remove or nerf fire suppression

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by dreyone, Jan 30, 2017.

  1. LaughingDead


    25% on a flash or esf =/= 25% on a max or MBT. The levels are different for a good reason.
  2. Ziggurat8

    I'll answer your question about why vehicle FS is only half of ESF fire suppression. Engineer repair. Imagine having a tank with 25% FS. You pop it, hop out and begin repair, in the time FS is done plus your rep tool you've healed close to 40%. You just can't physically do that in an ESF. Not to mention bailing out of a vehicle to survive or repair is possible at any time in any circumstance. Again, not possible in an ESF. You have be a LA or use ejection seat, which are trade offs.

    It's my opinion, but that is the reason air FS should repair more than ground. As for why the other air vehicles don't get 25%, it's probably due to health and resistances. FS gives you similar results on a liberator and even better results on a gal despite repairng only half the percentage. As for FS on a flash...I had no idea it was even an option and have never considered it, you're usually dead before the flash is... You're right though Flash FS should heal 50% at least.

    I still maintain the opinion that FS isn't overpowered on ESF, there just aren't any alternatives really worth using. I used to use engagement radar, they made that standard. Lock ons are mostly an annoyance so I don't bother with flares and ejection seat, well, I do use it but only with half priced air that I plan on throwing away. That leaves scout radar which can be handy but there's other options that do the same thing. Even nerfing FS to 12% like every other vehicle it would still be on my ESF 99% of the time.
  3. stalkish

    You were saying:

    ^j/k

    But seriously, fair point, but it could be used the other way.
    An ESF can run off a hell of a lot more easily than a ground vehicle, infact a ground vehicle cannot run off at all from an ESF. So id argue that the ESF should get less help with its repairs since it can easily remove itself from AA fire, and outrun the other aircraft. The only time it cannot outrun its opponent is when an A2A ESF shows up, but even then its possible to evade back to warpgate most of the time.
    Also the ESFs gets auto-nanites from using engineer.
    Id point out aswel that the other air vehicles share this engineer repair limitation, but they do not get the 25% FS repair bonus.

    So not only can an ESF can get back to its invulnerable wargate, and repair without any risk what-so-ever in less than 30 seconds from pretty much anywhere on a cont, it actualy starts getting repaired while falling back. Other vehicles do not get this bonus either.
    The ESF gets a hell of a lot of help to repair, without actualy having to get out and repair like the others do, so id say its already more than compensated for not being able to 'repair limp' to cover.

    Thats the whole point the OP was making, FS is too powerful compared to the other options so no1 uses the others.
    Theoretical question:
    If FS was removed, or an update broke it and you couldnt select it, what would you use instead?
    My guess is 'that depends on what im doing' would be your answer. This suggests that the options are indeed sidegrades to each other, and balanced in terms of the power gain they offer.

    TBH, its quite a minor thing, and despite my long winded posts, i dont really have a strong feeling one way or the other about it.
    But like a lot of things in this game it does make me go o_O, and it was an interesting topic of conversation for me.
    I did jump a little to my own defense aswel in a previous post, can you blame me really, we are on the PS2 forums afterall?
    • Up x 2
  4. Crayv

    Fire suppression is like the old nanoweave (it used to give a flat bonus to health), too good for every situation.
    • Up x 1
  5. DemonicTreerat

    Argument invalid.

    You seem to forget that just by being in the cockpit an engineer repairs their ESF. That does NOT hold true to any other sort of vehicle. Yet ESF's get a better repair on top of all their other advantages.

    Really its simple. Fire Suppression should fix a flat 10% of the vehicles health regardless of vehicle type and put out any fire with higher ranks just lowering the cooldown. Period. End of discussion. If that amount isn't enough then its a pretty good indication that you ****** up real bad and aren't going to be able to just a press a button to salvage the situation. Which is what a lot of air-****** seem to want; a button they can press whenever they screw up that rewinds the fight.

    Of course air ****** will whine up a storm about having their crutch taken away. Just like they whined about thermals.
  6. adamts01

    That's not a solid argument, because max hit points on a flash or esf =/= that of a MBT for a good reason. Each vehicle is give a certain amount of toughness to compensate for the ease in which it takes damage. There's really no good reason an ESF should receive 1/4 of it's health back when a tank gets 1/6. This is especially true when compared to the ESF's other options in slot, which are entirely neglected but honestly don't deserve a buff. The only logical solution is to nerf its fire suppression.
  7. Tankalishious

    Why does people complain about fire suppression at all?
    OP started with "because people spam it" and give people in-air godmode.
    Well, we all know that is utter ********, maxed out its 25% every 45 sec.
    Burning through a fire surpession with a nose gun is ridiculously easy as long as you can aim. And if you cant take out 25% of an ESF in 45 secs, you need to do something about your aim.

    But, let's say we remove FS. What will happen then?
    The same airgods that wipe the floor with 98% of the rest of the player base in air combat, will still come out on top since most of the ESFs use it.....

    I cant think of one single good pilot that cries about FS, because their aim is good enough to negotiate the FS with ease, or at best, prolong the fight with a few seconds.

    Regarding A2G, the inly thing that will change is the prolonged base hoovering siege. Pilots will run stealth and adapt a hit and run attack mode that will decrease time over base, and take out 1 or 2 guys per strafe. A strafe that will occur about every 15 seconds.
    Doesnt sound too tempting to fight if i was on the ground. At least with a hoover siege, i can coordinate a double burster max setup or 3 heavies with G2A for more or less instant kill.
  8. LordKrelas

    Yes his aim is apparently crap, as is recharge bit.

    However, say you do get a hit on an ESF, the fastest and most agile target - It doesn't have to care unless it exploded.
    Fire-suppression or not.
    However, that is unless it was sent into the red-zone, then Fire-suppression restores a 4th of the entire health pool.
    For Hover ESFs, in a game where standing still is death, this just adds a protective measure.
    For intelligent ESFs already doing the bombing runs, the long-range slaughter, it protects them from all but 1-shot kills most of the time.

    Not to mention, the ESF costs the same as a Lightning or close enough, but takes 2 Burster Maxes, or 3 G2A heavies while staying still.
    That's two maxes practically useless beyond light aircraft, and easily slaughtered by the same aircraft.
    And three heavies out of the fight, using pure G2A, easily slaughtered as well.
    Assuming not at the spawn room, that's a coordinated assault easily stopped, evaded or prevented by the singular aircraft.

    While multiple ESFs do not need to coordinate between each other to take out targets with best efficiency.
    Even Lightnings do, to get best results - And take less nanites to kill.

    So consider how much easier it would be, for ESFs to not hover & profit if they didn't have the magical fix-it button.
    (I'm mostly talking about G2A here, A2A obviously Nose-guns have no issue if you can aim)
  9. adamts01

    There's no reason for the ESF to have double the fire suppression of everything else. Secondly, radar and flares are really good options, but pale in usefulness to fire suppression. The other options don't need to be buffed, so the only logical solution is to put fire suppression on par with everything else in the game.
  10. DeadAlive99

    I see ESF's pop flares all the time. A lot of pilots, like me, are either not good enough to beat missiles without flares, or just don't want to hassle with it.

    That is the best idea. Just make it passive like engagement radar.
  11. DeadAlive99

    So much hate for sunderers, when they are the number one battle creator in the game! A forward spawn point should require teamwork to take out, not merely a lone wolfing, bunny hopping LA or an ESF pilot spewing hover-spam.

    Without the sundy ams, there is no freaking battle! They need to be tough, and without the shield they are weak as h**l, and most people don't even run the shield. If you really want a sundy down, then it should require teamwork. Unfortunately, it usually doesn't. One dude can swat them like flies unless it's the shield sundy.
    • Up x 1
  12. LaughingDead

    They aren't dwarfed, they are simply not used. Flares for example, there are only a handful of weapons that do lock and fire, they are potent and in some situations you might want to take it, but far more often you'll want FS even if you can disrupt locks every 20 seconds (not adding the immunity time of 8 seconds and stealth delaying the lock) because ESFs fight more than just the occasional lock, the number one threat to an ESF is another ESF, nothing but FS in the utility slot actually helps combat other ESFs, that's literally the only reason people run it, well that and to help avoid peck damage from bad flak aim. Tanks comparatively because of their armor actually heal about the same amount of damage, while FS for the ESF seems like a large boost, its because it's on a fragile vehicle, if anything, flashes FS should be buffed to 50% :p
    • Up x 1
  13. LordKrelas

    If it was standard, that would just be scary.
    Imagine it, an ESF with flares, fire-supression, and engagement radar.
    Or Stealth, FS, and the standard radar.

    While FS is not all that bad (even if it enhances survival, but that's kinda the point), having it & engagement radar (which is only standard on ESFs) would grant ESFs one of the most used abilities on the ground & sky by default.
    Allowing 3 of their ability slots to be used at once, rather than the present two.
    That, and imagine the Combos, like I said earlier in this specific post:
    Flares, FS; Best of both worlds... now that would be hellish.

    Flares have their uses.
    FS has uses.
    But FS as a default built-in would be just....hell.
  14. Jamuro

    The problem realy isn't with fire sup.

    Sure it's versatile and boosts your survival chances quite a bit, but it isn't as impactfull as people claim it is.
    It sure as he** doesn't make you an invincible killing machine like people here suggest and given the fragile nature of esfs it actually gives you less effective hp than what an mbt can gain from it (especially once you add repairs while your tank slowly creeps behind a rock)


    The real problem imo are the flares.
    They just aren't good enough.

    For one they are a highly specialised counter measure that has to compete with an all round solution (fs).
    So bad start here.
    Add to that the fact that for the most part flares will only help you against one volley per engagement and you end up with a bad excuse of a wasted slot.



    But it honestly isn't difficult to fix.

    1. give flares 3 charges, but reduce the immunity time by half
    That means you have to be a bit more cautious about when you activate then (not as soon as you hear beeping) and it gives people with lockon launchers at least a chance to land short range shots or overcome the flares if the pilot either came in without a full load or panics and wastes some.

    2. flares need to be usefull in a2a battles too
    Change flares so that they are a non damaging projectile that flies in the launched direction or behind the esf for the duration of the lockon immunity.
    And finaly let the flare show up on the minimap as an enemy esf.

    This way you can use them in actuall a2a fights too.
    For example during turns and whenever you are in your enemies blind spot, this version of the flares is very likley to buy you some extra time.

    It won't do a lot against people with months and months of experience but if done right it can buy you some precious seconds.

    Enough time to either compensate for a bad version of a turn or to capitalise on the extra second or two your enemy now needs to get you back in his sights.

    And given that you have up to 3 of them it now makes close range manouvers somewhat feasible.
    At least if you know that your enemy has problems with keeping track of people that leave his screen.
    (Which btw is quite tough for new and many experienced pilots alike)
  15. adamts01

    So tanks and ESFs essentially heal for the same amount of hit points. And you think that's a good thing? ESFs have speed for armor, and tanks have armor for armor. Giving ESFs hitpoints and speed is part of the problem with this game.
  16. LaughingDead

    No, I think tanks are just not impressive and underperform. ESFs can zip away, that's their escape route, tanks escapes or outs are be in a good spot and peck something to death or have constant lib countering air support and a way to counter tanks and infantry all at the same time. ESFs can fight other ESFs, kill tanks and infantry albeit less effective without afterburns verses air targets but none the less, tanks are pretty much only good for killing other tanks comparatively for the nanites it takes verses other options, ESFs are in a good spot, ground vehicles aren't.
  17. dreyone



    I don't hate sunderers and if you think what I wrote is somehow implying that I think sunderers should be removed you have grossly misinterpreted my post.[/quote]