[Guide] NSX Tengu: Highly Technical Weapon Guide

>>> Posted at Iridar.net <<<

Keep in mind that this guide reviews the weapon as it is right now. Tengu is very likely to receive some buffs and fixes in near future, and then the guide will be updated accordingly.

Good stuff! Thanks for this + all your other guides, they've been really useful over the past 4 years

I don't understand the purpose of the Tengu.
Up close, it's out-DPS'd and way out-TTK'd by nearly every gun in the game, let alone other SMGs.
And at range, it is, of course, terrible.
The idea is fun, and I bought the weapon wanting to have fun with it, but all I could do was rage at how completely terrible it is versus a competent opponent, and how much of an all-around disadvantage I was putting myself at by carrying it.

It's a low skill, low reward kind of weapon. In ideal conditions Tengu loses to most weapons, but in less ideal conditions, with both players being fairly terrible, Tengu can give an advantage.

Most SMGs are fairly terrible and pointless weapons. Tengu isn't very different in that regard. But that's how it measures to other SMGs.

The network code is not so great in this game that SMG have to be that finely tuned to be viable. Probably the only thing that would frustrate an infiltrator SMG in terms of TTK would be the HA shield. Existing SMG vary wildly in terms of performance.

Well, I would strongly disagree here. SMGs can be extremely effective in 1v1 situations, for any class.

As always, top guide dude!

Can be, but every class usually has a weapon that is nearly as good in CQC, or even better. Things like CQC ARs and carbines. And they're much better at range, hence more versatile. Things get a bit more limited for HA and Infiltrators. But HA don't benefit from SMG mobility as much, since they're already slowed down by the shield. By method of exclusion, the only class that really benefits from SMGs are Infiltrators, and only because poor sods don't have access to anything else.

I find that the CQC ARs and Carbines, while perhaps having better damage falloff, and theoretically better DPS, have much harsher vertical/horizontal recoil than their SMG counterparts, making their use at range rather ineffective.
From a purely personal, anecdotal standpoint, the NS-PDW SMG is far and away more effective at range than any CQC AR or carbine. It may do a bit less DPS in CQC, but overall it's much more well-rounded, IMO.
Certain SMGs also offer more kill potential per magazine than the CQC carbines and ARs do. If you're not so worried about needing the utmost edge in DPS in order to drop your targets, this can be a huge plus.

Vertical - maybe, but that's not a problem to anyone with a mouse.
Horizontal - not really. SMGs have it worse. They also don't get an accuracy boost for staying still or crouching, and low damage and strong damage degradation are liabilities as well. There's just no contest.

From a personal, anecdotal standpoint Repeater is the best sniper rifle, IMO.

To take advantage of it, you have to actually kill someone first. It's a bit more important for VS and NC. 40 round TR mags really make SMGs obsolete. Especially considering our high cap SMG is dog ****.

Can be. Compared to longer effective range, usually isn't.

I get it. You like SMGs. Power to you. Doesn't change the fact they're objectively worse weapons for most in-game situations.

That's not strictly true. Compare the NS7 PDW to the NC GR22, a CQC AR. The PDW has less horizontal recoil, less CoF bloom, and half the FSR multiplier. It also has better accuracy while on the move (and let's face it - who stands still in a firefight? Other than the suicidal folks?), and that movement speed is 50% faster than the AR while ADSing (again, an advantage in CQC).
And while the GR22 drops 3 damage tiers in 60m, the PDW only drops 2 tiers in 65m. Not to mention that the PDW also has 5m more max damage range than the GR22. And extended mags gives the PDW 40 rounds to the GR22's 30, which can be important in ranged engagements.
Now, the GR22 is a great CQC weapon. But the PDW is also an excellent CQC weapon. The difference is that the GR22 is at a mechanical disadvantage on nearly every front when it comes to ranged engagements.

No need to be facetious, now.

The PDW has access to a 40-round magazine, and the Blitz a 50-round. Both of these are higher than anything available to NC LAs, engies, and medics.

See my first paragraph about why I would argue that the CQC-focused carbines/ARs don't necessarily have longer effective range.

And it seems like you really don't like them? That's fair, everyone has their own playstyles. But can you justify how they are "objectively" worse?

I like that you're including numbers in your argument, but you're going off wrong numbers. Raw magazine size is meaningless when we're comparing weapons with different bullet damage. Damage per magazine is a more objective measure. Same can be said about several other statistics.

Second, NS-7 is just one SMG. There are 8 other SMGs besides it, and NS-7 has the longest effective range by far, and pays with CQC effectiveness for it. You're cherry picking. I'm talking about SMGs as a whole. But that's fine. I'm gonna take NS-7 and compare it to GR22 you mentioned, and prove that even NS-7 loses to it, both at range and in CQC.

Huge wall of text incoming, if you don't want to bother with it, just read the analysis and verdict lines.

I. Traits important in ranged combat:
Damage per bullet at the range of engagement. Let's take 40m as a baseline, because I wouldn't expect a CQC weapon to have decent ranged performance past that mark.
NS-7 damage at 40m: 112
GR22: 124 ~10% higher

NS-7 DPS: 1400
GR22 DPS: 1653 ~18% higher

GR22 has a clear advantage here. The gap will be even bigger with most other SMGs, as they usually drop 4 tiers.

Starting Cone of Fire for better initial accuracy. Especially important when bursting to frequently reset CoF to boost the effectiveness of ranged fire.
NS7: 0.3 in all stances.
GR22: 0.1 / 0.2 / 0.1 / 0.35

GR22 loses by a hair when moving. However, when situation allows, GR22 can boost accuracy by crouching or staying still.

Cone of Fire Bloom per point of damage done. This is the objective measure of the weapon's ability to maintain accuracy while dealing damage. It affects how often and how early you have to burst fire, interrupting your damage output, and giving enemy breathing room.
NS-7: 4,46^-4
GR22: 4,03^-4 (~10% lower)

Both have Bloom of 0.05, but NS-7 deals less damage, so it has to burst more, or miss more shots. Either way, doing even less damage.

One-burst distance according to Angular Size Research. This is something I did in my spare time, and I use it as a semi-objective way to gauge weapon's effective range. It takes bullet damage and CoF properties into account, and calculates the distance where the weapon can kill an enemy with one burst and without missing a single shot, assuming perfect crosshair placement on center mass and ignoring recoil.

I'm taking a standard target with full Nanoweave for this comparison, so 1250 effective HP. SPA assumed on both weapons.

NS-7: ~32m
GR22 while Standing Moving: ~32m

GR22 will deal more damage and require one fewer bullet to kill, but it also starts at worse CoF, so it evens out in the end.

GR22 while Standing Still: ~40m (25% better)

As mentioned, GR22 can reach further when the user can afford to stay immobile.

Average Horizontal Deviation. This is the objective measure of weapon's horizontal recoil stability.
NS-7: 0.204 (0.497 maximum)
GR22: 0.217 (0.570 maximum) ~6% worse on average.

GR22 is slightly less stable.

Vertical Recoil Per Second. This is mostly about comfort than actual accuracy, until we start talking about extremely high values, or very long range, or a combination of high Vertical Recoil per shot and low Rate of Fire, that makes recoil choppy, like in the case of Gauss SAW, which actually has low vertical recoil per second, but still notorious for harsh Vertical Recoil.

However, in case of relatively high RoF weapons and about average Vertical Recoil Per Second, it doesn't make much difference.

NS-7: 2.5
GR22: 3.33 (33% higher)

GR22 has more vertical recoil, but still well within acceptable levels, and about average for a primary weapon. SMGs in general have low VRPS, and NS-7 actually has one of the lowest VRPS values among primary weapons. Weapons where VRPS actually makes ranged shooting uncomfortable are weapons like CARV, which has VRPS of 5.

First Shot Recoil Multiplier. Low FSRM is always desirable to make recoil more smooth during bursting, though in the presence of low Vertical Recoil per shot, even high FSRM is acceptable.
NS-7: 1.5x (0.3 absolute)
GR22: 3x (0.75 absolute)

No way to sugar coat it, GR22 has it much worse. It can be played around by lowering initial aiming point, but that's gonna be tough to do, because how much you need to lower aim will vary depending on range. NS-7 will have easier time bursting.

Damage per Mag @ 40m.
NS-7: 3360 (4480 with Ext. Mags)
GR22: 3720

About even, depending on which way you go with NS-7's rail attachment. I have an auraxium with all SMGs available to TR, except for Tengu, and NS-7 is one of my favorite SMGs, specifically due to longest effective range. And by "favorite" I mean it was by far the least frustrating to auraxium. From my experience, even without Ext. Mags, NS-7 has enough damage per mag to reliably kill an enemy at range, even a HA - assuming decent accuracy, of course.

Armistice, Eridani, MKV Suppressed and Tengu will struggle at range without Ext. Mags. Others should be fine in that regard.

Projectile Velocity. Higher velocity makes it easier to hit moving targets, requires less compensation for bullet drop, and makes ranged combat more pleasant in general. SPA assumed on both weapons.
NS-7: 380 m/s (400 base)
GR22: 570 m/s (600 base) 50% better.

This doesn't matter as much at the mentioned threshold of 40m, though it has a significant effect on weapon's ability to reach further than that. Once again, NS-7 has the best velocity among SMGs, others will be at even bigger disadvantage.

Analysis for Ranged Combat. GR22 deals more damage and has higher velocity. Horizontal stability is roughly the same. More vertical recoil, but still can be easily compensated for. GR-22 has worse burst fire due to higher FSRM and worse starting CoF, but due to better Bloom Per Point of Damage Done, it doesn't have to burst as much. Almost one tier higher bullet damage is also very important for ranged combat.

Final Vertict: NS-7 has the longest effective range among SMGs, and even then it has roughly the same or worse parameters when it comes to ranged combat. I call that NS-7 is worse at range than GR22. Other SMGs aren't even in the realm of contest.


II. Traits important for CQC:
I'm gonna take 10m as baseline.

Damage per second. The objective measure of weapon's damage output. I dislike using TTK for comparing weapons, because TTK assumes too much - aiming point and target health, while DPS is universal. High DPS is always important, but especially for CQC. It determines how often are you forced to go for headshots just to have competitive TTK.
NS-7: 1563
GR22: 1907 (22% better)

NS-7 has the lowest DPS among SMGs, the gap won't be so big when comparing with other SMGs, though other CQC primaries usually edge them out.

Standing Moving Hip CoF. The most likely hip firing stance. Initial hip CoF is very helpful when going for hip fire headshots, and it also determines how much you have to burst fire.

NS-7: 1.5 (0.9 with ALS)
GR22: 2.25 (1.35 with ALS, which is standard).

Both weapons have excellent hip fire accuracy. Advantage here depends on where you go with NS-7's rail attachment. My personal preference is ALS on most SMGs, including NS-7.

Hip CoF Bloom per point of damage done. Same principle as for ranged combat.
NS-7: 4.00^-4 (0.05 absolute)
GR22: 6,99-4 (0.1 absolute) ~74% worse

SMGs are notorious for their ability to sustain accurate fire from the hip. It's their main defining quality, so naturally all SMGs will be at an advantage here. Other CQC primaries have to burst fire more outside very close ranges.

One-burst distance according to Angular Size Research. Same principle as for ranged combat. SPA on both weapons.
NS-7: 10m
NS-7 with ALS: ~17m
GR22 with ALS: ~9m

Roughly equal, unless you go with ALS for the SMG. I recommend to use most SMGs with ALS to make hip fire headshots viable more often. This is necessary, because most SMGs simply don't have raw DPS to kill enemies with bodyshots, which is why I say SMGs take a lot of skill to use, and a big part of why I say they're bad weapons.

Rate of Fire. High RoF in CQC helps to apply damage consistently.
NS-7: 750
GR22: 800

Mentioning this mostly for the sake of completeness. All automatic CQC weapons usually have high RoF.

Damage Per Mag @ 10m.
NS-7: 3750 (5000 with Ext. Mags)
GR22: 4290

This is something that's gonna vary a lot between different SMGs and other CQC primaries. Most SMGs will have smaller DPM on average, especially without Ext. Mags.


Analysis of CQC. GR22 deals much higher DPS, but loses in initial and sustained accuracy.

Both hip fire accuracy and DPS are important.Hip fire accuracy allows to go for headshots and still have a competitive TTK while being much safer due to mobility. DPS allows to overpower the enemy, and kill squishy targets with bodyshots, and push through HA overshields with headshots. However, DPS is universal, while taking advantage of accuracy requires skill.

If anything, excessive hip fire accuracy can be bad, because it with larger CoF you can spray shots over enemy's hitbox, while with super tight CoF you have to be very deliberate about crosshair placement.

CQC primaries usually go with ALS, and can more or less compete with SMGs in hip fire accuracy within 10m, and I would say this is a cut off point. Better hip fire is welcome, but not super important. While DPS is always relevant.

SMG is better when you want to hip fire a running infiltrator 20m away. When you're going against a Heavy Assault within 10m, you want to have good hip fire accuracy and maximum DPS to dodge his fire and overpower his shields. Anything further than that, and you have to ADS anyway, whether you're using SMG or not, and a higher DPS weapon will be better.

Verdict for CQC. SMGs are only competitive within 20m, and even then require headshots to have competitive TTK. CQC primaries at the very least not worse than SMGs in CQC, through superior DPS and sometimes DPM.

III. Final Verdict.
CQC primaries can compete with SMGs in CQC, and they have about twice as long effective range through a combination of most relevant stats. There are situations where an SMG would be more desirable, but they are far and between. Overall, CQC primaries edge out SMGs, though the difference won't be that huge if you cherry pick weapons and situations.

IV. Honorable Mention of 75% ADS.
All SMGs have it, some of the CQC primaries have it too, though, including the mentioned GR-22, and they usually pay for it in ADS Stand Move CoF and recoil stability. It's always nice to have, but it's not a defining weapon trait, you won't always be able to take advantage of it. It helps to survive, but it doesn't help to kill. It's a point in favor of SMGs, but not enough to push them into the realm of viability. Their problem isn't so much in CQC, but in ranged performance.

^ Sorry, I messed up some of the numbers. Here are the correct ones:

NS-7 damage at 40m: 113
GR22: 119 ~5% higher

NS-7 DPS: 1413
GR22 DPS: 1587 ~12% higher

That somewhat reduces GR22's advantage over NS-7 in damage at range, but it's still an advantage, and other SMGs will face a much bigger gap.

Damage per Mag @ 40m.
NS-7: 3390 (4520 with Ext. Mags)
GR22: 3570

Also slightly shifts advantage towards NS-7 with Ext. Mags, though it's not a combination that I usually recommend, because NS-7 can't afford it, in my opinion. Due to very low DPS, the user is forced to go for hip fire headshots in CQC. I don't really like ADSing within 10m. It works with Tengu due to pellet spread, won't be so nice with NS-7.

These guides are always great fun to read. thanks for your work.

Why a shotgun would have different pellet spread for hip and ADS makes no sense to me. it is the same gun in either circumstance.

I assume you know what shotgun choke is? Variable chokes exist even today. It's not hard to imagine that in the future there would be semi-automatic chokes, that would adjust the choke when the user presses a button somewhere on the gun. Or even fully automatic, adjusting choke constriction based on distance to the target.

Good analysis. However, based on this analysis, it seems like a bit of a stretch to call one of those weapons "objectively better" than the other. For example, you mentioned how looser hipfire CoF can be an advantage for spraying down your target. This, however, is ultimately a playstyle preference; some folks like myself prefer pinpoint hipfire accuracy (think Tanto) for getting headshots and for making hipfire viable out to longer ranges. Other benefits, like higher horizontal stability, less recoil, and better FSRM, as you mentioned the PDW has, are certainly important for many players. I personally find the horizontal stability and low FSRM of the PDW make it far more effective at accurate burstfire for myself.
Damage per mag is certainly important, but I would argue that magazine 'burn rate' is an important factor as well. The GR22 fires very fast, and in order to get, say, two kills from a magazine, you'd need to use 15 or fewer bullets per target. On paper, this seems like plenty, but the '22 being a bullet hose, many players will find themselves emptying a majority of the mag on a single kill. The PDW, even though it requires the same shots to kill, fires slower and has 10 extra rounds, allowing players to be more meticulous in their ammo usage. It seems far more likely, in a real-world heated engagement, to be able to score multiple kills with this weapon.
Finally, there is the hipfire performance, which you noted had significantly better sustained CoF on the PDW. The "one burst distance" figure is a great concept, but it's prettty theoretical when talking about actual hot engagements. In all likelyhood, the GR22 user will need to squeeze off several sequential bursts if they are hipfiring at a midrange target (and if they want to actually hit that target). The PDW user could very likely sustain-fire them down in the same window, or at least burst far less. This eliminates the GR22's only real advantage in this matchup: DPS.
0.75x ADS is also a user preference. I really appreciate the overall mobility of SMGs, which includes another advantage that I forgot to mention: SMGs all have very fast equip times. This can be very important for players who like to switch weapons often. Or if you're caught with your pants down and have your utility item out.
Based on your analysis, the benefits afforded by the GR22 are DPS and.. well, that's it, really? Rate of fire, perhaps (if you're prone to missing shots).
That's certainly a good benefit, but it sounded to me like the PDW was equal or had an adventage in every other regard. (Correct me if I'm wrong). And since a lot of these things can be more or less important based on user preference, I really don't think it could be said the the GR22 is 'objectively' better than the PDW.

Also, just fyi, the term "cherry picking" applies to an induction fallacy, i.e. if I were trying to argue that "All SMGs are better than all CQC primaries." However, I'm arguing against your claim that all SMGs are objectively worse than all CQC primaries. Me picking a matchup that disproves this is not "cherry picking", but rather a proof by contradiction.

Yes, I know about choke. Why would someone adjust choke if it was to their disadvantage?

i don't understand ? Iridar51 says the Tengu will probably receive some buffs in the future
but this smg seems OP to me, played only for 4 to 8 hours with it but it's a beast for my play style
now Iridar51, you are my goeroe if i need weapon stats and how to play with them for best results but i think you're missing something here
in CQC i use it from the hip, for mid range i use the iron sight
for some reason the iron sight is better than scopes for me and this is where the Tengu excelled for me in those little hours i played with it
to be completely honest, if i am overwhelmed with enemies and need to fight of more then one player, there are better choices of weapons out, but in one vs one 15 to 25 meters it wrecks HA's with no problem (only used the Tengu on my infill)
now i am a average veteran player with little surround awareness but this weapon rocked my day playing with it

Game balancing, mostly.

I have a hard time seeing the difference. If you admit that 8 out of 9 SMGs are objectively worse than CQC primaries, then we're done here. Waters are muddy enough to be able to make preferential arguments regarding NS-7.

In a game with no physics and an infinite number of engagement variables, balance is impossible.

Anyway, great guide. You're efforts are appreciated.