Nothing Keeps SNIPERS in Check

Discussion in 'Infiltrator' started by IrishInsanity, Mar 15, 2017.

  1. Klondor


    Learn. It is important to note, what is not mentioned in the video. Cloak can be hear up to 100m away.
  2. BartasRS

    Funny how most hate for infiltrators (snipers) come from people who admit they don't play it.
    When I main infiltrator I do everything to help to my team (if the team is present that it). Often I go to the next base (while the rest of my bunch is still waiting for capture XP tick) to hack turrets and terminals or overload generators. When my team is taking a base I try to prevent enemy from spawning vehicles, re-hack terminals or take out Engies/Snipers that can stop out advance, spam sensor darts and place mines.

    Sure, it sucks to be one shotted but it sucks even more to spend few minutes to get to nice sniping spot just to be killed/hunted after killing 1 or 2 enemies. As I said before, it IS fun to kill someone from extreme range but it is by far less rewarding in terms of XP than spammin HE or flying around as LA throwing nades and C4 around + you always have some ammo packs around to refill your gun.

    Want infils to be more useful? Give them vehicle hacking ability already but then... more people will cry that they cannot peacefully farm their precious XP sitting "1000m" away, safe, immune to snipers.
    • Up x 1
  3. Eternaloptimist

    Other snipers are a counter to long range snipers as you've pointed out yourself, so your initial argument falls. I've also used stalker infils and LAs to go after snipers who think they are a safe distance from the fighting.

    I would love it if half a mountainside was populated by snipers for me to hunt but sadly this is a major exaggeration on the EU servers at least. Infils are actually the least played class in the game across all servers IIRC. The most I've ever seen was four or five in one place (including the dead ones :)).

    Well, this depends on the weapon from my experience. My HV45 CQC AR is pants now as you have to stick it up someone's nose to get max damage and the targets don't hang around long enough to take a lot of bullets at more than 5 metres (not in CQC). On the other hand, my SABR13 gained something like 25 meters range and I can kill planetmans further away than ever at the same damage tier as before.

    I hear that we are all getting a tier one Focus implant for free when they are launched, so we're getting hold breath anyway even if we don't want to buy the new implant packs. And I have died often enough to countersnipers, stalkers, LAs, HE and aircraft to disagree that long range snipers are risk free.
    • Up x 1
  4. Skarzog

    https://www.planetside2.com/players/#!/5428427861059009665/stats

    I spent a bit of time specifically playing infiltrator to learn about it. 95% of the time you get your kills from long range on unsuspecting enemies who have no chance at returning fire.
  5. PanzerGoddess

    hhhmmm still depending whether I want to actually reply with something good or jump servers to find the infiltrator haters so I can make it even harder for them to like us lol.......

    "Infiltrators do nothing in this game except run around with SMGs or camp far away with sniper rifles." from mr 1917.....lol

    is that like a cheap pick up line to find girls???? :rolleyes:
    I will keep that in mind when Im rushing a point to take it back or holding a point with others using darts and my tsar 42, oddly enough like any smart player I use my environment and tools to keep myself alive and push forward....you know like walls and stuff....yet somehow I don't have the luxury of walking into a line of bullets with my resist and overshield lobbing rockets, C4 and HMG....

    but like you said running around with SMG's apparently is easy to do because killing people in the open is like ya know what your supposed to do right. I will put the infiltrator class up against any class anytime for anything.....and when you think were useless I will get behind enemy lines, hack a terminal, drop a sundy and bring an entire platoon on top of you or better yet pull a mbt and drop your sundy you thought was well defended.....or hot drop in as a stalker and bust out a beacon and bring my squad to your point before you have a chance to think. Why because your whole thought process of running around with SMG's and camping make you a subpar player who still has much to learn about playing your own favorite class let alone the infiltrator class.

    And when you decide to play medic I expect you to rez the dead and heal your faction mates when needed, or when you play engineer your making sure your supplying ammo and keeping fellow maxes alive, if your an HA your holding points and pushing forward using actual tactics and keeping your squadmates alive, and if your a light your actually using your jets and finding ways to spot the enemy and taking out maxes etc from high vantage points or taking out key sundies.

    Every class has its use, the question is how many actually utilize the class for what its intended to be, Ive played HA and have had medics walking all over my body without rezzing me for whatever godforsaken reason, or lights and engies throwing c4 and tank mines in groups of friendlies hoping to get one enemy kill regardless of what else happens or better yet having max units hold a point with no engy support at all regardless of the cries lol.

    I usually don't rant but lol every time I see a infiltrator this infiltrator that I laugh to myself because give it time your will be non-existent or that "player" who just cant figure out any class because your so madly in love with my class
  6. Salojin


    I don't use these forums much because I find that it's just users complaining about one anothers' tactics in hopes that devs will come along and find some way to "balance" things. Which is my polite way of saying I haven't got much faith in this system and I think we're just circle-jerking about our own opinions here.

    I'm not saying you're wrong. Quite the opposite, I think the idea of "shoot more, win more" is dumb. At the same time I think the idea of the lowest HP class being further limited is also dumb.

    What I believe is that most F2P gamers don't have effective rigs to adequately see/spot infils, and the play styles of infils are such that they are inherently hamstringing to players on the receiving end. It's annoying to get killed by infiltrators, but that's sort of the job of the infil class, and I won't argue with that. I think that a lot of the conversation we're having right now isn't about the right thing. I think we're essentially complaining that the infiltrator has had to carve out a rouge-ish sort of role as a combat specialist because there is very little else of them to do that other classes can't already carry out.

    Want to snipe? There are other rifles in other classes that do that.

    Want to rush and SMG? Why not do that with an overshield?

    Want to spam motion sensors? There's a crossbow pistol gimmick for that.

    As it stands, the infiltrator class has to straddle this bizarre position between being a lack luster support/ offensive piece or an absurdly aggressive and short lived offensive piece. ReconDarts can tell you the advantage of playing purely support and other, more typical infil/smg scumbags can tell you the near surgical role they provide during fights. Both parties are absolutely correct in their beliefs.

    So what's the fix for all this complaining? An invisible class needs some manner of drawback and as it stands right now, the only one that infiltrator has is that it is extremely squishy. Given the rapid TTK in this game, I would argue that the low HP setting for infils is largely negated by the current TTK. This leaves us with the issue that there is a class that can invisibly pass through mobs of fighters and kamikazi drop mines or hose medics holding doorways or corners pretty effectively. Is this unfair? Perhaps, but that's how games work, you stack odds in your favor to overcome obstacles.

    At this point in this rambling post I've effectively said: infils are annoying because they haven't got anything else to do.

    Here's my fix: give infiltrators more purpose.

    Here's the issue: those roles are up to the devs to sort out, and they won't.
  7. oTec

    I haven't got much certed on my new character but infiltrator already proves to be a very useful class.
    If it's a base defense i will either go to the point and snipe from there (i don't have any other weapon atm besides the OHK starter weapon). I'll deploy the motion spotter or if the enemy isn't near the point i will spam recon darts. If it's offense, it depends on the base. I'll still provide recon darts but i'll take a position from wich i can see roofs/stairs/areas wich overlook my allies, so if anyone pops out they get a bullet to the head. I'm never more then a 100-150m from the point at all times.
  8. Cullwch

    Snipers are kept in check alright. People in this thread who go on about how snipers are the bane of all things good think more along the lines of 'Oh, getting 1shot is a pain. Nothing irks me so, therefore it must be op.' The single balance indicator should be whether they have an undue control over how fights unfold, and the logical answer is: Yes and no. In their intended ranges, they are murdering machines par excellence, just like how any other class is very good at their intended task. People ignore a number of important matters in complaining about this fact:

    1, Sniping effectively and adeptly is a learned skill. It has a very high skill floor and an even higher skill ceiling. With every shot, outside of maxes and shielded heavies, you can extinguish one play. Every shot, however, must be made to count. Contrast that with high RoF weapons which have a low skill ceiling and a high skill floor. An untrained person will perform to a passable standard with high RoF weapons, without being able to produce extraordinary results, but an LMG or Carbine or whatever is no less devastating in the hands of an adept user thereof. In fact, I urge people to take a look at not the kdr rates of snipers but kpm or kph or a similar indicator to get a better picture of what snipers can and do accomplish on the macro scale. Skilled snipers who are not just target pickers, but pick priority targets with ease are few and far between and they always have a lot of kills and hours of practice under their belt. Very often with these extremely skilled snipers, however, the game becomes a slaughterfest and they are there to kill units, not to end fights, conquer the lattice or anything else. They generally have less interest in affecting the overall dynamics of a battle or alert, because they're absolutely content with popping heads for hours on end.

    2, KDR is bit of a weird one in Planetside, because it means very little in the grand scheme of things. KDR doesn't help you capture or defend objectives better or win alerts, specific forms of action does. When you end up in the indoors grinders that point defence usually results in, with 40+ people on each side trying to push through a corridor, snipers have a moderate to mild effect on how things unfold, and their stellar kdr and countless kills mean remarkably little with how respawns, logistics and supply lines work. As a matter of fact, many other classes have a much more profound effect on logistics in a game where logistics is usually the single most important thing. How often do you see snipers destroy sunderers or carry out air deterrence or any related task? Not very often. Death in Planetside is the most prevalent thing after nanites.

    3, Long distance sniping is usually the least fruitful activity for an aggressive, kill and objective minded player. Sure, it is relatively safe, but the static angle cause by the relative distance to the front makes for a hard time with target picking. It is simply the case that outside of supremely well-positioned snipers with excellent training, this activity is just pointless. Furthermore, static long range snipers have a hard time adapting to the flow of battle and have absolutely no impact on massive, indoors fights outside of shooting at externalised players who don't know where they are or what they are doing, but stand still in the open to look at daily deals all the same.

    4, Snipers have countless counters. Other snipers and other infiltrators, including QCX, Commissioner and Blackhand infiltrators being the most prominent. These players can close the distance with relative ease and exterminate entire pockets of complacent snipers. CQC Bolters are a different story, but they are much easier to deal with for other classes as well as fellow infiltrators, but they also have a greater impact on how things unfold and play much more like regular infantry, albeit being more elusive (pun intended). Also, taking into account the sheer level of training and acclimation that goes into being effective as a cqc bolter, I don't think any sane person would begrudge them the sweet, sweet headshots that they have earned through painstaking training.

    All in all, to summarise, the arguments for 'reining in' those unruly snipers are poor and ring hollow to all but the most myopic readerships and should ideally be ignored.
    • Up x 8
  9. oTec

    If you find an entry at wich there is less "activity", you can often cloack and stand a bit from the entrance and take down the AI turret engineers quite easily, wich helps with the point taking. It also works on normal infantry camping the entrance but you gotta dodge the fire that comes in after you take your shot.
    If there is alot of explosive/bullet spam, i can't really do much. I'm too squishy to push nor have the right weapons to do so. I mostly just use recon darts on the flanks or a motion spotter in a position that shows inside the objective.

    Nice post btw.
    • Up x 1
  10. pnkdth


    I can win against players without class abilities, primary weapon, even a secondary. Doesn't mean I'm only using the knife though because can doesn't mean it is a good chance I will.

    Without the cloak though, the infil needs to have its health bumped up to where everyone else is and should probably have an innate ability where you cannot Q-spot an infil at all + never showing up on the mini-map(call it a noise suppression field or whatever). Otherwise, the class would just be a ****** version of the LA with worse weapons.
  11. Cancerion

    Please; I main INF and I AM a front line combat troop. I don't even have SMG or Scout Rifles unlocked.

    Recon, Maxed. (Dart and Device)
    Bouncing Betty's, Maxed.
    Stalker 4/ Hunter 4
    NC-14 Bolt Driver
    NC-4 Mag-Shot
    Knife
    Med-Kit

    I'm either in the thick of the battle laying betties or providing recon & dropping beacons and stabbing,
    sniping you down on the way to be in the thick of the battle to lay betties, recon & beacons,
    hacking your terminals and turrets and generators,
    stabbing your sniper line in the back because they think they're safe,
    stalking your infiltrators who've found my AMS,
    dropping bodies and calling out enemy AMS' for the Blueberry Militia,
    or dieing over and over again trying to get to previously stated objectives. (<-- Mostly that)

    You certainly can counter a hill of snipers.. once you find their ridge line, lay a way point and come back with Scout Radar & LOLpods.. or any other vehicle with Scout Radar & Splash Damage. Oh, but then you'll be crying about OP AA Maxes, no Thermals, or how the MBT cleared the ridge before you could get to it.. how Heavies decimate your lightning or harasser, or how C4 Fairy's dismantle your MBT piece by piece like it was a birthday cake.

    Seriously, give me a break. Every class has the ability to utterly dominate another specific classes playstyle in this game. Counter Sniping from an adjacent angle outside of their main-battle focus being one of the most lucrative because it deflects their focus onto you from the main effort.. saving your faction mates from the fabled "one shot kill" in the doorway and racking up XP and confidence in your ability for yourself.
  12. TR5L4Y3R

    Buff darklights (make the light itself less visible and buff the range it reveals cloaks) or swap darklights for a heartbeatsystem or add a thermalvisionsystem option to a guns railattachment that show cloaked infils aswell and highlighting infantry in line of sight (not on the minimap) but are only useable while ADS ..
    do nightvisionscopes reveal cloaked infils? No ? then they should

    having these options for antiinfil or antiinfantryscouting would be on the cost of having no access to lasersights or forwardgrips for better accuracy
  13. Grymraven

    Infiltrators as far as CQB go are fine. I would have no problem having to give up cloak to carry a sniper rifle specifically. Making snipers more reliant on cover and concealment from range. Or as a compromise, how about a 5 or 10 sec delay to cloak after firing a sniper rifle. That way you can move to cover undetected,but once you start firing it evens the field a bit. Problem solved, you're welcome.
  14. DeathSeeker



    Take this post- put it right under the OP, now.
    There can not be a more comprehensive explanation on what long range sniping is and how it reflects on the indoor based layout of most bases.
    Not talking about smgs here- taking a BASR (unless the low zoom and even then still) into CQC and doing good is a trained skill as stated and to some extent your more shooting yourself in the foot. If he's dropping people left and right in that setting he's been at it for a while and should well get that 1 shot.
    Longer range (150+) if you got hit either A] you were chosen as an important target- you should be honoured. B] what were you really doing? C] shooter just got REEAALLLY lucky (taking into account that a crapton of new guys snipe<- this is likely)
    Next : if one complain about getting sniped so much, Quartz Ridge, Howling Pass , Crown, good number of the bio labs, tech plants might as well say most major bases have great surroundings for sniping close-by ...as if snipers were supposed to go there to moderate infantry going about, but hey tanks do it better in those same spots.
    • Up x 1
  15. TheMerc

    Good players keep snipers in check! Your standing still like a dumb *** and that will get ya instagibed. I know, 200 plus hours laughing at the whiners in yell chat. Makes my day every time I'm making some elses day miserable. Lots of counters for getting snipers already.
    • Up x 1
  16. BrbImAFK


    Personally, I don't think anybody should be proud of making somebody else miserable. That's the sort of dickish attitude that the worst of the internet is based on. Ultimately, every other character in PS2 is another human being, with their own problems and worries and griefs - we shouldn't be adding to those. As whatsisname said, we should "Be excellent to each other".
    • Up x 2
  17. BoatsFriends

    I'd give up cloak if you changed the Headshot Multiplier for The Ghost, SAS-R and Tsar-42 from 2.1x to 4.375x
  18. Deffington

    Do you need more damage than one shot kill?

    Kinda universal truth is that snipers ruin every game. In other game it is someone who can kill you over such distance you can't even see him, Planetside pushed this even further with cloak. It might not be super strong class, but it is super annoying. To addition to this, there are players that play infil exclusively and tend to comment their kills/deaths in rude manner, [MM] Dimetr on Miller for example. I believe that games would be much better without this class.

    Infil in Planetside has the first shot (unless the player is not playing properly) coupled with potential one-shot-kill. Annoying and K/D rewarding at the same time. Stalker cloak might be fun for the Stalker, but definitely not for the other guy. Not sure about higher graphic settings, but on mine Stalker is not visible at all when still and flashlight doesn't help much. Also, the reward for finally finding the guy camping the point is usually a headshot from commisioner or active knife. Playing Planetside outside main hours can be described as depressing. And honestly, advices like 'don't stay still on open field' are worthless. If sniper misses one shot, he can simply try again. He has more than enough attempts before I dance close enough to effectively fire back. Finding cover would only help if someone was able to take the sniper down while I'm hiding. Reducing ammo could help, as these would require some more support or force campers to leave their spot.
  19. LordKrelas

    When you can't kill the bloody medic who's too far in the back to be hit by a bullet, or that engineer repping his tank...
    You will ask why in hell no one has a long-ranged rifle.

    "Rude", you died to someone wasting time to line up a bullet to your head.
    Sorry they didn't duel you in your MAX suit, or Heavy class.

    If Infil doesn't have the first shot, which is a hard shot: They die.
    Followed by to not die to travel time, needs to be at a distance..., which is still in range of any vehicle, intelligent people, and aircraft.

    With crap graphics and better graphics, You can easily see them up close, and at a decent range...
    If you are actually looking for the distortion, movement or simply fire where you think one might be.

    If a heavy misses a shot with a rocket, or a kill , they can try again.
    If the tank mines didn't kill a tank, the Engie can try again.

    Don't stay in the same damn spot, until you or an ally kills or disables the sniper.
    Just like if a tank misses, you still have that tank to deal with till it is handled.

    Reducing ammo.
    Seriously? You ever count to 20? That's 20 kills, if all are perfect shots.
    A heavy camping your *** has 200-300 bullets, and a rocket launcher with 5 shots.

    Shouldn't have to literally be at an even greater disadvantage, just to fire a long ranged weapon.
    Didn't duel your ***; Neither did the tank, the aircraft, nor anyone bright.
    The Heavy & Max do not need to be dueled to die.
    A smart person, doesn't try to duel a Sniper, any more than a Max Suit as a medic, without some form of plan.

    That Sniper had to plan out their spot, their shots, and execute them; You want less results for their efforts?
    How about we reduce the ability to kill with a rocket launcher.
    Or that damn Chaingun & shotgun?

    If you die to someone with a bloody knife, or a infil: They likely put more effort into that than you did.
    Other times they get lucky, and survive that attack, that they the cloaker made.

    One shot of a commie.
    Well, that just told everyone else that a target is there.
    And you just removed the element of surprise from them, in the next meeting.

    This is from someone who regularly kills Infils, as everything under the sun.
    Even with an Archer, they die pretty quick.
    And with that Archer, you can do 2-shots to people at the same range, with the ability to kill tanks.
    Not hearing complaints about that.
  20. JonnyBlue

    Judging by what people have been saying on this thread is there any point to playing a sniper? And yet there very popular which I can only conclude that some people do very well with them.

    The worst thing about snipers isn't what they can do its the fact that they dictate how you have to play the game which in my view is wrong if DB removed them from the game they would not be missed because its a griefer class pure and simple , While they have a very limited effect on battles they have a big psychological effect on players.

    Does the game need a long range griefer ?

    Snipers who play medium range at least can help there team out they can cap , defend , take down a chokepoint with mines but I see no advantages that a team gets from long range snipers its the most selfish class in the game they preform not one function that gives any benefit to there team.