PTS vehicle changes: Repair speed, handling, DPS

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Demigan, May 9, 2017.

  1. LordKrelas

    That vanguard is slower. You literally can keep moving, and after 2 seconds, it only has 4 seconds of shield even left.

    Stop using the agile Magrider is a straight head-on battle with the heaviest & slowest tank?
    If the most agile Magrider can beat the heaviest armor in a head-on battle at close-range, that slow *** vanguard isn't going to even have a hope in hell of winning against it at any range.
    You are meant to use Flanking to your advantage
    - if it didn't need to flank, then that Maggie could murder them even easier with a flank.


    A magrider is the only tank capable of escaping a No-win-scenario.
    Neither the Prowler let alone the Vanguard can catch it, or force a confrontation where the Magrider can not escape.

    Your intent is put the Magrider, which always has the ability to survive easier than both the Prowler & Vanguard, at medium and long range, to be able to survive and destroy the largest target (Prowler), and Slowest target (Vanguard) with a 50% win\lose ratio in close quarters.
    The tank with the smallest hit-box, only strafe-capable, speed-boost capable tank.
    It it had a 50-50 chance in a close-range battle, at longer ranges it would dominate severely.

    How? As whatever enables this small *** tank to survive close-range where its evasive capabilities are hindered, will allow it incredible power in addition to its evasion.
  2. Dethonlegs


    I don't want any tank dominating at any range. Right now a magrider will not auto win against anything (edit: ok, a flanked locked down prowler is toast). The same cannot be said for others versus it. And lets be honest, at range all MBT's can disengage at will.

    The "hail mary" magburn is a rarity in close and will at best get you into a position to repair or limp away. If anything I would say the vanguard shield is the best example of escaping a no win situation.

    Also, stop calling the Vanguard slow. With gear popping and it's top speed it's not slow. It's as mobile as a brick but that's changing on PTS.

    I don't know how PTS will turn out once live, but if the aim is to bring fights in closer then that puts the mag at an immediate disadvantage, thus the changes (and the how you asked).

    As for how I play the mag, of course I avoid head to heads as much as possible, but in many locations it's in close or nothing.
  3. LordKrelas

    Nothing auto-wins in general.
    As it requires the target not even be able to react, or have a chance.
    Every single vehicle vs vehicle, even a bloody flash isn't auto-winned against.

    The Magrider doesn't automatically lose to anything.
    And no vehicle really should automatically win - As that implies they do nothing to achieve it, like even fire a shot.
    At range, all MBTs can attempt to disengage, but only the Magrider can't be caught or escaped from.
    The Vanguard lacks the speed, the Prowler is a massive target, but the Magrider has boost & strafing capability
    - Aka, the Magrider can come away scratch-less even in disengaging while being fired at.

    Compared to the other tanks, It is slow. It literally has the slowest speed.
    So it is called slow, as It is the slowest.
    Do you call the prowler the average, since it has the highest base speed?
    The Vanguard has the slowest speed range of the MBTs so it is slow.

    The Vanguard loses the present shield in PTS, for a directional resist shield.
    So your entire bit about the Vanguard nuking the Maggie due to the shield Died a painful death on PTS.

    Welcome to the world.
    Vanguards can barely get positions where they can achieve.
    Prowlers can turn any mountain, cliff, or hill into a perfect firing position.
    Magriders can use any terrain as a weapon, and escape from any bloody threat - Or arrive well before other tanks can react.

    So the Vanguard is slow, the shield on PTS is barely useful since it is a resist shield... a directional one.
    Against the highest damage dealer, and soon to be fastest reload-speed tanks, both whom are faster than it.

    The "Shield" lasts for 6 seconds - And can be overpowered by opposing firepower during that.
    You can not escape a Magrider, nor Prowler unless you happened to roll up, and back into cover, praying they don't roll in.
    A Maggie can escape the entire hex in record time, in comparison.
    Let alone escape a bloody Prowler or Vanguard, and this is on open fields, the Shield only helps when there is cover for 'escape'

    The Vanguard has had the highest damage resistance this entire time, and the present Shield has been the deciding factor for it not being a complete defeat for the Vanguard against the other Tanks.
    Now it just has a resist value, followed by a resist booster.
    Damage will roll in, and if not done at full health, will suffer severely due to the way it bloody works.

    The PTS screwed the Vanguard.
  4. Dethonlegs

    Except to a skilled crew in a one on one in close. Shield optional. Or if flanked, by either MBT (as it should be).
    Are you saying you cannot beat a mag nearly every time in close when at full health?

    Now you are being pedantic. I agree to instead say in a vast majority of cases.

    It's pretty rare for a skilled MBT tanker to die from anything at range. Emphasis on "skilled". Taking a hit when doing so means nothing once disengaged to repair. If a mag decides to close in, that just makes it an easier kill for the vanguard by which time has already repaired.

    Being the slowest and being slow are two different things. Doesn't the van have a top speed of 66 with racer? That's faster than the mag's 65. Either way a 1km/h difference means nothing.

    I hope so. Time will tell.

    It will be interesting to see just how much the vans mobility improvements will overcome the shield nurfs and DPS changes. It will make a huge difference if you can get to cover much quicker than now.
  5. LordKrelas

    Unless that skilled crew instantously kill you on sight (which can't happen) it ain't automatically a loss.
    Not to mention, you still can disengage and that is without just turning around.
    The Maggies I fight, aren't dumb enough to simply sit still in close quarters, there are everywhere, and rarely close for long.
    As unless you consider not having a 50-50 always being an automatic loss, would it be an automatic loss.

    Even an idiot can manage to strafe with a Magrider, dodging shots.
    It ain't easy to hit a target capable of any directional motion at a distance, with a speed boost at that.
    Prowlers & Vanguards have 2 directions of motion, neither of which prevent easy prediction - that's not even counting that You can visually see what directions the vehicles can move. Hint, that's a grand advantage for the opponent.

    A Magrider's facing direction doesn't mean anything beyond the present firing or boost direction.
    So even if you know the facing, it doesn't allow any insight into the near instantaneous motion the magrider can do in any direction, and multiple directions at once.

    Any skilled operators of a tank yes.
    But any of them are far more difficult to hit in a vehicle that has no visual clues for directional motion, No fixed motion directions, and the smallest hull to hit, which is also curved.

    If a maggie decides to close in, not use the boost, in the exact same direction it was at a distance without firing a shot during it..
    Let alone not kill any exposed vanguard operator, that is all on that Maggie pilot.


    Being the slowest of the Tanks matter greatly, when the Prowler has higher damage at a longer range with faster reload, while the Magrider has strafing capability, smallest hull, and a speed boost.
    It means both the Maggie and Prowler are highly effective at a distance, and both capable of keeping the distance.

    With the PTS update, the Maggie will have the best reload, the Prowler will retain that 2-shot murder, and the Vanguard has its Shield act as a resistance booster.
    So the highest damage dealing Prowler just had the Vanguard's health-booster of 6 seconds turn into a higher frontal resistance when faced with the Prowler's double barreled cannons... which means rather than block some damage, it'll reduce the highest damage by a %, which isn't bloody effective.

    The Magrider will then also happily reload rapidly, and easily evade shells.
    This means in turn, the Magrider which could keep its distance prior can now also unload faster than the Vanguard severely.

    Your conflict situation where the Magrider is apparently screwed, requires the Vanguard to have finally found a spot where it wasn't spotted, can't be engaged at a distance, or simply where a basic operator would panic.
    Try a practical situation, and the Vanguard has no real options but to Pray.

    Only in a claimed 'screwed-to-hell' situation where only the Vanguard's 6 ******* seconds of increased health prevent the Vanguard from death.
    The Vanguard had to apparently have the upper hand, and what they call an "I-win" shield just to cause a Magrider to lose.

    The mobility improvements are a damn joke.
    Slowest Reload, A directional resist shield, and still not even top damage...
    The greatest thing to note here, is the Vanguard already had the higher resist values, and had to rely on the old shield.
    Vanu got the fastest Reload, TR has the best damage output.
    What did NC get? A resistance Booster, when higher resist values did it no favors as per the reliance on the original shield.

    How so? The numbers on the Vanguards, the fact every single situation where one wins seems to depend on the shield's existence.
    The fact that the Vanguard had the highest resist values this entire time, where it seemingly made no difference at all.
    And now the Shield is a Directional Resistance Booster, the thing that literally has been ignored due to lack of effect on the Vanguard's chances of survival for literal years.

    Can the Maggie still strafe? Yes, without any certs.
    Can the Vanguard shield? No.
    Can the Prowler dig in? No.

    Now when a Maggie gets a flank, it can reload fast enough to increase the number of shots into the enemy in less time.
    The Prowler's might was aided severely by this former reload speed advantage, allowing it to tear apart targets using the highest damage output.

    The NC's vanguard, still has the slowest reload, the slowest speeds, and not even the top damage output.
    The time is takes for a Magrider to unload into it to destroy, was decreased basically.
    The time it takes for a Prowler to unload into it was partially increased, while keeping their superior damage output.
    The Shield for the Vanguard reduced to a resistance booster, while resistances are barely noticed in this bloody game.

    The fact the Vanguard, the heaviest & slowest tank has to seek cover... Is comedy gold.
    The Faster Prowler doesn't, it can embed into artillery.
    The Magrider can take an open field, and avoid shells, or dash into cover easily, let alone nullify enemy cover.
    The tank with the biggest health pool, the highest resistance values, must seek cover.

    Like what in **** was the point of armoring the hell out of it, if the armor ain't worth ****?
    As apparently the cost of said armor, is that the Vanguard is reliant on not using said armor to tank damage...
    Like with that Logic, might as well strip the tank down, the Prowler is bigger, faster, and more lethal.
    The Magrider is smaller, faster and more capable of survival.

    What is the Vanguard? The heaviest armor, dealing with the Prowler's most damage-output, and Magrider mobility.... and losing in open field battles, with both opponent & ally exposed.
    Close-Quarters, apparently the Vanguard wins.
    Close-Quarters, where C-4 is easy.
    Where aircraft can have a field day for lack of vehicle mobility.
    Where a Tank isn't often.

    A vanguard, with the heaviest armor, and not able to survive the opposing MBT's firepower.
    You'd think as a Corporate entity, they'd have the business sense to either have armor survive the blows or build the tank to evade the blows.
    Having it unable to survive or evade the superior firepower, is illogical from a Business approach to tank construction.
    The NC knew the capabilities of TR's tank; Yet made it the easiest to die to it.
  6. Dethonlegs

    Wow, thats a long list of gripes. You forgot having to deal with the increased main gun gravity on PTS which will throw off your aim for months to come. Mag pilots are already used to it.

    It sounds like vans have more too worry about with prowlers than with mags in Wrel's new world.
  7. LordKrelas

    Vanguards have always had to worry like hell about most targets.
    And Prowlers were already the top threat due to the fire rate and damage output.
    Now a normal Magrider with any ability to drive, can dish out a rapid amount of weapons fire... while our only defensive trick became incredibly ******.

    Adapting to increased drop is nothing new to NC.
    We have it on all our bloody guns.

    And the reason the list is long, is simply due to how screwed the Vanguard often is.
  8. DeadAlive99

    The extra 12 second repair time for the Van will have to be brought in line with the others. That's the kind of thing that causes players to quit, and we can't afford that at all. I'll leave the rest to the tanker pros. (I do not like that they greatly reduced the damage gap between main shell types though.....more blurring of the lines between loadouts instead of implementing field loadout swaps for vehicles like they should have had from the beginning)
  9. Demigan

    I don't think it's just field loadout swaps, I think it's more to do with usefulness and specialization.

    HE is supposed to be the AI specialization, and sacrifices some AV power to get it. But most kills are made with direct hits, so there's little reason to try and use the AOE to kill enemy infantry. It has some uses, like damaging repair crews, but it's not much practiced. Since vehicles are the biggest threat to vehicles there's no reason to lower your AV power, meaning using AP is the way to go.
    HEAT is even more up in the air. It does sacrifice AV power, but it still kills mostly with direct hits. What's the best weapon for direct hits again? AP guns ofcourse because they deal the most direct hit damage even if you take the AOE damage into account.

    So you can add loadout swaps, but the HE and HEAT canons just aren't useful enough to swap to most of the time. Especially since 90% of the vehicle community does combat by simply shooting and facetanking damage, then hopping behind cover and repair, nothing more.

    So I think the actual idea of making HE and HEAT similar to AP is a good thing. It puts new players at less of a disadvantage and you won't be seeing the 95% AV loadouts we have now as HE and HEAT actually serve purposes.

    The only other option: Make each main canon have an undeniable advantage that players would want. HE having a higher elevation range and velocity to deal with infantry (mainly high elevation infantry at range) and HEAT getting a co-ax gun or something so they are set apart from the omniversally useful AP gun.
    The same for the AI top-guns. Currently infantry pose relatively little threat, so there's no reason to sacrifice your AV power to get some AI gun. AV weapons overall perform the AI role more then well enough, so there's no reason to pick anything else. AI guns need some kind of ability, like being able to at least damage enemy vehicles or get access to gunner-activated abilities to set them apart. Just imagine equipping a Kobalt and the Kobalt Gunner being able to activate air-burst munitions to deal with nearby infantry and explosives on the ground, or an EMP burst that does it's normal thing against infantry and can even lock up enemy vehicle abilities and perhaps nerf them temporarily. The ability to deploy a shield on the ground as gunner (that you can drive and walk through) as a temporary damage mitigation and so on and so forth.
  10. Rydenan

    The devs just hate the Vanguard.
    It's been the worst tank for as long as I've been playing (especially in comparison to the absurdity that is the lockdown Prowler), and not a thing has been done about it.


    They only recently decided to deliver the killing blow.


    Edit: Oh, and you forgot: fire suppression and repair sundies will also now be less effective on the Vanguard.