[Vehicle] Curious to everyone's thoughts on A2G

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Vanvino, May 14, 2017.

  1. Vanvino

    Plain and simple, currently, how viable do you feel air to ground combat is on a scale of 1-5.
    1 being just nose dive straight into the ground and just end it all.
    5 being "1 vs. 96+? Dont worry guys, I got this base."
  2. Tankalishious

    You cant scale it due to too many variables.

    Super viable if infantry and vehicles on the ground are maxed out stevie wonders and Hellen Kellers. Just one heavy with G2A, one burster max or one vehicle with walker or ranger, and A2G is not worth it.
    • Up x 2
  3. LordKrelas

    Depends entirely on if there is a crap load of AA, as otherwise it's as viable the pilot is willing.
    Singular G2A isn't able to actually survive aircraft, nor down one by itself.
    But yeah, So maybe a 3-4?
    (5 happens, if there isn't enough AA to drown out the sun, aka kill a Liberator or ESF before it racks up kills and \ or retreats)
    (edit: And 1 happens when AA is enough to drown out the sun, but that usually takes a 96+ with 30 units of AA...)


    Evidence?
    Try a Burster max, see what happens when any aircraft (or ground unit for that matter) Notices you aren't in a spawn room.
    Try a Skyguard, without any allied AA (Or target a liberator, and watch the Grim Reaper fly towards you)
    Try a Sundy with dual Walkers (Often better results than Rangers), and have a 50% chance to get better results than a Skyguard.
    Infantry G2A? Unless in a spawnroom, or a cluster-**** , that ain't gonna be likely a kill let alone by yourself.

    TTK on all AA is quite small, compared to TTK on the same aircraft.
    Just don't over exert your aircraft, and you "won't" die * Not guaranteed, but incredibly simple to avoid.
    Aka same as a tank, expect you have the speed to outrun anything but yourself, all the way to a warpgate without any possible obstruction.
    • Up x 3
  4. Crayv

    I really don't like the glass cannon approach they have taken when it comes to aircraft. You basically annihilate the air or it annihilates you and there is no in-between. Since aircraft are the fastest vehicles in the game and can fly over terrain it means they can appear anywhere, from any direction, and without warning. This means they always need to be on the weaker side of balance (aircraft get annihilated).
    • Up x 1
  5. Eternaloptimist

    I have had what some people seem to think is unusually high success with my G2A lock on, although it takes patience and careful selection of taergets. And yesterday I got my first try on the Ranger since it was changed. 2 Mossies attacked the Sundy I was in...........and two Mossies died. Holy cow! that thing is awesome at close range.

    Basically, an esf that gets in range is one dead esf. Libs seem to be more likely to survive but I see much less death from above nowadays. So, as a mere ground pounder I'd have to say A2G is probably unrewarding now as so few pilots seem to try it (or survive it).
    • Up x 1
  6. LaughingDead

    I'd say 2-3. Soon as AA starts cropping up you simply stop and move on or risk being destroyed. It's the same with tanks, if there's a lib in the area you make countermeasures for that lib, you don't just stick around. Rockets and bursters, since they both are often used from spawn (which is kinda stupid, both that you're able to lock without risk and that I always expect it) are a threat you cannot remove. Depending on the fight, skyguard means leave, AA bus might not because it's generally getting hunted by heavies, harassers if you're using the default you might be able to kill them without sustaining too much damage, heavies can one shot you if you're not keeping your distance, multiple locks or even one lock can mean leave, AA aircraft generally mean leave or if you have default then you should try to kill them on the way out and if you're running pods you won't be able to leave if it gives chase, lib with dalton generally means leave.

    People are generally frustrated because better A2G users follow these rules and try not to die. Which is funny considering your main goal in literally all other parts of the game is not to die while supporting your team. So yea, it's not good, but in some cases it can change a fight, people STILL DONT FUGGIN TRY TO FIGHT IT.
    • Up x 1
  7. Campagne

    I'd say 3-4.

    Aircraft can up and leave any ground fight in seconds, and have a number of viable options to greatly increase life expectancy. All the while, they have near-instant to literally instant TTKs against infantry and can be nigh untouchable by non-AA ground vehicles.

    Maybe a couple of really good Gals and/or Libs could reach a 5.0 for a little while.
    • Up x 1
  8. RadarX

    Make sure you've taken a look at the upcoming changes on the test server. We're looking for feedback from folks who have tested it.
    • Up x 1
  9. No0T

    The truth is that the aircrafts are to slovv and to fragile.. minor bullets should not get them above certain altitude...
    • Up x 1
  10. HisokaTheRed

    I think the ranger was overbuff but as an ESF pilot the only thing I hate coming from the ground is G2A lock-on.

    All the ceiling really low on many part of the continents. I pulled a sycthe from Crown recently and as soon as I rendered, I was getting locked on, the source was from ceres hydroponic's spawnroom. Infantry DO NOT RENDER for me unless I'm at 200m near them, G2A lock-on range is 450m, do the math. Lets not even mention Amerish at night, might as well be invisible. He/it also respawns ad infinitum for no nanite cost.

    With the upcoming buffs to G2A launcher LOCK-ON speed(1.5 second now I believe) and a much faster reload times and more ammo. Abeit ranges are 350m, meaning if you are defending a sunday/tower base. No esf can fly in that bubble if there is even 2 heavy with lockons. If it still take 2 Rockets to burn an ESF, I can say if its intended A2G might be dead. Of course I assume it might be intended for A2G to have to run flares now, but that mean A2A with FS cannot chase an A2G esf into his flak, so once again A2A will suffer because of an intended nerf to A2G.

    Remember when they changed coyotes to do 50% of your health in one clip and actual pilots was saying that was a bad idea? This will be similiar to that.



    On the other hand, when I play infantry I know how to position myself well enough to actually get kills with the anilhilator/skyguard. New player are getting farmed because they don't know that the fight is over when there are 4 ESF buzzing around the spawn room. You have to retreat and regroup at this point, its not that A2G is overwhelmingly OP or good, people are just stupid when dealing with it. I also thank the star when I tank on NC and someone is doing G2A, thats why I perferably stick with the zerg to avoid air.


    The above does not apply to Libs. I don't actively hate them, they are just to tanky to kill in a small fight but melts in anything larger then a 24+ so its frustrating to deal with a good lib crew.

    So a 3?(4 if Grisha is on)(5 if we have indar)
  11. Demigan

    Between 1 to 5. With most battles ranging between 4 or 5.

    Most of the time, g2a is reactive, and even then its usually minimal with 1 to 3 players doimg g2a. With most g2a targets I'm the one farming them rather than the other way around until they go away, and if g2a is heavy or tough to deal with (multiple Skyguards and walker sundies) I can usually attack by flying low for an attack or by dropping from the sky ceiling and be on my way out by the time they open fire.
    Or you can just relocate to a battle with less g2a, which is a testament to how lobsided the game is. The fact that aircraft actually can look for fights with little g2a is unbalanced as hell and completely ruins fights that dont have enough players willing to screw themselves over by equipoing g2a.

    Considering the immense power of a2g, both compared to ground equivalents and the amount of viable g2a weapons that are used at any one time, a2g is massively OP. If the game didnt have the inverted skill curve for a2a it would dominate everything. Not that this situation is any better because now the farmtools are available to only a select small group that immediately takes an elitist stance.


    As for the current status of PTS weapons. If the aircraft versions havent been changed since two updates (and I saw no mention of them being changed) then the aircraft weapons are OP again.
    How sad is it that the AI oriented rocketpods are better at AV than the Hornets, and that Hornets already have the power for killing an MBT in a single run? Noseguns have gotten more powerful as well, and the early gameplay of Noseguns murdering vehicles should absolutely not return.
    • Up x 1
  12. DeadlyOmen

    In a combined arms game with an infinite number of variables, it is impossible to scale anything.
  13. Demigan

    Its fully possible to scale everything.
    You assume the maximum damage output of the amount of players you expect to Engage the target. Done! This creates the balanced damage output you need.

    Otherwise the consequences of your inane babbling is "well the old ZOE shouldnt be changed, you cant take in alk the variables!". Ofcourse you dont need all the variables, you can just take a look at how effective it is and change something, gauge what effect this has, then keep changing it until it has the effectiveness you want.

    Now stop trolling.
    • Up x 1
  14. DeadlyOmen

    How many players? What weapons? What is the status of the target both in hit points remaining and degree of attention spent on each attacker?

    You need only answer with an estimated exponential re: number of possible equations using only the above parameters. I suggest factoring the maximum number of potential attackers, maximum number of possible weapons, the complete range of hit points the target may have, and the number of viewing angles the target may have (360 will do for this exercise).

    For extra credit, you may also factor in the amount of time each attacker spends attacking, the accuracy of the attack, and the rate of target's hit point depletion per each attacker.

    I am sorry that some aspects of the game frighten you. Others find it challenging.

    Censorship via humiliation does not work on adults. I look forward to the exponent estimate.
  15. adamts01

    A2G isn't terrible, 2-4 depending on the fight, but G2A is cancerous for both sides. G2A mechanics need to be completely reworked. And 1/2 off air needs to be abolished.
    • Up x 1
  16. Demigan

    I understand that such things are hard to understand for you. Just one example how tank canons are changed right now. They change the range so that the vehicles are less likely to be effective at range. They even have calculated what range they would be effective on!

    As for how many players. On average you can assume a 1:1 scenario. Even if players focus-fire on a single target, then it would also means some targets aren't being fired at.

    The status of the target depends on how much he's been hit. But to start off you always assume 100% health. That's how they start, and that's the most common health denomination you'll encounter at the start of every fight due to healing, the likelyhood of surviving and repairs that can be issued.

    That's all of the answers. I know that these kind of things are hard to understnad for you, but please try to keep up with the simple things.

    Actually I don't. You are making things far more complex than they are because you don't understand it. There's no reason to make an estimated exponential of anything. You don't even know what you mean by that!

    Also if that "estimated exponential" were true, then no game would be possible because there's no way to balance it. Since there are games possible and most of them are more or less balanced, your point is mute.

    Oh oh, here's another concept you hadn't thought off: Distance! Yeah! Distance also has an infinite amount of pieces in between right? So there's another infinite amount of variables right there! oh noes the impossibility!

    Wait, what? You just go about screaming your head off how frighteningly large some numbers are by making up exponentials that don't exist, and then you blame me for being frightened? You aren't even trying!

    Actually it's one of the most effective things that works on adults. Being socially outcast through humiliation is in fact so strong that in the past people have pleaded for their whippings to happen early in the morning when few people were up rather than have the punishment be less severe simply because the fear of social repercussions. Also you were just using censorship via humiliation by saying the game frightens me. So you are a hypocrite to boot!

    Now unless you have something substantial to say, I'm not going to mess up this thread any more with replying to you.
    • Up x 2
  17. DeadlyOmen

    The exponent, please.
  18. BadCoding

    Air units can effectively area spam farm infantry which is a thing I'd remove by making these weapons either deal no more or only very minor area effect damage, forcing the ESFs to actually aim.

    ESFs on the other hand should gain flares as standard gear they always have but such used as selectable weapon slot with limited ammo, forcing them to reload them after some time. These flares shouldn't work like the current ones which just get rid of all lock-ons and block them for some time but create spheres the ESF has to leave to make lock-ons drop targeting on the ESF for some time and already fired lock-on missiles lose target. The currently available flares should then still be available as equipment in their current form as extra.

    That's what I'd change for ESFs currently.

    No complaints considering the Valkyre.

    Liberators should really decide what kind of aircraft they want to be and be designed in a proper way. Currently they're something between a Harrier (no actual jet flight mechanic), a Thunderbolt (nose gun) and a Spectre Gunship (downwards aiming guns).
    I'd most likely turn them into an actual version of a Spectre Gunship, suitable for fire support at long range with limited ammo and requiring some kind of air base to be able to start / land.

    The Galaxy doesn't fit the game anymore. Aside from flying high up, alone, passive, taking advantage of the not-being-able-to-aim-up-90° issue for squad spawns they aren't really useful. Just ramming and their health pool benefit them but not their design.
    I'd equip them with stealth modules as passive, always installed equipment that can be upgraded with certs, lasting long, recharging fast, allowing to position one Galaxy without too much hassle. Stealth wouldn't allow spawns but the other support options (repair, rearm) to take effect on allies while having one downside: Increase damage taken from all sources by a good amount but only while stealth is active. That way these huge, slow things could move around somewhat unseen (still trackable by hostile ESF radar, unless using the max rank stealth module). The weapons for this thing should be unique and only offer close range or huge range options with nothing in-between with each manned turret buffing the other turrets in damage output so that a fully manned Galaxy is something worth the effort but a single seat user doesn't get the potential actual teamplay offers.

    Urgently remove I'd air ramming. I'd just cause this to deal 0 damage so that large aircraft can't just ram smaller ones and would have to use their crew and weapons instead.
  19. DeadlyOmen

    You should check out air to ground weaponry. Area of Effect is a big deal.

    Zero damage on a ram? I remember when Air Warrior instituted that. Perhaps one of the first moves online gaming made towards the dark ages.
  20. LordKrelas

    I think he's worried about the Galaxy ramming things in the sky Cloaked, since it also has the hit-pool to just ram ESFs to death with no gunners.
    If I had to guess.