turn the game into something like NGE did for star wars galaxies. Since I saw a crapload of changes to the game in update notes. But hopefully for the better and not the worse. Anyway still looking forward to it.
As far as I know, Critical Mass was announced just a month ago. You are probably referring to Combined Arms Initiative. It isn't complete. And even when it will get released, there will be a lot of complains... mostly from players, that enjoy vehicle gameplay.
I read about combine arms but i dont understand much cus my english is limited. What does that update???
Oversimplified version: - Vehicles: cannons/weapons nerfed; armor changed - Launchers: damage nerfed; ammo count, reload speed buffed - Vanguard shield changed - Prowler reload speed nerfed - Magrider reload speed buffed
Exactly 4 months and 7 days before they announce that it was a mistake and have to spend more time undoing the changes that this patch is undoing to the prior changes.
So damage is nerfed,the ammo upgraded (i understand that,maybe 1 rocket more?) and more reload speed...if i find difficult to kill a prowler with my annihilator,now i will find more. I suppose that damage is nerfed but the armor of the tanks too,isnt it?
IMO, these patchnote are more about math than english. if you copy-paste the patchnote into a traductor, I'm sure you'll be able to read it easily. Patchnote simplified version : ground vehicle vehicle primary weapon (tank cannon) nerfed against flak armor infantry, effective range nerfed to 200m AV vehicle secondary weapon (halberd, vulcan, etc) nerfed against infantry, even non-flak armor AI vehicle secondary weapon (PPA, marader, etc) can now damage heavy armor tank are more resistant, anti-C4 option added in defense slot infantry rocket launcher reload speed buffed, lock on range nerfed to 200m (ground) / 350m (air), double the ammo in reserve Infantry get xp for damaging ground vehicle Air liberator tankbuster nerfed against infantry and air, dalton nerfed against ESF, liberator is more resistant against ground valkyrie buffed but only one engineer can repair from the seat ESF buffed against air, nerfed against infantry
Hoooooold on, thats some gross misinformation right there ready for getting people riled up. Halkesh has much better info: Rather than tank weapons being straight up nerfed, their damage has been adapted to the new vehicle armor ratings. They have the same hits to kill as before. Range of all tank weapons was changed to create better up-close gameplay. HEAT and HE have gotten pretty damn good buffs. HE and HEAT have similar DPS over time as AP rounds now, but the reload speed and projectile velocoty make them more unique than they were before. AOE damage of all tank weapons has a lower falloff for more consistent damage whenever you AOE hit someone. Infantry flak armor is build to be more useful against tanks and explosives in general, a full flak infantry can survive a bodyshot. This makes it more competitive vs nanoweave. These changes werent a kick in the face for vehicles. Their aim is to make non-AV loadouts just as useful as the current AV loadouts. But as long as AV can OHK infantry and AI cant damage tanks there's little reason to pick them. Solutions above: allow AI weapons to damage tanks Shorten overall tank range so AI weapons can compete. Reduce the amount lf OHK's that AV is capable off so AI has more reason to be used. Add new ways for HE and HEAT to be used. For example, HEAT has a faster reload but is still capable of OHK's, HE still has the better AOE, AP has the highest velocity and thus best range and chance to hit. Theres no giant vehicle nerf comming, in fact by making AI loadouts more useful infantry is going to be crushed when the CAI update hits live.
The guy asked for easy-to-understand version, because of language barriers - I've provided with it. And there is no misinformation there, because tanks don't just fight other tanks. Damage against harrasers is worse: it nearly dies after 2 vanguard AP shots and gets on fire on live, sneeze at it's direction and it dies. it doesn't even sets on fire on PTS after 2 same shots. Damage against libs is worse as well: 2 shots from the same Titan 150 AP kills the lib on live. On PTS it sets on fire, but lives. Overshielded heavy can tank direct main cannon AP and HEAT shot. Because of that and because of relatively equal AV capabilities, HE cannons will be very popular, which won't make the game fun to non-flak infantry as well. And don't even get me started on secondary guns. Halberd doesn't kill infantry with direct shot, enforcer doesn't kill infantry with 2 direct shots, Canister (dedicated AI weapon) is a shadow of it's live server version, but does damage to vehicles (yay!?). And my personal favourite: Phoenix. It OHKs infiltrator, but doesn't OHK a flash. And now requires 3 instead of 2 people with it to punish camping stationary harraser. Frankly, Phoenix (nearly) always was good at the role it wasn't designed for: it was good recon device when Marker implant was still a thing. Now it's the best anti-infilrtator "sniper rifle".
He asked for the easy-to-understand version, not the write-down-facts-in-such-a-way-that-everyone-will-willingly-or-unwillingly-misunderstand-them. If you just say "Tank weapons have been nerfed", then people assume that tank weapons have gotten the bad end of the stick. But that's not true, there are a few specific units, namely Liberators and Harassers, that have gotten a buff against tank weapons. In the meantime ESF have gotten a nerf as now HE and HEAT weapons will OHK them regardless. So tank weapons haven't been nerfed, specific units have been buffed, especially when taking into consideration that some of these changes were unintentional and will be adressed in due course, such as the fact that Halberds required about 3 direct hits or something to kill an HA during the first pass of the CAI updates on the PTS or that tank-mounted AI guns killed tanks faster. Besides that, aircraft still need to have a good pass, which has also been hinted at. Therefore, you are willfully spreading misinformation by deliberately presenting the "truth" in such a way everyone will misunderstand.
Isn't that true? Especially about secondary guns. I should've probably mention, that HEAT and HE got some buffs here and there, but majority of tank weapons are outright nerfed. As far as I remember, HEAT cannon (at least on vanguard) OHK ESFs on live servers as well. HE can't OHK them on live, but on PTS it has less projectile velocity, so it will be harder for them to actually hit. Completely aware of that and talked about it in my previous post. I provided him with facts. How you understand that is up to you. Don't speak for...
The way you presented it? No it's not true. Weapons have been repurposed, for example almost 50% of those secondary weapons can now finally damage tanks, making their value in combat ever so much higher than before as tanks are a far bigger threat and the lack of tank damage was the biggest reason they never saw any real action. Add the HE and HEAT canon upgrades, and more weapons have received buffs than nerfs. So if anything you should be saying "tank weapons have been buffed". But that's not the way you went, you only focused on the negative, and then represented it as if everything on a tank was nerfed and in a bad way too. So again, no it's not true. You deliberately misrepresented the facts, and in fact you made up some as well by disregarding the positive things that are happening to tank weapons. The Vanguard HEAT is the only HEAT canon that can currently do that. But thing is that the Lightning versions can now do it as well, even the HE and HEAT versions. Only the viper and Skyguard can't. I just re-read all your posts in this thread, you make no mention of it. You provided him with false facts based on your misinterpretation of them. That's not because "it's up to you how you understand it", but because you fail to understand it outright.
When I Pull a tank with AI weapons on it, I want them no do just that - clear infantry. Have you participated in previous CAI and CM playtest? I did. Canister could damage tanks, but was dreadful at killing infantry. Same with "all-rounder" halberd. Enforcer is a joke as well. My exact words were: Now check cannon stats again and tell me that, besides HE and HEAT versions of main cannons, they aren't nerfed. You are really stubborn person, aren't you. I've auraxed vanguard on live servers and tried it on PTS with my friend (he is my gunner) several times. That was a disappointing experience. You don't have to choose loadout, based on situation, because HE outclasses everything, and gunner's weapons are underwhelming.
No, you don't want them to do "just that". Well you might, but you must be "very very special". The entire reason why AV is used 90% of the time on vehicles and AI is left in the dirt, is simply because AV can be used against vehicles and infantry effectively right now. Besides ofcourse that infantry pose barely a threat to vehicles so there's little reason to pick AI over AV. But with the change, AI weapons can actually damage tanks and be useful in that area. The fact that you then slave over a single weapon that got nerfed to prevent it's AV power to be OP and is still being worked on as evidenced by the addition of explosive pellets to make up for the loss of direct damage and put the Canister's AI capabilities higher again, is ofcourse a giant neon warning sign that you'll never be satisfied with anything and will try to prove anything to be a nerf to vehicles. Exactly, and you left nothing to the imagination when it came to the tanks weapons themselves. The way you presented it, it looked like everything you named was set in stone and the things that might get worked on had nothing to do with tanks anymore. So yes, you lied through your teeth to twist the truth far enough and make everyone believe exactly what the CAI update isn't going to do. They aren't nerfed. Imagine if we multiplied all damage and health of all weapons by 10. Effectively for the gameplay, nothing changes. You might deal 10 times more damage but since the target has 10 times more health you need the same amount of shots to kill. Taking your method of analysing this change, you would say "everything's been buffed! Look at those values! 10 times more damage! 10 times more health!". The fact that nothing changed for the game completely eludes you. The only reason the damage values were changed, was so that players had an easier understanding of how much damage they would do. They could have done things differently: Leave the tank damage values the same, but still change the Flak armor resistances and add an extra resistance to Heavies when their shield is active. Tank weapons wouldn't have been "nerfed", but in effect you would have reached the same status-quo as on the PTS. And that's what you fail to understand: The value change wasn't to nerf tanks and the devs have changed a fu ckton of data to keep it almost completely the same: You still require the same amount of hits to kill for almost every target in the game, and as shown in this completely iterative process they are still handling and changing it to also get those few outliers that have escaped with a different shots-to-kill. The changes such as flak armor changes were intentional and would have happened regardless of the value change or not. Yes, I am stubborn when it comes to the truth. And I've fought a lot on a Vanguard as well, and the truth is ofcourse that the Vanguard is getting shafted with the shield change. Also you are a dumb inexperienced tanker if you can't figure out why the HEAT and AP guns would still be useful, especially with the higher fire rate of the HEAT gun giving it more opportunities to OHK infantry and reducing the punishment for misses.
Currently, HE can damage tanks. it's not very effective at that but still. The main reason you pull HE tank is clear/reduce that infantry swarm in area/choke points etc. If you give HE the same AV potential, then it will be prefered more, than AP. Now you've switched to insults. I thought you are better than that. So when AV is good at AV and AI - it is bad. But when AI is good at AI and AV - it is good. Right? Now this is misinformation. A single infantryman sure poses a little threat, but you don't use AI against a single infantry unit. In a swarm, they pose a big threat not only for you, but for an entire base. And THAT's exact situation, when you use AI. With these changes the vast majority of tanks will be equiped with HE cannons (because why not? you can fight tanks with it now!!!!), and that single/small squads of infantry will have less chances of surviving. And imagine the amount of anchored HE prowlers, that this update will bring to us. But let's stop talking that's going to be good or bad to the game for now. After all, we are talking about my "gross misinformation" here, aren't we? The guy asked about the changes on PTS in regard of CAI, I've listed oversimplified version of it. Current version. I'm no oracle to tell the exact stats of everything when CAI hits live servers. That's why I've told, that it isn't complete yet in my previous post. Why we don't change secondary guns and AP/HE versions of main cannons? That would be satisfying. HEAT change is good though, it finally gives some quirks to them. Your perseption is decieving you. I 've said nothing about it being "set in stone". So I've lied by saying the truth? Not in a positive way, but still the truth. That's some high quality logic here. I know how it works. All I'm trying to say is that these weapons were nerfed in general. Not in any particular situation, but overall (namely against infantry, harassers etc.). At least try to understand what a person is/was trying to tell you, before blaiming in deception. Now that's where I can agree with you. That would make heavies more tanky against... tanks, without "buffing" entire infantry personnel. Completely fine with flak armor changes, if all tank weapons would be unchanged. That would make any person more likely to survive vehicle shots, if that said infantry chooses to specialize in that area. But with all that HE spam that can (and probably will) happen if CAI goes live as-is, you'll likely be forced to use flak armor. It could be OK, if shield was toggleable... and Anchormode was nerfed to oblivion, but that's personal. Insults again... Oh, well. HEAT and AP won't be completely useless, neither is live server version of HE. But they will be outclassed/-shined by HE simply because HE can kill everything now. HEAT could have some use in a small fights, AP would likely almost cease to exist simply because "why bother".
You should both stop that argument. It's impossible to give every details in a oversimplifed version. Most of what he said was useful information, the only con is he also give his point of view in the simplified version. You don't agree with his point of view but there is no need to go that far. Now, about HESH / AP status : IMO, HESH get a good buff but if you know you'll mainly face vehicle, you'll still prefer AP. Why ? Because if AP and HE deal the same damage, you have more chance to hit your target with AP : ~ +20% velocity can make enough difference to hit that target that try to dodge your shots. The only advantage HE have over AP is it have more splash damage while retaining the same AV capability within 150 meter range. Don't forget AP now have reliable splash damage (500@1m - 50@3m) so PTS version is arguably better at AI than live version. @TheSunlikeOne : I can't find the anchor mode change, what changed ?
There is none. Maybe my phrasing wasn't clear, but I meant that new vanguard shield would be ok if it would be toggleable and if anchormode would be nerfed as well. Sorry for the confusion.
********. HE is less effective, but it's not weak by any margin. I'm so good that I understand what an insult can mean. When someone is insulting enough to blatantly disregard what I'm saying and even lie through their teeth to try and get what they want, I'm entitled to use insults to show what I feel when you do stuff like that. In fact my insults are far less terrible than what you are doing. Aaand ofcourse you would misinterpret things! How could it be any different. If AV is solely good at AV and nothing else, then AV would be used less. Hell you are already going off on a tantrum about the Halberd, a definite AV weapon, losing it's AI firepower. You've barely even touched the fact that they are trying to make the AV secondaries less defining for MBT's in AV combat, nope you've specifically been talking about it's AI capabilities. That's because you know very well with your gut that the only reason AV is good, is because it can multi-role into AI as well. And that's all I'm saying: The only way AV and AI are good, is if they can be multi-role. AI should focus on AI, but shouldn't be useless at AV because, as we can see right now, it won't be used much otherwise. The same for AV: If it can't do AV+AI very well, people will prefer to leave it behind and pick something else. "A little threat", what do you think the "barely a threat" means in my sentence? Yes, a swarm. You need a ******* complete swarm of infantry before they pose any threat at all. Go to any base, and infantry will almost undoubtedly outnumber the vehicles, yet the vehicles, without AI weapons!, will completely obliterate most of the infantry anyway. And you need a freaking Zerg and a wonderful farmspot before people even consider putting AI weapons on their tanks. Except ofcourse that the HE gun has a slower velocity and heavier drop. AP has a higher velocity and less drop allowing for easier acquisition and kills, and HEAT has that nice faster reload and still a plenty big AOE to deal with infantry and has a lower punishment for misses. There's in fact already people who've argued that HE and AP will be the useless one's after the update and HEAT is the only gun for them afterwards. Even if HE would be the mainstay gun from now on... What would you care? You would get the biggest freaking buff you could ever want! Not only do you get to shoot vehicles like before, you get to kill infantry even harder with your new splash damage! Compare that to the current "AP or go home" scenario, it's not much different only you got more AI firepower to boot! And here you are, complaining that everything's been nerfed? What the actual ****? yes we are. No, you've listed the twisted lies by representing a value change intended to end up with no gameplay change as if it were an actual nerf to the vehicle gameplay, which isn't true. And what kind of changes would you want? Give AP extra velocity and HE more AOE? How about we reduce the velocity to 1m/s but remove drop? How about we let it fire clown-cars that honk twice to discourage your enemies? Saying "I would be satisfied with changes" isn't just vague, it means nothing in this context as it could mean anything. You say it "as if it was set in stone". That's why I used the wording "you represented it like it was set in stone". You start with "this is an oversimplified version of the changes:" and then blast away with untruths like "tank canons have been nerfed". The closer you get to a hot object like a stove the hotter it gets. That's in general a truth. The closer you get to the sun the hotter it gets, that's a trickier truth, but on the surface it looks correct. Then you come to the conclusion: Climbing is now discouraged because of the heat, and that's the one you present to everyone. You take one fact, then come up with a "fact" that is actually not true, because the higher you climb the colder it gets because of a million-and-one reasons that aren't taken into the consideration. Oversimplifying made your fact a lie. No, they weren't nerfed in general. That's the entire point! They were nerfed in specific area's, and most of those not even directly since they were simply buffs to other things, rather than nerfs to the tank weapons, because that damage change on those weapons you see were just a value change, which were balanced by the value changes on the armor ratings to keep the actual gameplay you expect the same. Flak armor was buffed in various ways, now tank weapons can't OHK infantry wearing the maxed out version by hitting them in the chest (in some cases they still can with headshots, they are working on that now). That's exactly what happened, they just coincided it with a value change so that it would be easier for players to understand how much damage each weapon would deal against a tank or infantry. And that value change is what you are getting worked up on about. So... What's the problem again? You are saying vehicle weapons were nerfed, but they are going to completely annihilate infantry anyway? Why are you putting vehicles on the "oh noes these poor babies are getting nerfed" shelf when you are actively saying they are still going to beat infantry to a pulp? (which they will anyway because that's what they've always done). The Vanguard basic chassis is vastly inferior compared to the Prowler and Magrider. Both the Prowler and Magrider have values that make them superior in 1v1 and large-scale warfare, while the Vanguards only real advantage is his shield. Since that shield is getting a kicking, bye bye Vanguards. Although I hope that people will finally, after all these years, finally understand that when these changes go live and they find the Vanguard a pushover. The Vanguard needs some inherent advantages. Currently it has basically "has armor, has small front". Higher alpha damage doesn't matter when you are having a long-term DPS battle. In fact high alpha damage is a liability as misses are punished more. Compare that to the Prowler, which is more maneuverable and out-DPS's anything even vanilla, and the Magrider which can strafe (a single miss because of strafing will overpower the armor rating, and since people aren't godlike at aiming you can dodge well within 100m), and the Magrider has more stability when moving and shooting, and they can make use of cover better because they aren't bound by their chassis facing to move in a direction, and better climbing capabilities. This means both the Prowler and Magrider have distinct advantages that heavily weigh in when more and more MBT's come to the field, but the Vanguards don't have that. They have their uses, figure them out.
