Make Magrider worth it

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Tattoon, Jul 14, 2017.

  1. Demigan

    You know what's a cute story? "Magriders are terrible and I'm a good Magrider player". The sentence "Magriders are terrible" is only uttered by people who do not know how to use it. You've already had comments of the same caliber from other people and for a reason: It's true.

    Assuming that the battles happen only in your dreams and not in PS2. Because in your dreams, the ScatMAX happens to always be within the 10 to 15m distance it needs to be to have any effect at all other then tickle, and the VS MAX can only shoot at long-range targets that have plenty of time to run away.

    But in PS2 the NC MAX will usually be useless, hence it's confined to things like Biolabs and doorways to make sure it won't be outranged and killed by some small-arms spamming player that comes along. In the meantime the VS MAX can be effective in CQC and has at least 4x the lethal range of a ScatMAX in which it can kill quickly. And if that takes you half a magazine, then you are either at too long a range or you can't aim for crap. The NC MAX shooting two shots from both canons has lost more % of it's magazine then the VS MAX after killing a dude.

    The strongest faction... NC? "Again"? You just like to spout random crap without backing it up, right? What I've told you is based on more then experience, it's also based on data from sites and experiments to prove which weapon is more effective.
    The NC have been, ever since the game was launched, the faction with the least alert victories on all servers, with every now and then a short hiatus where they might rank second or first for a short time. If you have some secret knowledge that I don't know off, please tell me and prove to me that what you say is true. But the NC have never been the "strongest faction" from any data that I've ever seen.

    Also this is exactly the inferiority complex I was talking about. It wasn't just the Orion that was nerfed, it was all weapons of the same class regardless of it being on the TR, NC or VS. The fact that it contained the VS starting weapon was only because the VS had been lucky enough to start with a jack-of-all-trades weapon since the game's launch. Now the VS are on more equal footing with the NC and TR as the weapons have a more defined niche they are good at, which was the intended balance from the start.
    It's like complaining about having a 10 resource costing mini-nuke nerfed so that it's equal to the weapons of the other two factions, and stating your own faction is now inferior because your weapons have been put in their correct balance again.
    • Up x 1
  2. Chubzdoomer

    As others have already said... the Vanguard is a lame tank. You do NOT want to trade the glorious Magrider for it, believe me!

    At least with the Magrider you have outstanding mobility and the ability to climb and do other cool things with the Magburner. All the Vanguard gets is its immensely overrated shield which lasts no time at all and takes FOR-EVER to recharge (a full minute at max level, which in the heat of battle is an eternity). As soon as the shield is gone, you're nothing more than a big, slow, easy-to-hit target with mediocre DPS.
    • Up x 2
  3. Tattoon

    We both know its all situational. And yes ur story was very cute. Im not the best Magdriver but i know what i can fight, and not fight. I bet you didnt play PS1? then you didnt know what they got the Mag from. What it used to be good at. It was great to stay ontop of water (Hoovering) at long distances without any rocks or **** to bump into. And you could keep going for ages, Strafing and dodging shots from other tanks. Here in PS2 they removed water...

    You have alot of good points. And i guess its different on US servers then EU. On EU NC and TR are the dominant. I dont know what it looks like on US. And i know know if they are different Patch-wise.
  4. stalkish

    Well the tank game has changed since the changes to speed and manoeuvring, imo on the mag feels a little sluggish now, slow to react.
    That's not to say it's weak, but it's niche has been eroded a bit, many times recently I've said to myself 'man this terrain used to be mag only' the tracked vehicles no longer slide horribly on a slope and have increased gravity or something not sure exactly what, meaning they handle better.
    The mag should have been given a similar adjustment, to keep it correctly above the others in terms of ease of access to terrain.
    I definitely feel slightly less troubled by mags these days, maybe it's just me but I have more success fighting vs vehicles than tr these days, the opposite to before the change.
    • Up x 2
  5. DrostenVS

    AV weapons for VS MAX are really good, but AI is kind of middle of the road. Dual Nebula's can usually defeat a TR MAX with chainguns at close range, but will die in seconds to an NC ScatMax. You can combine two different AI weapons (Cosmos/Blueshift) and have near constant suppressive fire as well (without extended mags, one arm will always be firing while the other is reloading, but with extended mags there will be about a second pause after a few clips).

    On another note, after playing both VS and TR, I'd say TR appears to be the most favorable target for the two other empires. On VS, they didn't enjoy fighting NC and I've seen conversations where both NC/TR have said that they hate fighting VS. Which explains why I log on my TR character and almost always find both NC and VS pushing TR territory.

    I can tell you this though, being on the other side of a Magrider puts things in perspective. I can honestly say that the Magrider isn't bad at all.
    • Up x 1
  6. LordKrelas

    Well everything but the magrider has been sliding over every bump in the road...
    Being able to drive isn't a magrider specialty.

    The whole strafing over anything still works.
    And hey, Lightnings now can handle a small hill.

    PS1, Magrider was a long tank with 2 guns.
    The new Magrider looks like a practical tank more so than that thing.

    As well, the present magrider can strafe, making that identical - besides the whole "I can go over water that none can cross"
    Which in PS2 would mean giving the VS entire fields of safety if the enemy couldn't get within 200 meters.
    Magriders can dodge any shot from a tank cannon outside 200 meters easier than sin.
    Anything slower in velocity even easier, at closer ranges - It didn't lose the evasion.

    In PS1, VS also had flying max suits basically.
    In PS2, that would be incredibly hellish to deal with, since only VS could get maxes anywhere without help, dodge C-4, and move faster.

    All servers on the PC are on the same patch in general - Patches don't happen often.
    Miller, sounds like VS isn't actually cooperating but TR & NC do given the words I hear about Miller.
    It's always complaints about how it's TR & NC's fault for basically not dying constantly to the low pop faction.
    Which given the track record: Just means Miller's VS fail at using VS technology.

    The old Magrider in PS1 didn't have the mystical PS2 Magrider Saron for sheer BS.
    Nor was elevation important in PS1, unlike PS2.

    The Vanguard is the most heavily armored tank.
    The Shield which was all of 6 seconds of extra health, on PTS is a directional resistance booster now.
    It doesn't even work if you hit the rear, and allows any AV weapon to whittle it down hard.
    It needs the enemy to fire the heaviest shots to be worth it, and on PTS the Vanguard has the most health - which takes the longest to repair (No longer do all three repair at the same pace, when it comes to the Vannie)

    The VS Max's original ZOE was a murder machine - You couldn't outrun it, it could outrun C-4, the combat power was hell.
    It got hit hard, but it was murderously more effective.
    TR's is a situational combat enhancement that roots the max in place, making it basically a heavy fixed-point turret.
    NC's is a directional shield, that can not stop Archer rounds and prevents firing & reloading (unless you reload right before shielding)

    NC is mostly screwed, having RNG shotguns against predictable long-ranged weaponry.
    None of NC's weapons mesh together, between Max & infantry, Heavy-weapon to regular weapons.

    VS is no where near weak.
  7. Demigan

    Exactly, what you can fight or can't fight. Not what the general populace can or can't fight with one. And the general populace can fight one, as both in-game experience and the actual things Magriders achieve prove.

    And "everything is situational" can still be broken down into easier pieces. Such as "what situations are common and thus more influential if one tank is better at that common situation?". The Magrider is by no means a niche vehicle, or the Harasser that many people make it out to be. The Magrider in fact is a wonderful MBT especially in PS2's large-scale combat. Other tanks "deny" others from using cover if one vehicle sticks to it. The other tanks that follow need too much distance from the cover to make reliable use for it and would bump into each other too much to be useful, so less vehicles can pop up and attack at the same time. The Magrider doesn't have those problems, and is even less restricted by terrain and movement while firing. So those TR/NC tanks will be seeing more viable targets on their screen making it harder to focus-fire while also having more Magrider guns capable of opening fire, and those targets also have a higher chance of actually avoiding damage.

    And what is that supposed to tell me? That you are trying to use the PS2 Magrider as the PS1 Magrider, find out that the PS1 tactics are incompatible with the PS2 tactics, and rather than adapt and learn to use the PS2 Magrider you want the PS2 Magrider to simply become OP so you can use it somewhat effectively?

    Hi! I play on Miller! So do you! I'm a European. I play the exact same people as you do.
    The Magrider is well capable of standing it's own against other MBT's, especially against the Vanguard. It requires a bit more tactical thinking than the other two, but if you have the capacity to play like an average infantry player you have more than enough tactical insight to play the less demanding Magrider combat system. In fact the Magrider is in many regards closer to infantry, making it easier to control compared to learning to have enough awareness where your vehicle nose is pointing at, how easy it is to get back into cover and how much damage you'll be receiving if an enemy shoots you now.
    • Up x 1
  8. asmodraxus

    I see people complaining about the VS Orion and how it needed to be nerfed yet the Anchor and MSW-R were nerfed when?

    The best CQC LMG is NC followed by TR followed by the not very good Orion, yes its the best starter LMG, but then the best starter sniper rifle is the NC's! Has the NC's starter sniper rifle been given the same treatment no because the TR and VS sniper rifles are just clones, yet the VS starter LMG is now a sub par copy.

    MBT's
    The mobility advantage of the magrider has long since been neutered by the sped up velocity of the Prowlers and Vanguards shells which can bombard enemy bases from afar whilst the magriders short ranged childs catapult of the main gun has horrible drop and the lowest DPS of all the tank guns

    Armor
    Vanguard > Prowler=Magrider > Lightning

    Main Gun DPS
    Locked down Prowler > Prowler > Lightning > Vanguard > Magrider

    Top gun DPS at 200m (tested against a blockade sundy)
    Enforcer (14sec ttk) = Gatekeeper > Halberd > Saron (21 sec ttk)

    Top gun at point blank
    Enforcer=Gatekeeper=Saron

    Speed
    Magrider for 0.5 seconds > Lightning > Prowler > Vanguard > Magrider

    The only downside of the Vanguard is the reload time, deal with it, on paper the magrider is a p.o.s. and not just on paper in the field I pull a lightning or two over a magrider. Harassers are better then a magrider.

    ZoE was OP at the start was always going to be OP or useless, now useless and more a detriment than anything else, it needs a complete rethink to make it useful, or just deleting, if I could get the 1 cert I have in it back I would.
    • Up x 1
  9. Tattoon


    Thank you for putting it into words. And yes this is spot on what it is.
  10. LordKrelas

    Oh good joke.

    VS's Beetle is the best Directive LMG.
    The Orion had a faster ADS speed, and is still incredibly effective at closer ranges - the range where it is meant to be.
    Yet it's also pretty accurate at longer ranges as well.
    That faster ADS was the seemingly main issue.

    The NC starter sniper is a Bolt-Action.
    It has drop, has sway, and of course requires someone with good aim.
    The TR & VS snipers are more close to the more common weapons used, and are less punishing.
    Add in VS's lack of drop on the starter, with no sway - And it becomes more comic that NC's starter is better.

    If you nerfed a Bolt-action so that semi-auto snipers could match it, You'd basically ruin a good bolt.
    Why only NC has a bolt is anyone's guess, it's not as close to the more common weapons but go figure.
    NC's starter LMG is also a weapon that requires Skill.

    The Magrider's mobility is only countered by that at under 200 meters, and that assumes the magrider isn't doing anything fancy.
    Nor using cover.
    Nor taking advantage of their better mobility to flank their target - which is massive.
    The Magrider is also harder to hit with Infantry-based AV unlike the giant Prowler or Vanguard tanks.

    In addition, if the Magrider's cannon was more effective at range, they'd be able to have both an incredible evasion at range while sporting superior accuracy at range - A fatal combo.
    In addition, it is easier to keep the Mag's curved frontal armor facing the target for obvious reasons.
    Making it difficult to even hit anything but the front if you hit anything at all.

    Armor: The Vanguard is meant to win here.
    Firepower: Prowler is meant to win here.

    Top Gun: Enforcer... doesn't have the same ranges as the two you paired with it.
    As well, Gatekeeper is different on PTS.

    The Enforcer has more drop, isn't a damn AV sniper. So go figure.

    Did you test this speed on VR, on the map, on flat terrain or the usual bumpy hill crap.
    As a magrider is barely influenced by the ground it hovers over while the others slide, must turn their entire chassis, and speed up again near constantly.

    The downsides of the Vanguard:
    Has the longest reload, making every shot incredibly punishing for a miss.
    Like all Tanks but Vanu, must turn the entire Chassis to turn, massive rear area, reliance on shield to win fights.
    This shield as well, became on PTS a resistance booster, making it not only ineffective but is is also directional;
    Making flanking a Vanguard completely nullify the entire shield.
    As well, the Vanguard takes longer to repair on PTS.

    Also on PTS; The Magrider gains the Prowler's reload advantage.
    While keeping all of its traits.


    ZOE was murder.
    Now it's near useless. Go figure, the Saron was OP as hell originally. But yes need a rebuild; However.
    NC still has RNG shotguns as their only AI option for Maxes - A shield that doesn't stop Anti-max, and requires a bugged reloading to reload using it.
    • Up x 1
  11. Demigan

    Well here's the funny part: The MSWR is very close to the Orion and got a nerf too! Because it's the same weapon type! Which is exactly the point I made about the Vanu inferiority complex assuming everything is against them and ignoring that it wasn't a nerf against them but against a specific weapon type! And here I'm explaining it for the 3rd time because the Vanu inferiority complex is so powerful that even if their noses are rammed into the facts they still turn a blind eye to everything not Vanu related!

    When Oracle of Death was still active the Orion was generally around the top spot with the real top being taken by low-usage weapons that benefit high-skill players like the Beteljuice, which is a pretty damn miracle due to the amount of new players screwing up the Orion stats vs the more experienced players who buy the Orion Clones. But let's not forget: Because the average Vanu player will use the best starter LMG, and the fact that LMG's are much more used by new players than sniper rifles, mean that the impact of the best starter LMG has a much more powerful impact on the game. This becomes especially true when new players on the TR/NC have to buy weapons to find out which one is the best and won't instantly hit that wonderful weapon that fits the game better.

    Also the "best starter sniper rifle"? Who the hell cares? The semi-auto sniper rifles are wonderful starter weapons (and I in fact preferred them over the bolt-actions). And additionally all sniper rifles are clones, the only reason they aren't NS is because they each got a different name and weapon model! And how on earth is this "bad" for the VS is they share the same starter sniper rifle as the TR? This is truly grasping at straws.

    The reason the NC starter sniper hasn't been changed is because the damn nerf wasn't aimed at the Orion but it's weapon-class. If the NC starter bolt-action was somehow functioning as both a long-range bolt-action and a shorter ranged semi-auto/scoutrifle, yes then the NC starter sniper would have been changed. But since that's not the case, it wasn't changed!

    Because saying it once apparently won't do here's it again: There was a reason the Orion was changed, and it was because it was a blanket nerf to the weapon class so that it filled a specific ranged niche, rather than being a jack-of-all-trades for both long and short-ranged.

    Not this idiocy again, I don't have patience for that.
    In short, the mobility hasn't been neutered. It might not be as effective as before, but it's still 100% viable as a tank advantage. It's arguably even the best advantage.
    And don't come with the "at 200m you can't dodge!" argument. That horse has been beaten to death and only works on paper. On the battlefield you won't find people constantly aiming dead-center of Magriders and aiming dead-center will also mean you are aiming at the less than 1/3rd hitbox that remains of the Magrider at the sloped edges of the vehicle. Hell only the center is large, immediately off-center you already start with 1/2 the hitbox size so aiming dead-center is a sure-fire way to start missing shots.

    And what stuff are you missing here eh? Besides that some of those things are incorrect (For example unless outdated Enforcer scores about the same as Saron http://www.ps2calc.com/#vehicle1=Vanguard&weapon1=Enforcer ML85&weapon1Upgrade0=5)? Or that you are comparing apples and oranges by comparing the CQC-oriented Saron to the long-range Enforcer? You are missing things like the average hit % of each weapon (which is important for the average TTK someone will achieve), stability across different terrain, capability of firing on the move, capability of using cover, survivability chances, chances at achieving flanking hits, amount of vehicles that can simultaneously be fielded without getting in each others way or taking up each others cover, the TTK that the combined firepower of the top gun and main canon can achieve...
    And let's not forget that you forget the most important thing: The actual achievements each weapon manages to accomplish. It doesn't matter if on paper a weapon is inferior (although likely because of things you can't put into numbers like the actual effectiveness of strafing on the Magrider or stable shooting power on the move), if on average it'll score better than other weapons, it's a better weapon.

    And finally something that's actually true. Yes ZoE is terrible, but the VS MAX overall isn't weak.
    Although you probably have earned more than enough certs from using the OP ZoE to make up for it's loss ever since.
    • Up x 1
  12. Tattoon

    I think its time to gather up and start do some heavy testing/comparing the MAXES and the starter weapons on all classes.

    The only thing i can agree on is the ZOE is ****. And it makes the VS MAX alot worse. Dont come and say "VS MAX overall isn't weak" ********. Everything seems fair to you as long VS doesnt have anything that beats you in right?
  13. Demigan

    I have participated in some heavy testing and comparing MAX's, the VS MAX was best at the time unless in extreme CQC. In extreme CQC the NC MAX won in a 1v1 MAX battle, but for actually murdering dozens of infantry in a row the TR and VS MAX were easier to use due to larger magazine sizes, less wasted damage and enough sustainability&accuracy to actually murder a large bunch of infantry.
    Too bad Oracle of Death has stopped functioning, it had the best layout for comparing statistics between weapons, allowing people to do a more in-depth analysis of what the weapons achieve instead of looking at stats on paper that can be completely misinterpreted or off because in practice it doesn't happen.

    Everything seems fair to me when VS is equally capable as the other two factions. Your Vanu inferiority complex unfortunately kicks in and changes that to "he must be completely against anything VS and wants them nerfed into the ground!", which is bullcrap. I want balance, I want a fair fight regardless of which faction you pick. I want each faction to have their own unique variations but overall be more or less equally capable in every situation. But while I point at the VS inferiority complex which takes on draconian forms, the NC and TR aren't above having their own "but the our faction is inferior!" shoutmatches. At least when I point out flaws like how the Vanguard is simply inferior to the other two tanks I use statistics to prove that it actually is.
    • Up x 2
  14. Tattoon

    Show me the result of the heavy testing. And if you come up with that conclusion about VS MAX you must had forgotten to include it in the test. VS MAX does not work well against HA and MAX. It works okay vs the other classes. If you use Slugs with Mattock you win against a VS with blueshift on 15+ meter. And hitting the head does not require alot of pratice on such slow moving target as a shooting MAX. Same with TR MAX. You straight out win against VS. So Where my inferior complex comes from? Well its things that grow and become more obvious as you play VS. Maybe spend more time play VS instead of being a forum warrior? Telling everyone are delusional or just bad players. Because they feel things are not working as intended/proper balanced.
  15. Zuprize

    Anyone know if a vanguard can take 5 ligthing AP rounds in the rear using it's shield? Or is it 4
  16. Demigan

    And now you fornicating quit being a child allright?
    Every time you try to do this. "well you must not be on my server then", I play on the same damn server, "you must only want the VS MAX to be inferior", "you must never have included the VS MAX in the test if the answer is one that I don't like!".

    I did include the VS MAX in the test as I already mentioned, and I'm not going to waste the time and energy searching for those tests. Open Youtube, the tests were also posted on there and shouldn't be hard to find. Get off your butt and actually look instead of trying to come up with a million-and-one ways to discredit the other party without ever lifting a finger to actually prove what you yourself say.

    The VS MAX works just as well vs the HA and MAX as the TR MAX does, in fact it does so slightly better overall.

    Because mister Tattoon can only engage classes that don't have a ranged weapon that can deal damage to a MAX and can only survive if it's a weapon that requires multiple reloads vs his VS MAX.

    Come on man! Grow some balls! Learn to play the game! The VS MAX isn't weak! It's not instantly dead when a HA comes along, in fact if any MAX is screwed the most by HA's it's the NC MAX due to it's much more limited range! And if you do get within effective NC MAX distance you are likely to get some C4 your way!

    No you don't.
    Let's assume someone with picture-perfect ROF with the semi-auto Mattock, you have an RPM of 180 and slug ammunition deals 2*500m@8m and 2*334@40, meaning at 15m it's got 2*463,68 damage per salvo. With magazine upgrades it has 20 rounds with both arms combined.
    Standard MAX damage reduction against small-arms is 80% and they have 2000 health, so it takes 22 shots to finish off an enemy MAX with Slugs or 11 salvo's (within 8m, which is less than a Sunderer's length, you can just kill them if you hit everything and they don't use emergency repair/kinetic armor). 11 Salvo's is done with one reload in the middle and an RPM of 180 in between. So a total of 3,67 seconds is spend firing and 3,8 seconds reloading (you could potentially speed this up by firing exactly 9 salvo's, then reloading for the quick reload of 3 seconds). That's a total of 7,47 seconds, assuming the random COF doesn't make some shots miss.
    The VS MAX in the meantime deals 2*143 damage per shot regardless of range with a ROF of 366. So it takes 69 shots to down an enemy MAX or 35 salvo's, with a magazine size of 40 without upgrades the VS MAX is well capable of doing it without reloads and have some ammo to spare for misses/kinetic armor/emergency repair. That means the VS MAX has a TTK of 5,73 on the NC MAX, with a lower COF penalty, no semi-auto fire that can ruin your DPS and more reliable at range both in damage and hit%.

    And is very unwise when using the NC slug weapons due to the random COF adding a high chance the slugs miss. Better aim at the neck area or just straight up go for the torso the entire way.

    What same with the TR MAX? The TR MAX functions practically the same as the VS MAX. From what I could quickly see, the TR Mercies were the equivalent of the Blueshifts... And had a TTK of 5,63, but a larger COF has a higher chance of missing shots.

    VS inferiority complex talking, no that's simply not true.

    From the fact that if I say "this belongs to the VS", you'll instantly assume it's inferior. If we swapped the NC starter sniper to the VS tomorrow, you would say it's suddenly inferior.

    Because your mind gets more time to develop the VS inferiority complex, not acquire actual facts.

    I'm not just telling you. You constantly tell me that I have something that is supposed to make everything I say useless. "I don't play on your server", "your story is cute", "you must have missed the VS MAX then", you are grasping, hoping that if you say it loud enough it becomes true so you can keep complaining. Why don't you try the TR and NC more often, you will find that the grass isn't greener on the other side, you'll probably even want to go back to the VS easy mode...
    • Up x 3
  17. Tattoon

    played enough NC and TR, and know exactly how much stronger their MAXes is in most situations.
  18. Demigan

    Well so did I! And I also did tests! And I can also shoot worth a damn! And there's more people who disagree with you here than agree with you! So stop trying to justify yourself if it just ain't true!
    • Up x 2
  19. FLHuk

    /me holds breath and screams "MY BELOVED VS ARE WEAK!" while stamping my feet....

    This thread delivers :D
    • Up x 2
  20. LordKrelas

    Tell me, when exactly is an NC max using AI weaponry better off than a VS max?
    What, 2 milimeters away from the target, inside the Impossible-to-miss rocket range, C-4 Range, Rocklet-Range, Tank mines and still has RNG to worry about for the NC Max?
    Or the practical range of a AI weapon wielded by VS, that doesn't have RNG, doesn't require the Max to stand in the absolute range of every single Anti-max weapon, and allows the VS Max to actually have Cover from Archer-Fire without giving up the ability to fire.

    Or do you mean when the Max is in an open field, corridor, moderate open space, vehicle bay, anywhere outside in general, where an NC AI max is rendered open-season for enemy weapons fire, without the ability to fire back?

    Where can an NC AI max actually be considered useful; Hidden around a doorway, top of a staircase, inside a small room, where everything I mention in line 2 earlier comes into play.
    That is: Inside C-4 range, Impossible-to-miss Rocket Range, Rocklet-Range, Tank Mines, even Archer Fire, and Glorious RNG on every shot even in close-quarters.

    Now for ammunition, NC maxes have the least as well, followed by the Longest reload exposing the max for the longest time.
    At best you have 20 shells - And that's not even a mattlock, the only NC Max shotgun anyone gives a damn about it seems.
    Did you know our starter one is the Scattercannon? Or that we have 5 shotguns?

    In order to have a mattlock, let alone with slugs, you need 1150 certs last time I checked.
    For two arms, that is 2200 certs to finally be an NC Shotgun max that is properly armed.

    VS or TR, you pay around 1000 certs for a second gun of your choice.
    And you are now a properly armed AI max - that hasn't needed to buy any attachments.

    Now for where a TR or VS max is good for, Since apparently you forgot:
    Open Field (You can actually fire onto, and from hills, to kill infantry) , Any size of Room, Outside of C-4 Range, Outside of Tank Mines, Any Doorway, Roof tops, behind cover, Any staircase position, any exterior position (Assuming you want to deal with the rare archer) , any corridor, close-combat, medium-range, the impractical long-range.
    A TR or VS max can hold a doorway similar to an NC max with a notable difference;
    You can actually fire upon those outside the door-frame whom are shooting into the building.

    An NC max must leave or fully expose themselves to the outside, just to attempt to engage anything outside a few meters of that doorway.
    Standing into the open, doesn't even allow a remote shooting just renders the max into a long reloading sequence.
    - While rockets fly in, completely unhindered by the brief RNG shotgun pellets flying into the air.

    TR or VS, may happily fire onto any such target, killing them or hitting them back into cover, if any rockets fly in, they are returned with AI weaponsfire.
    A Lockdown TR max can be very effective doing this for short periods (to limit exposure but max out results, you stand there for too long, and you just killed yourself)

    So, given the VS max competes with NC's AI options being all RNG shotguns that have crap ammo, and only 1 (The mattlock) is even remembered to exist, VS certainly isn't in any way inferior or disadvantaged in most situations.
    You don't only have RNG shotguns as AI as VS, that's NC's problem.
    VS maxes have a screwed ZOE, not a screwed weapons problem.

    So go play a bloody NC max, and tell me how often you go "I love having this RNG weapon" compared to cursing the blighted idea for NC to only have RNG for AI weapons that are also all short-ranged, long-reloading, small magazines, and are nearly identical in uselessness.

    Then again you'll likely complain that RNG is better than being able to kill at a distance.
    Or that a strafing tank is far worse than a sitting duck.
    Or that cover is a horrid thing to be able to use, as it prevents your own death.
    You know, other insane things.
    • Up x 1