Make the Commissioner a NC-only weapon

Shotguns are close-range RNG weapons.
Outside of a door-frame, they are dysfunctional, and require either a up-front easily C-4'd position, or to always be advancing hoping for no Tank mines, archer fire or rockets to prevent them from getting into melee range.

Highest Kill potential my ***; It requires idiots storm into it, yet not during the longest bloody reload on the smallest magazines.

Jackhammer, is a triple-shot shotgun; A weapon of RNG close-ranged RNG at that.
Or have you never used it?

Slowest Firing rate, which also makes every bullet that isn't a head-shot or dead-on accurate incredibly punishing.
At a slower rate as well, making TR & VS weapons which can land more shots or simply fire more down range, can more reliably, faster, and much more easily deliver constant damage.
And with NC's slow reload, NC units are vulnerable for longer periods of time.

Never said to give the Commissioner to the NC, I found it a wee bit comic.
However it, not any NC gun is the best sidearm.
Or anywhere close.

Tengu is a shotgun SMG, that's the joke about it.
Again, never said it should be NC specific. I stated NC doesn't have the best SMGs.

VS beetleguise.

Lancer, a long range, highly accurate anti-armor weapon, that does not render the operator defenseless during the entire use of it.

Phoenix, a slow firing, single shot, low-damage guided missile with a horrid turning radius, that also renders the operator unable to see or act during the entire slow flight.

Lasher, given it's a supporting heavy weapon, it does it quite well;
Long range, allows for creative suppression fire.
AoA allows it to ignore cover.
Its main flaw is projectile speed; which is horrid.

Chaingun, is TR. Just to prove the point of how horrid NC's heavy weapon is.
I would've thought it was obvious.

Any NC heavy, with a Jack Hammer has to pray to RNGesus to hit & kill the target.
After first getting in range, and of course praying they don't use the small magazine fast.
You do know how NC max'es that are AI, are countered? walk a few feet away - same defense against any shotgun.
And the Jack Hammer? Can't even get slugs.

Striker, is the TR launcher.
I included all three to showcase how NC's is the least useful.
It's gloriously simple weapon to fire, that doesn't render the user sniper-bait, or simply screwed if not in a spawn room.

Oh yes, the slower firing weaponry that requires equal or better rate of Head-shoting the target, whom has more bullets to make the shot, a faster reload letting them recover faster, and less recoil, allowing them to more easily achieve the shot.
Heaven forbid 500 RPM with 200 damage, not require a marksman to not only be the operator, but for the opponent to not be able to wield their weapon at all.

The NC standard sidearm does the same damage as the bloody rifle.
And at the same bloody pace.

"Head shots matter more for NC", and head-shots are easier for everyone but NC.
Whom also must ADS, which reduces the work required to head-shot the NC while they finally can hit a barn.
Mean-while TR & VS can actually hip-fire an LMG and kill the target, let alone hit it beyond melee range.

"Jack Hammer", the one gun I rarely see.
Why? As barely would you bother with a shotgun with such low ammo.
Your opponent either is well outside the range, or filling you with holes long before RNG blesses you.
Or the poor sod is dead, and you pray that your clip isn't empty.
Do recall, the murderously long reload times.

Same issue with the AI maxes, all shotguns praying to RNGesus, with a massive reload on smaller-than-sane magazines.
Mattlocks they say; 2000+ certs to get, and then 150 per slugs per arm.
2300 certs, to actually have the shortest ranged AI weapon on a Max.
Perfectly inside the near-impossible-to-miss zone of every anti-max-weapon.

I rather use my VS or TR rifle, than any RNG shotgun just to have any AI option as a Max.
Like my gods, it's a slow Max unit, why must it only have RNG-shotguns?

Ok, let's rip apart all that text wall...

shotguns are not that close range RNG anymore. They WERE (at least for someone who never heard of slug ammo...) but now they are quite decent if you don't go for duelling snipers...

With the NC MAX slug shotties are more than just evil. Sorry if you can't shoot them for half an hour without reload but there is a reason why you need to stop shooting those one-trigger-pull-killers (not one-shot, because you need both arms to hit ONCE, what a terrible disadvantage... *sarcasm off*) from time to time. And even without slugs, NC maxes are far from being limited to a range that they could also punch their victims so PLEASE stop telling such bullsh...

Jackhammer has multiple fire modes, you know? and the 3-shot-burst is deadly to an absurd range, you know? And it is the shotgn with least spread, so the most accurate one, you know? Or have you never used it?

There is a reason for the Long reload for NC weapons... Either they have very high DPS (GD-7F) or such an insanely high damage per mag (Gauss SAW) that the Long reload time REALLY doesn't matter and it Needs to be there to somehow compensate the advantage of the fire power NC weapons in general have...

NC does have the best SMG, look at the stats... And that the Tengu is (sort of) a shotgun SMG does have what effect on this debate again?

That "VS beetleguise.", that you inserted without any further explaination should tell us what exactly? I can say Godsaw (the best LMG in the game by far) as well...

Due to the laughably low damage output, the lancer is only dangerous to anything if there is a whole bunch of people concentrating lancer beams in a coordinated way on 1 target and guess how many times i have seen that on the battlefield in the 4 years i have been playing PS2 now... RIGHT; NEVER! 1 lancer heavy alone is practically a free kill for snipers...

Phoenix is limited in it's use, that is right but having a long range accurate guided explosive is not the worst Thing if you know how to use it...

lasher - just read again what i wrote before. useless alone, a joke in actual fights and only suitable if you camp (which is boring and absolutely ineffective)

Chaingun: we talked about VS and NC
I would've thought it was obvious.

The following text about shotgun range would not have been right if you wrote it a year ago but at least someone could have said that there is a little (quite overextended...) spark of truth in that text but now that is plain bullsh... The jackhammer is FAR from being RNG and NC MAX shotties do have enough range (again: even if you never herad of slugs...)

Striker: again: we talked about VS and NC
I would've thought it was obvious.
(apart from that, you did not answer the big problem of it not being able to 1-shot infantry, as you stated that as a main problem for the phoenix, completely ignoring the fact that none of the ES special launchers is able to do that...)

NC have the Gauss SAW so please avoid the topic of "the target whom has more bullets to make the shot". Dude, if you hate small magazines try VS and you will cry...

And? You don't want to say the beamer is a better alternatvie to the mag shot, do you???

Yeah, NC has to aim a bit more carefully but hell, when their bullets hit, they DO hurt (not like those water guns of the VS...)

Jackhammer again: closest spread, best range, largest magazine, most accurate, several fire modes and short reload time shotty? Yepp, that sounds like a real pain in the a** *sarcasm off*. Again, please buy that weapon and press "b" (by default) and try single shot. I am saying this because from what you write, i can surely tell you never tried it...

Sorry but i ignore that sh... you wrote about NC MAXes in the following paragraph. That crap is just so untrue, it hurts.

Erm... maybe this is some sort of compensation for the ability to clear a whole room (including other MAXes) within seconds?

Can you please quote me , for simplicity next time? At least once, so I get a notification!

They are still RNG.
As well, slug ammo makes it a short-ranged pistol for all purposes; sacrificing more certs just to become more viable.

You can't actually suppress a room, unlike any VS or TR max.
You have to pray every bloody blast actually hits the target, as if you reload; You'll likely eat two rockets from the same bloody guy before being done.
Slugs, unlike VS or TR, are a required Cert line... just to actually use the weapons.
And our starter AI, is the scattercannon not mattlock - which is the Legit only shotgun max you will ever hear about on this site.

They are actually quite limited if you wish to reliably hit & hill; As it is a shotgun, you literally have a hard cap even with the RNG.

Yes single shot or 3-burst.
Not using the tri-burst kinda makes it the same as every other shotgun - Which means its a hair away from being any different.
Unlike an AoA splash weapon (Lasher), or massive Chaingun with ramping up fire-rates.
A shotgun is still RNG, and close range; I'll get to how that's a crap combo in a moment.


Long Reloads, on weaponry with the slowest firing rates, massive CoF after singular bullets, requiring ADS, and are out DPS'ed by TR & VS if they aren't at longer ranges single-shot firing.
This puts NC at a stark contrast to the Heavy weapon & Max support roles:
If the enemy is close enough to have those allies fire, the mainline NC weaponry is at a disadvantage.
If the enemy isn't, allowing mainline NC weaponry to be effective, those allies can not fire.
Either NC needs to have CR supremacy or be reliant on range for their combat doctrine.
Not this voodoo-mash, given the weaponry can't cover the weaknesses of the other, and it isn't mirrored by TR or VS.
TR's heavy weapon meshes with the ranges of their entire arsenal.
VS's heavy weapon, again meshes with the ranges of their arsenal.

Same with the Maxes.
NC's AI options are all shotguns; All close range RNG weaponry, that always exposes the max unit, has low ammunition, and long reloads; And of them all, only 1 single gun here is ever mentioned to be worth anything; Mattlock.

TR's are mostly chainguns, but have multiple types for multiple ranges.
You hear about every single AI weapon.

VS's are mostly machine guns, with slight differences between them.
As they have different ranges of effect.

NC's max AI? Shotgun, Shotgun with slightly more ammo, Shotgun with slightly more range.
That sums it up; It's so near identical in range, capabilities, and ammo issues that it's no small wonder only the Mattlock is remembered, and that is due to the better-than-standard-range when using Slugs.

Beetle, has the best LMG stats of the directive weapons; Like far far ahead.
Godsaw has the worst.
TR's Butcher is barely above the Godsaw, with it sometimes matching it.
And that's from this forum's own posters, whom had data.

And... the Phoenix needs the same thing, but causes all of those people to be literally defenseless for the entire guiding process of the low damage rocket.
The Lancer's charge model however... yeah that doesn't leave them screwed.

Lasher is used Expertly by the Korens on Connery; They use it to flood doorways during take & Holds, corridors, firing spots.
It ain't a solo weapon, like the Jackhammer - It's more akin to the chaingun's rep as an assist-gun which translates to:
Actually supporting allies properly & effectively.

The Beamer, can be rapidly fired akin to an SMG.
There's a clip of it on this site; It is priceless.

NC having to ADS unlike everyone else, to actually hit the target...
Like, it doesn't matter if I have a one-shot-to-kill weapon (which we do not), if by the time it fires, that the shooter would be dead three times over unless the enemy was hindered massively.
By the time NC weaponry deal their damage, the enemy has already dealt more damage and done it faster;
If NC's gun deals 200 damage, and say gets off 1 bullet; That's 200 if it hits.
If TR's gun deals 167 damage, they would get off 2-3 bullets; 334 to 501 damage.
Damage-per-second; NC loses hard, beyond the Cyclone, an SMG. go figure.

Now if NC manages to fire off 3 bullets; that's 600 damage if all hit, if one misses that's 200 less.
If TR manages to fire off 3 bullets, that's 501 damage, if one misses that's 167 less.
In the time NC manages to fire off 3 bullets, TR will have fired more than 3.
2 TR bullets is 334 ; TR weaponry fires faster than NC weaponry, so at the lowest they have a 2:1 ratio.
So NC's damage model is outpaced by volume of fire.
With more bullets, misses are less dramatic, as well, only 2 bullets need to hit to deal more damage than NC's.


Slugs, on every shotgun basically take a shotgun, and make it a hand-cannon not a shotgun... and don't solve the range issues.
Pellets are not firing predictably, they are RNG.
I shouldn't need to cert into Slugs just to actually have a practical AI weapon.
My TR & VS maxes, didn't need add-ons just to fire their weapons at their designed ranges; which are longer.
Which makes all NC maxes more bloody expensive.

As well, in order for an NC max to 'wipe' a room including of enemy maxes:

• They most be in close-quarters (No pellets can miss, or they waste the needed ammo)
• They must be less opponents than rounds, specifically no more than 3 opponents. (2 per after all)
• The Maxes must not be engaged at the same time.
• No rockets must be in the Room.

Why?
As if it's not close range, the missing of pellets if the weapon can even reach results in a reload.
Reload is the death of the Max, as it takes so long to actually finish; And you have 6-8 rounds.

If the enemy max is engaged at the same time, if they have AI or AV they can grind the NC max down hard while the infantry hammer it as well.

Any rockets will 2 shot the max; a single rocket puts it down to half, which makes it easy to kill by an Enemy Max.
After all, the only reason an NC max can 'more quickly' put down an enemy max is nearly in melee ensuring every pellet hits, and that's most of the clip.

A TR or VS max, can literally down a whole squad not a mere 3 to 6, from across a room.
And likely not even need the second to reload.
NC's can not manage that, and become useless in larger rooms.
As friendly fire is incredibly easy, given you have less control over the pellets than standard rounds fired.

I consider myself a fairly decent player, and I find NC MAXes to be the worst, by far, at AI.
I care about my KD more than I should, so I almost never pull the C4 magnets. Err, I mean "scatmaxes". Give me an HA with a rifle, and I'll be a far more effective (and long-lived) asset to my team.
If I must go AI MAX, I generally opt for Falcons, because bringing a MAX into close quarters is suicide, and slugs are literal RNG hell. And Falcons are, despite being the 'best' AI option I've found, still pretty terrible at the task.

Whenever people yell that scatmaxes are OP, I usually propose that NC MAXes be given chainguns; that way, they'll likely never see a scatmax again.
Surprisingly, they never seem on board with this solution..

As you read more and more, you will see them forum is basically "the status quo is great" regardless of in game states... so just get used to it.

Sorry to interject, but I'm afraid I agree with LordKrelas.

I assume you're referring to the semi-recent shotgun changes. I wonder if the three of us are playing the same game, because shotguns were effectively nerfed across the board thanks to that patch. Regardless though, MAX shotguns weren't affected. And they still suck despite dodging that bullet.

The Jackhammer may be the king of shotguns, (probably), but this does not mean the Jackhammer is the best for everything, nor that it is the king of a strong force. The JH has all of two firing modes: 3-round burst or semi-auto. That doesn't help very much.

And as for "deadly to an absurd range," what the fnck have I been using instead this whole time? My JH can't kill a stationary target in one burst from 10 meters away! Also the NS Baron is actually more accurate, if not identical. (According to the wiki, the Baron has a 0.05 better moving ADS firing accuracy, for all the difference that would make. All other accuracy stats are identical, while the Baron has two more pellets.)

Also Jackhammer can't use slugs.

Reload speed is unrelated to DPS. The NC's GD-7F is nearly identical to the VS' Serpent. Both have a damage model of 845RPM & 143 DMG before 10 meters. Despite this, the GD-7F has a 0.11 second longer reload, at 2.7 seconds.

NC weapons tend to have smaller magazines and longer reloads because the NC's weapons are meant to be dependant on accuracy. Ideally, a small mag and a long reload won't matter if one killed all his opposition with the bullets he had. 200DMG, 500RPM damage model requires strong accuracy to be effective.

I can't really speak for SMGs. The Cyclone got nerfed once or twice a while back, and I haven't used it since I auraxium'd it ages ago. All ES SMGs seem pretty good to me, but the two NS ones don't seem very flattering. Tengu is fairly decent I suppose, but fnck that piece of **** for stealing the NC's damage! D:<

The VS' Betelgeuse is effectively the best automatic weapon in the game for all intents and purposes.

The GODSAW is practically identical to the base Gauss SAW. It varies so little, one might not even notice if his GODSAW was replaced by a regular SAW. Smaller mag, shorter reload, tiny velocity boost and longer damage drop-off. Accuracy, fire rate, damage, everything else (minus the AV firing mode) is exactly the same.

"Due to the laughably low damage output, the [Phoenix] is only dangerous to anything if there is a whole bunch of people concentrating [rockets] in a coordinated way on 1 target and guess how many times i have seen that on the battlefield in the 4 years i have been playing PS2 now... RIGHT; NEVER! 1 [Phoenix] heavy alone is practically a free kill for snipers..."

Phoenix is trash, total hot garbage. Fun, but that's about all. Regardless, "long range" = 290m maximum, "accuracy" = displaced camera, the rocket is actually lower than the camera feed suggests. To make it even worse, the [GU10/24 NC15 Phoenix Nerf] took the worse, lowest performing launcher and mercilessly nerfed it again anyways. Not only does it have the worse DPS of any launcher in the game, but the extremely slow and lethargic, bright blue orbs can be shot down with small arms fire. The Phoenix is a fun weapon, not a good one.

All weapons in PS2 are subject to RNG by some degree. Shotguns and especially the Jackhammer with its bursts are very heavily dependant on luck and favourable circumstance. NC's MAXes have $h!t-all for firepower down range, much less than any TR or VS machinegun.

I do believe LordKrelas means to say a weapon with a higher RoF has more chances to headshot if the user or weapon misses. NC has the small magazine trait, not VS.

Beamer is better if all one wants is sheer spamibility. The Magshot is basically just a 15-round pocket-SAW stuck in semi-auto.

The difference in shots to kill between damage models is as little as 1-3 on average, with the more shots needed the more shots fired.

Jackhammer, again. Tied with an NS weapon for spread, second in accuracy, *two firing modes not "several," actually has the longest reload of any infantry shotgun at 2.7 seconds short & 3.7 long, lowest damage per shot if all pellets hit of all infantry shotguns, at 560 DMG, and lowest number of pellets per shot of any infantry shotgun. It does have the largest magazine however, at 18 with extended mags. Yep, sounds like a beast.

Have you ever used the Jackhammer before?

Source for all data: http://planetside.wikia.com/wiki/Weapons