MAX is too expensive

because vehicles can't enter buildings
a dead vehicle being a dead vehicle and maxes being able to revive and resuply from ammopacks

i wanna see you LA lonewolfing into a squad ... seriously if you manage that 7 times out of 10 i have to assume those squads are demented ... because i sure tried and got shredded 9 out of 10 ...
and yes ANYTHING that goes lonewolf unless the player is skilled should die ... this is a game usaly played in teams .. and maxes are powerfull when it comes to dishing out dmg so yes they SHOULD require support to survive ... otherwise you'd see more maxes running arround than any infantry for that matter which would be stupid beyond words ...

Watch the entirety of this video please. I should have used dual cyclers lol.

Fake staged video.
MAX would have been focus fired in 0.5 seconds if in LOS of that many enemies, medic would have died to C4, Engineer would be repairing his turret instead of you, and everyone would have rocket launchers, archers, and HEG maxes.

Because aircraft are OP?
Because the Liberator, despite being the same price as an MBT, can survive 2+C4, has 2 primary weapons that put most tank primaries to shame and a secondary that is better than secondaries on the ground? Not to mention ofcourse it's better speed and flight capabilities...

It's a bit unfair to compare a MAX to a Liberator, if the Liberator already eclipses just about everything else on the ground (because let's face it: The only reason the Liberator isn't the dominating vehicle in the game is because there's 5x more ESF than any other ground vehicle and a Liberator is far too vulnerable too ESF).

Comparing a MAX to an MBT? They both excell at their own things. MAX's can enter buildings, use their health and firepower there, MAX's are far easier to use in a team with Engineers and Medics. And MAX's can ofcourse be revived... Making them valuable to the effort to capture or hold bases.
MBT's excell in other area's. Faster, more firepower at longer ranges, more univerally useful compared to MAX weaponry, much less vulnerable to HA rockets&missiles... But it can't be revived and it can't enter buildings. So considering the placement and power a MAX has, it's cost/effectiveness is pretty good.

I hate this argument. The time and effort it takes to fulfill these clicks doesn't matter? The range and placement doesn't matter? The potential retaliation power of a MAX doesn't matter? It's all about clicks? Well a TR MAX can kill half a dozen enemies with one click by holding the trigger! Wait, let's be nice and make the right assumption that "clicks" means "fired/detonated ammo". Then the NC MAX still can kill enemies in one click! While their opponents need 2-3! But once again, you would immediately point out the range, the ammo capacity, the downtime of reloads, the pellet spread, potential scenario's for sneaking up or using cover to do pop-up attacks and limit exposure...
And that's the thing, context matters. 2-3 clicks doesn't matter by itself. 2-3 clicks with superior ease-of-use and the ability to survive that time? Hey that matters. But I don't really see that. Yes there's weapons that can take down a MAX in relatively short time, and why shouldn't there be? The MAX would become immensely more powerful if those weapons were removed or nerfed.

I don't think MAX's should survive a single C4. I don't think I would mind it much if they survived it with a small bit of health left, but I see no reason they absolutely must survive a single C4.

what a weird way to spell onslaught's

don't know which server you play on but usaly i see maxes being followed at least by one or 2 engineers "like puppets" repairing and resupplying it ... engineers focusing on their turret are likely to end up with bullets to the head ..
and if people focusfire the max with non AV weapons they are doing exactly what a maxgroup would want which is tanking the shots that should actualy go torwards the engineers and medics that support the max

slight correction

I mean come on it's NC for crying out loud. Any faction knows they are easy farm and they like to stay at the last remaining sundy and keep spawning like morons until someone finally blows it up.I've done this many times and not just on a max but as a infil just spamming proxy mines until i ran out of nanites.

thats an odd argument from someone who just said to compare them to MBTs,

one takes 2 bricks of c4 to kill, is immune to small arms, can be exited to repair to full hp in seconds, has a very powerful gun and also can offer a secondary rather powerful gun, takes plenty of rockets to destroy and has fast speed so they can easily retreat to repair themselves.

the other takes a single brick of c4 or 2 rockets/rocklet volleys or 3 archer shots to destroy, is the slowest unit in the game with no "oh s%%t" buttons only a hilariously weak 20% heal over 12 seconds on a 45 second cooldown.

oh but they can be completely ignored by medics revived!
the number of times i die and get rezzed as a max are far outweighed by the number of times the medics would rather pretend to be HAs.
also i'd GLADLY trade the ability to be revived for MBT level of defence on my max,
hell, maybe then max might last longer than 30 seconds before a c4fairy hurls their oneshot across the room to claim their certs...

max simply isn't worth 450 resources...
i dont want to reduce the cost but they really do need to survive a single c4 and 2 rockets by default,
NAR and kinetic may aswell not exist until then because flak is MANDATORY.

how about this, remove NAR and let maxes use the regen implant
either that or roll flak armour into the base max.
finally a max can be worth a damn without a pet engi.

I would gladly trade the ability to be rezzed, and a decent reduction to anti-infantry firepower, in exchange for a heavy resistance against C4, so a kill would take 2 C4s or 3 rockets.

Try to land two C-4 on an infantry sized target.
Let alone 3 rockets on a target with brains, or any allies.. IE any max that isn't suicidal or a moron.

Those MBTs are a much bigger target, and are easier to land C-4 on, as well, aren't packing the weaponry of Maxes, which can be multiple types of weaponry.
Both can be repaired in seconds to full health.

Maxes used to have Charge - sadly that was lost.

If Maxes had MBT level of protection, you'd be able to dominate inside without fear of anything if supported, and damn near god even alone.

Regeneration Implant would be insane; Lone max able to regenerate to full rapidly, after 10 seconds, by itself.
Add in the Ammo Printer, and that Max needs no one for ****.
Tanks need Engineers if they wish to not die as well - Expect that they are Engineers.

Not saying Maxes don't need something, but dear lord.

Maxes can't be buffed without nerfing something else on them. If you make then tougher to kill they have to have much slower repair rates or MAX+Engineer would be unstoppable.

MAX's are only really good when you've sunk about 5k certs into them. Gotta have a second AI weapon, gotta have extended ammo on both arms, gotta have maxed out flak armor (might as well ignore the other 2, MAXs are explosive magnets. AV mine in a door= death otherwise) A bunch of ranks into whatever ability you fancy. Then...Only then are they good.

Liberators are the same thing by the way. You guys talking about how incredible libs are. Go fly a stock lib. It's AWFUL. Libs take a TON of certs to become flying fortresses of death.

MAX is definitely worth it's 450 resources. It's the combination of being able to be revived, stand in infantry area's and be easy to teamwork with.

But again, I don't see a reason for MAX's to survive a C4. I don't see a reason why they absolutely shouldn't. What I'm against is saying they are completely worthless without being able to survive a single C4, or that they are easy because "you can kill them in 2/3 clicks".

You could also just sacrifice your ability to regen or sacrifice your higher small-arms resistance for that flak armor, and suddenly it takes 2 C4 or 3 rockets to kill you...

Didn't know that did you?

And the game publishes this information where?
Does the VR have a place where you can test enemy weapons on yourself and how loadouts effect it?
Does C4 even say how much damage it does on the tool tip?
How much health infantry have? MAX? Vehicles? Who knows? It doesn't say.
They can't even bother to explain how much the various chassis help a vehicles performance after how many years now?

So why would I cert into something that may very well not help at all in any effective sense until the very last tier?

they aren't worthless, they just aren't worth the cost of a liberator, there is no contest.
if i pull a lib or MBT then i can expect to survive for atleast 5 minutes since both can escape from any danger and you can repair it yourself.
as the slowest unit in the game and death to a single c4 you're a glorified cert pinata.
and unless you're in a squad with pocket engies and medics you're dead fairly swiftly.

we should probably agree to disagree.

nope.
with the exception of jump pad drifters you should never be dying to c4 as an MBT...
you can move much faster than any infantry, if you see them coming, simply reverse.
and then we have max, slowest unit in the game, dead to a single c4 thrown anywhere near them.

there is no contest between max and mbt when it comes to dealing with c4.
one survives 2 and is extremely fast, the other is dead to a single brick and moves like a snail...

Wiki.

No, use math.

Yes, click on C-4, see raw damage listed to side. Followed by a Wiki crawl to the Resistances page and MAX Flak armor page to get the appropriate numbers to do math.

Read the wiki. 500/500, shields to health for all standard Infantry, except Infiltrators who have 400/500. MAXes have 2000 base health that resists small arms fire.

This is a bit different, wherein the general text blurbs are easier to visualize than the specifics. Most of the numerical changes - the fields alone! - are so obtuse and difficult to apply to any specific situation. In many cases, it's not "haven't explained" but more like "the explanation doesn't help much."

I know I said "read the wiki" and I'm not going to completely wipe DBG of blame for neglecting information, but RTFM. Just RTFM. The game is under no obligation to give you every obscure field of data that something modifies and can't be expected to do that.

I'd be very much a happier player myself if the game gave us no specific stats at all.

Nope. Game does not give you that information. You either test it yourself with a friend or look for information posted by others who have tested it with video footage or else trust that they data mined it some how and posted that information.

If you're not a search for it or test it yourself kind of guy then you can always just ask in game (avoid general chat it's garbage) Find a decent outfit with players >BR80 and ask them. Most of the players in my outfit have an absolute wealth of knowledge when it comes to PS2 and are always willing to sound like know it all's if you ask questions. I'm sure most outfits that have decent veterans are the same in that regard.

I know some medics don't rezz people when they could. There are a host of good and bad reasons for this. Just one thing though - medic is most vulnerable when rezzing and it takes quite a bit longer to rezz a Max than a regular infantryman. And you can't rezz a Max with a 'nade either. I generally like to rezz MAxes when I can though, as they always accept the attempt.

I don't have a view for or against Max costs as I don't play Max. But I can say that, as a support class main, I see them being kept in the fight or returned to it quite regularly.