The new implant system is the work of evil genius

Came back to planetside 2 after 4 months break and was surprised by the new implant system. My 10k backup certs on 3 chars melts away and I hasn't even unlocked everything yet. Suddenly I went from not caring about certs to needing them. Thats not the genius part of the implant system though.

Consider what happen when DBG release more and more implants, each more powerful than the last. The power players, the completionist will feel like they HAVE to get those latest implants. In theory, if all implants have equal drop rate, the probability of NOT getting a specific implant that you want is (11 / 12) ^ 9 = 46%. So 750 certs will give you a reasonable, 54% chance of getting a specific implant that you want.

However lets say, the number of implants increases to 20. The probability of NOT getting a specific implant had just raise to (19/20) ^ 9 = 63%. A player will need to buy 15 implants, (19/20) ^ 15 = 46%, to reach the previous 46% probability.

While this system solve the problem of vets having too much certs, I am sad that DBG is resorting to such means to get more money out of players.

TLDR:
Cost of getting an implant that you want will increase as the number of implants increases. DBG will release more and every increasing powerful implants so that players will chase the carrots and exhaust all their certs, raising the demand for DB cash, earning them more revenue.

So, what made you want the implants in the first place?

As I mention above, power gamer, completionist. Having an implant vs not having means a minor difference in power. If it is possible to get that power increase, why not? Completionist, just like directives, it is a goal to complete, except that unlike directives, this goal can be gambled for using real money.

There's your problem, right there. Once I got regen and battle hardened and upgraded both to at least tier 3 I stopped bothering.

The thing is, the chances of getting a specific implant isn't the same for all implants. With Counter-Intelligence and Minor Cloak you only have a chance of 0,05% of getting them. Chances for Battle Hardened and Cat-Like for example are also quite low.

Take a look at this thread:

https://forums.daybreakgames.com/ps...o-new-implants-analysis-p2w-confirmed.245291/

and this thread:

https://forums.daybreakgames.com/ps2/index.php?threads/any-get-counter-intel-or-minor-cloak.245292/


I got really lucky i got the Counter-Intelligence implant with my fourth deluxe implant pack. Quite nice implant i have to say.

Even more evil than I expect then.

Ah, the temptation isn't high enough for you yet it seems? Not saying they will, but what if they release an implant that doubles your gun's damage, with a 0.0001% drop rate? Of course they will not be that blatant, but as the player base shrinks and the pressure to monetize the existing player base grows, I am willing to bet that more and more "attractive" and "must have" implants will be released.

Oh yes, if something really tasty is released later I may want one and so I'll start buying some bundles until it drops. But I don't feel the need to have one of everything. I've got a few I never wanted just because random drops from each bundle. And I would like to have counterintelligence, but not enough to blow loads of certs rolling the dice in hope of getting it.

I guess the only upside of having more randomness as the number of implants increases will be that the ISO from converting duplicates will enable maxing out the ones I have already. It is a big jump to reach max tier atm although I did hear rumours of a plan to introduce other ways to collect ISO in-game.

The genius part of this system?
The original Implant system was designed as a new source of money. First by having players collect them through play or money, then keeping them operational through energy. But this system failed when most players had all the implants they wanted, and the energy system was so tedious to operate that many players never even used it, especially since the gains were very small.

So rather than make an entirely new way to earn money, and keep in mind that this game only prospers if it earns money for the developers so that's a good thing, they decided to repurpose the old implant system. This way they could hit 3 birds with one stone: They could remove the old sore of the energy system, they could give veteran players that cert-sink they asked for and they wouldn't have to build a completely new system that players would have to deal with. I mean we already have infantry, vehicles, aircraft, resources, infantry spawn rules, vehicle spawn rules based on facility control+type of terminal you are at, unlocking+upgrading+equipping various weapons and equipment, the entirety of the construction system tied to a single vehicle and the implants system. Would it really help the game to throw in another system? No it wouldn't.

Now since energy is removed, the devs needed something else to provide long-term money influx, and if it's going to be a long-term cert-sink then it needs to cost a lot of certs over extended periods of time. So they decided to go for both a long upgrade system as well as a long acquisition system. Now if they simply gave everyone who got all the implants in the old system those implants, the entire revamp would have failed from the start. Every half-veteran player would have more than half the implants already, meaning that only new players would have to cough up the money and certs. So there's absolutely no reason to give everyone their implants. Instead, they converted your old implants to the upgrade material. That's a pretty damn genius step right there.
For those "completionists", it's virtually impossible to buy and upgrade all the weapons and gear for half the vehicles already, let alone for all vehicles, aircraft and infantry. So adding another long-term system shouldn't tread on their toes. If you still feel that this is a problem, then that's your problem and not that of the developers. If they complied to your wishes, then 2/3rd of the purpose of the new system would fail immediately, IE the cert-sink and money making.

But how to make sure players don't just earn all implants in a week? By making it a chance to drop ofcourse! Fortunately, the rare implants are some of the more useless implants to get.
But how do you deal with new players then? Wouldn't they be severely behind players who did unlock more implants?
Ofcourse not! Because there's the most genius of genius of the entire system: It costs maybe 2250 certs to get enough variety in the implants and the first 3 levels are cheap enough that you can already upgrade at least two or three implants that far. And level 3 overall is more than powerful enough to be functional. Also compared to upgrading a vehicle like the Lightning or MBT, that's very cheap, just the basics of a new top gun and main gun plus a few upgrades costs you more. And unlike the vehicle upgrades, these implants can be used for all classes and even be used in vehicles! So your return on your investment is far larger.
And here's the kicker: Most of these implants are now actually useful. Most of them are useful quality of life improvements rather than direct combat boosts. So even if you didn't get that implant you like, you should be more than capable enough to equip a mixture of implants to suit your needs. And before long you'll stop moaning about Battle Hardened, and probably not even care when you do get it.
And here's another kicker: Buying upgrade points is basically a free shot at new implants. If I could have upgraded my vehicle and infantry weapons this way, I would have done it and loved it. A chance on a free weapon every time I want to buy a new laser sight or ammo upgrade? Hell yeah!


Actually now I'm at a loss, what was your "evil" genius here exactly? It seems mostly a rant that you didn't get the implant you wanted, despite more viable and useful implants strewn all over the place.


Edit:
Read this, implants can now also be earned through completing directives. Sounds like a good way to start! Will make the startup costs for newbies even easier as they need to buy less packs to get enough implants+levels to get started.
https://forums.daybreakgames.com/ps2/index.php?threads/pc-hotfix-5-11.245792/#post-3460325

You are mistaken about my intentions actually. Believe it or not, I do have the implants I want, regeneration and assimilate. I will be quite annoyed if not though. What prompt this post is when I read about how the new heavy assault implant on the PTS, which will give a heavy assault player quite an advantage and realized that when it come out, I will have to do this implant gambling all over again. I put two and two together and realize that releasing new powerful implants together with RNG chance that get worst and worst as more implants are released will make a devastating cert drain combination.

Did this system achieve the aim of draining certs?
Yes.

Is it necessary?
As a someone who had 10k+ certs saved up on 3 chars, yes, I agree that a cert sink is needed.

Is RNG loot box the way to go?
No, no and no. RNG loot box is a disgusting anti consumer tactics that only the most greedy or desperate company will resort to. Give a fix price on an implant. 10k certs? 20k certs? It doesn't matter, give a fix number on it and I will have no complain.

There are certainly folks who aren't fans of RNG and we certainly spent a lot...a LOT of time looking at business models for this. Looking around at many games, especially free to play ones, I think you are going to find this is really common. These implants are designed to help out but not replace player skill so while not cosmetics aren't exactly required to play.

If you want a new business model then consider the cost of being a member. I do not need access to all games just PS2 and £100 per year taking in mind i need to then have to pay cosmetics is not value for money for me, and looking at the open market then i think your off the mark.

If you offered this game for JUST ps2, with the same benefits for £30 - £35 per year, the cost of most games, then many would sign up.
Your looking at the wrong way to make money, milking what you have not looking how you can bring on new customers.

and also change the membership benefits, they haven't been touched in years and are extremely outdated,
such as the 48 cap on passive certs, i missed my daily cert log last night so i've simply lost those certs,
plus it makes membership an extra chore in your day, and why the hell would anyone want to pay for another chore?!

I use prejudice lots of the time as it has a good place on these forums. You would be the first who wouldn't be ranting about that. If I was wrong, sorry about that.

I view the implant system the same as the infantry weapon system: There's lots and lots of infantry weapons across all classes, and unlocking+upgrading them all is going to be one hell of a job, not to mention all the vehicle weapons and upgrades, and aircraft weapons and upgrades, and PMB buildings and upgrades... The game is littered with things that will take ages and tens of thousands of certs to unlock all.
The difference is that with most of these systems, 90% of it is all side-grade. You don't need it all, and there's no reason to collect them all. With this system of implants all implants have a usefulness that can be exploited by changing your playstyle a bit, you can't selectively pick out one specific implant so players don't save up for one specific one and ignore the rest but you do get 3 to 9 free chances on a new implant whenever you buy the upgrade points. This means players will have more trouble gaining everything, and keeps the system alive and useful for earning for longer.

Could the system be altered? Yes I think so, for example by lowering the drop chance of an implant you already have by 10% or so (that's 10% of the drop chance of the implant, not a flat 10% chance it drops which would put most implants at a negative drop chance. That would be morbidly funny actually, "hey you have -5% drop chance, if that one happens you lose the implant!"). Then reduce the drop chance by another 10 or 20% for each implant drop during buying a pack. So if the first drop is an assimilate, the chance of a second assimilate dropping is lower. Is that chance gone? Ofcourse not! And it shouldn't have to. Otherwise the 9-pack would immensely increase the chances on semi-rares and rares. Since there's 6 common implants it would mean at least 3 semi-rare or rare implants with each pack, and the system would go down the toilet again.

I do understand why this decision was made. It will surely bring in more revenue, at least over the short term. However, I don't play games with RNG loot boxes and I maintain a subscription with planetside 2 precisely because I hope that providing a consistent revenue stream for the game will be more valuable to DBG in the long run. I can only say that I am sadden by this decision and I hope for planetside 2's sake that the benefit will outweigh the good will you are going to lose over this.

You are more optimistic than me then. I quote myself: "as the player base shrinks and the pressure to monetize the existing player base grows, I am willing to bet that more and more "attractive" and "must have" implants will be released". I hope that my prediction is wrong, but I have little faith in any company's ability to resist temptation and not milk its player base once the system is in place.

If a long time was spent looking at business models I'm even more disappointed with this change to implants. It doesn't seem like very good business to take implants away that players had already earned, and expect them to spend a lot of DBC or cert points to try their luck to get them back. I feel a better idea would have been to let people buy, at a fair cost, the implants they already had, then use RNG packs going forward for new implants.

I'll enjoy the game and spend the DBC I've already invested. I will not be putting any more money into Daybreak until they fix the mess they created and start asking paying players what they actually want.

Some other quick suggestions to increase game income...

-If you want to sell bundles, refund a portion of the costs for the items the player already has
-Have more sales, I'm personally more apt to buy stuff if I feel I'm getting a deal
-Have boosts only count down during playtime. I'm hesitant to buy and use boosts if I'm not sure how much I would be able to play in an evening or weekend. Charge more for them but let the timer count down when I'm actually playing the game. I would think a lot more players would run them if they knew they could use them.
-Let the subscribing player choose what weekend of the month they get double xp

I have two issues with this response. First, it proves that DBG is into Planetside 2 for short term gains and that means that your corporate owner doesn't have any plans to invest into what they think will have no real ROI for their investors. To grow a business you have to take risks and expand in order to gain more customers and have an eventual ROI. With this system, you are looking at short term rather than the long road. I didn't want to believe this. I figured with enough push back by your base and all access members this RNG could be reduced. This just confirms there is no REAL long term plan and I'm saddened by this.

Second, catlike combined with second wind makes trying to kill some players extremely hard. Especially, if they lag all over the place to begin with. Sure they have leet skillz but when a cloaker can decloak stab you in the back then cloak and run faster than you can react just to decloak again and finish you off by circle strafing, catlike becomes more of an exploit combined with lag in the right hands than a "sidegrade". I suppose that could be considered intentional but then why do I have to gamble to get catlike in the first place. I've wanted to argue against buying the implants that you want because I feel that is "P2W" but if they are intended to be "side grades" then why not buy them like we do guns? or just make Guns RNG.

Personally, I've been happy with the changes I've seen in recent months which is why I resubbed for 3 months. Your post has convinced me to let my sub run out as I feel like there is no future for this game and I've been completely deflated of any enthusiasm as a result.

I quote this only because it needs to be said. There is no consensus on this forum on what players truly want this game to be. Some want lattice gone. Others want it to stay but changed. Some want an open sandbox (which this game should've never been advertised as) Some, like me, don't. You will never get a true consensus on what the players want because only a tiny fraction come here to ask. This was attempted by the roadmap with votes and the only thing that accomplished was mob voting. Some ******* Outfit leader with 500 sheep told them to go to the forums and vote up or down an idea. That isn't a true consensus of anything.

Like you I will let my subscription run out. Listening to ideas and implementing them are two different things but the acknowledgement of those ideas and why they are good/bad would be better than no communication at all. This game will go into maintenance mode sooner rather than later IF DGB continues to implement shortsighted business actions like RNG implants.

I don't think they should ask people personally, but having a popup for surveys or sending them by email would at least show they would like player feedback without making players to have to log into forums. It never made sense to me that they look for feedback through twitter and reddit instead of their own forums. I didn't mind the road map, but everyone wanted a paid certification reset and it was ignored, so to have it and not follow through doesn't make much sense.

I'd personally love a reskinned PS1 with some tweaks but realize a lot of people would like different things. I think a good place to start would be listing the top things they could work on and have players rank those items, and go with the majority. Send some surveys to new players, send some to veterans, etc. Do this on the test server as well before implementing new changes like they had with implants. Hi-Rez had what I felt was a good system for getting player feedback. I wish they had the time/manpower for a mmofps but they probably find a better investment in paladins and smite.

Let's keep it constructive folks. We of course want to see continued feedback and not everyone agrees on everything.

Hi-Rez did attempt something like Planetside with Global Agenda but it was Third-person with PvE elements. Not sure it did very well.


It's funny you bring up email surveys because they actually did that for Planetside Next and there was a hint for F2P in the survey which I and several of my friends rejected as a good way to go. Planetside Next was originally suppose to be a retooled engine of PS1 which I think would have done well and could have served a good niche. Instead they bought the Forgelight engine and decided to launch PS2 on it before Everquest Next I assume as a test of it's ability. That gamble didn't go so well.

They had implants on the test server for a long time I believe but I don't think anyone knew the depth of the RNG system until it was released to the live server. I really don't think that is something that you can test as testing would be better spent on the function of the implants rather than the way in which you receive them.

Planetside will easily remain the better of the two games simply because it was more team oriented. You needed a driver and a gunner for most ground vehicles to even be successful with exception of BFRs which eventually became XP pinatas. You could build your own load out instead of being pigeonholed into a "class". Sure, inventory Tetris was lame but that could've been fixed. Even the way territory was captured and fights in bases were so much better than they are in PS2. Most continent locks were player driven and determined solely by population teamwork rather than 3/4 the population fighting in various areas while 1/4 mine cortium and somehow lock a continent down. It also had way more content on release and seemed to know what it wanted to be rather than be half Battlefield MMO quarter Planetside and quarter E-Sports.

This isn't to say Planetside didn't have issues of it's own but that is a subject for another thread.