A note to the devs regarding this last patch

I have been a long time Planetside 2 player, on and off since it came out, my brother and I have probably spent hundreds of dollars on this game for weapons, cosmetic enhancements, and subscriptions. I'm not great at this game, but I like to play it, and I like to invest in it, like a hobby.

Throughout the time I've played, I've noticed a highly shady business practice of selling an item that is powerful, and then nerfing it into uselessness later without refunding anyone's purchase price. From a customer perspective, I did not BUY the nerfed version, I bought the original version which was a lot more powerful, if you no longer wish to provide the powerful version and want to change it, it is only fair that you refund my money and let me decide if I want to buy the nerfed version.

Also, stop taking things away from the game to correct imbalances or address gameplay concerns, try instead to add something which combats it. You didn't need to remove the infantry glow from Thermal the way you did from Nightvision years ago, instead you could have introduced a consumable or an armor that made someone immune to thermal vision for a period of time or at a certain distance. A long time ago you nerfed the HEAT and HE rounds on tanks and so I stopped playing my Magrider, now you've ruined the ESFs for me as well since I can no longer identify infantry ground threats from the air.

A lot of the time, these are changes that nobody asked for, you just arbitrarily decided to nerf something an influence a gameplay style that only you or some vocal minority desire. This last patch seems to be completely geared towards helping infiltrators who already overpopulate and ruin the game.

As a paying customer I would hope that you would be somewhat responsive to retaining my interest in this game. For now I can only tell you that I so disagree with the changes in this recent patch that, as a paying customer I will no longer renew my subscription or make daybreak cash purchases in this game until the changes are rescinded, certs/daybreak cash is refunded, or something is added to make up for what has been taken away. Unfortunately, the only way I can think of to protest these changes is to deprive you of any future payments. I invite you to look up my transaction history and get a better idea of what you will be missing out on in the future.

Dragora - Connery
40oz2Freedom - Emerald
DieSlave - Emerald

Well thought out and on point post.

Constantly nerfing abilities is a terrible way to manage a game. All it does it alienate the players who used those abilities.
What you said is true, they need to add new abilities to combat things that are powerful, not delete core game mechanics.

But hey, that would involve actual programming and effort.

there were some really good changes this patch,
MCG is now a real run and gun weapon,
Jackhammer became a nightmare for your foes (i expect nerf threads in the near future)
even lasher got some CoF tightening

also the thermals probably did need a nerf.

i wasn't a fan of the nerf to cqc potential of shotguns, fortunately you can get around it by using slugs
(which 2 shot kill within 10m)

also the hornet nerf practically removes them from the game, lolpods are better in every single way now.

and they really should have refunded thermals.

all in all i think it was a positive patch.

If you can't farm infantry without the old thermal sight, I don't know what to say. It's been a day since the patch, and on Connery at least, the aerial infantry farming is still going very strong. Overall, the patch made pretty negligible difference for A2G on Connery. Bottom line is, if you're a good ESF pilot to begin with, you don't need the clutch of thermal highlights. And if you suddenly find yourself under-performing in an ESF by a large margin since the patch, then maybe you were simply not nearly as good of a pilot as you thought you were...

I agree that it may be more fair to get a refund, but unfortunately we all clicked "agree" on the EULA.
The TLDR version of the EULA (under "1.3 Software and Gameplay") basically says that they can/may change things that you buy (for the worse), and you just have to deal with it and not get a refund.

Which is basically like saying "Im ok with not getting a refund, even if they make the thing i bought completely useless".

I know...its like that South Park episode with the human centipede where they try to get it to read documents before signing and Kyle never does...

That's exactly the way I feel with most gamers these days. They just don't seem to understand that they're signing a document that literally states "ANYTHING is subject to change, sign here to say 'I don't care, take my money!' " Then they're upset when things change and they took their money.

....Sorry?

Remember the "roadmap" idea? Ya know... making development decisions based solely on the will of the community with no input from the devs. I was gone for 2-3 years and coming back its a totally different game in a bad way. Its like a watered down battlefield wannabe with a poorly implemented game engine. There is no vehicular combat anymore as you are going to be way more effective as a foot solider in almost every situation / fight.

I can't even reinstall the game at the moment. Does anyone know if the update server is down or something? Or is it another technical issue?

Infiltrators overpopulate the game?...lol
Yeah it is not like it is JUST the third most played class...and than there is HEAVY....and ENGIE.....

Do you know what ruined the Game?

Anti Infantry Tanks and ESF and they finally get cut out.

There are people on Cobalt server who deserved beeing slapped because they farmed their KDR with a Airhammer/Banshee or LPPA the WHOLE. *******. DAY...24/7.

That does ruin a game.

And not the third least played class with 900hp and GAMEBREAKING counters...

Basically this. The lasher still lacks enough DPS to be competitive with the other ESHWs but hopefully the buff trend will continue for it. Haven't tried the MCG in the new patch, but I've seen some stupid **** done with the Jackhammer...

To the OP:
So basically you're throwing a tantrum because the devs want to discourage a P2W environment as much as possible? Seems legit...

This is why you don't buy guns with real money. Is it really that hard of a concept to grasp? Spend yo $$$ on hats my man. Don't waste real money on things you can unlock in several short hours of playing - perhaps even less, considering that by your own admission you are an A2G/HE spammer.

I bought two Furies for my battle sundy with (then called) Station Cash. Now they've been heavily nerfed, not just with their damage being massively reduced but with the thermal sight nerf too.

Bottom line - I will NEVER spend real money on weapons in this game ever again, it's just not worth it if they will be made near useless further down the line.

Welp, then that simply motivates players to never spend money on the game again. Sudden changes that barely hit PTS for like a week and suddenly shipped without any testing pisses players off, I'm still seeing people pop in game and asking wtf is wrong with therms asking if it's a bug, and nearly everyone (except 2 people) have said that it's ********.

Case and point.


They struck a nerve here guys, a simple CERT refund simply helps save face, like dropping an EX but giving her a goodbye gift in good spirit. I mean sure, it didn't last, they enjoyed it, but it's better than sending a slap in the face because turns out, your EX is your boss, your main controller of income, a nightmare I know.

To be honest, I did go a little overboard with the muns, I bought items because I liked the game, I liked what it provided, this is before a lot of the AI nerfs. I liked the vehicles stopping infantry in their tracks, I got into flying because I wanted to better counter AI ESFs, I pulled tanks and customized my tank just so I could fight AI tanks.

But now I have absolutely no reason to do any of that when I can simply be infantry. Now that fights are isolated to infantry even more so now than ever before, I have no motivation to fly, no motivation to use AA, now that tanks simply don't want to be near base fights, I never have to pull an AP tank or an AP lib, now I can just heavy everything to death, sucks for gals, sucks for libs, sucks for esfs, sucks for tanks, sucks for harassers, but this is the meta devs wanted, so now they are not only getting less money because people do not trust them with vehicle balance anymore, but now there is less reason to ever pull vehicles than ever before which is not only a cert sink but a money sink as well.

GJ.

Let's try and put your situation as a customer in simple terms:

You buy a phone with a subscription. However unlike a normal subscription, for normal use of the apps on your phone you gain points. These points can be used to buy apps that would have cost you money otherwise. Let's call these points "certifications".

Now you are a bit impatient and you buy a 7 dollar app with money, with the purpose of using that app to earn certification points faster than with other apps since it's a useful app. With certification points it would have cost you 1000 points. After a year or so they reduce the effectiveness of the app as well as the purpose of the app.
At this point the company wouldn't just refund the entire app. They would say "ok, let's look at an approximation what each owner of the app has earned from using it". If you earned more than 1000 points, you already earned your app back and they have no reason to refund you. Especially if the app was more efficient than other apps in the same timeframe. You've been able to enjoy the app when it was more profitable, you've earned you app back, they have no reason to refund you. This becomes especially true when you've earned more than 2000 points with it.

The only users of the app who would be entitled to a refund is the users who didn't get their money's worth before it was nerfed. However since the bulk of the uses will have had their money's worth it's a mute point.

I really hope I don't have to explain the parallel here.

For those who didn't catch it: It's not about what you can get out of it now, it's about what you already got out of it before it was changed. And if that's well worth it, then you have nothing to complain about.

Oh come on, again this nerf paranoia? Some things were toned down, others were buffed. But you guys only see nerfs.
Even claymore: nothing has changed they kill the same as before.

The only real nerf was to thermal and that was NEEDED after 4 years during which aircraft screwed good fights with a cheap weapon attachment that spotted everyone ftom 300 mts and has never had a counter. That has always been unfair and it has gone away.

Could they make the game fair without changing thermal? Sure: making ESF explode to 3 hits of Skyguard, nerfing their guns to the ground and removing Stealth. That would have put aircraft exactly in the same position where infantry has always been compared to ESF.
Would you like it? I don't think so. Now get back to the game and try to learn how to use your missiles without the magic button revealing every target.

since the last patch now i check that if you have a termal visión now don t see more the light in the enemy infantry,this is confuse,really we lose the chance in the nights for look people.

this devs ruined the game,i hope they fix this,i have termal visión in all vehicles and now i lose resources in this ability nerfed,now for error with this new nerfed termal visión i kill allied for error,please fix this.

Actually that makes no sense because no company does that. Plus, what about people who just bought it then? Just because they joined part of a majority they are screwed too?

Let me replace "skyguard" with "Heavy" and suddenly, that's exactly what we have!
Stealth? You mean being aware of things wasn't good enough for you? And they have nerfed their "to the ground" guns, several times! AH was reworked and nerfed 3 times, banshee was also nerfed and PPA? Nerfed twice! How about I take away all lockons and tell you to aim all your magic missiles without having to aim at a targets general direction AS INFANTRY. Don't like that? No ****.

Also when has anyone, literally anyone said thermals are OP? You are only saying it was NEEDED because you think it was NEEDED when the devs DID IT. Also never had a counter? THEN WHY DIDN'T THEY PUT IN THAT? WOULDN'T THAT MAKE MORE ******* SENSE? "Oh hey, we could make this implant hides you from thermals while replacing other useful implants such as sensor shield and EoD hud, creating an interesting delima in loadouts, ah **** it, we'll just piss on every vehicle player in the game and call it rain, also make it look like it's working exactly the way they want it in PTS and pass it a ******* week after because **** EFFORT".

It comes up, though infrequently. There was a much larger push for it about a year or so ago but nothing happened at that time and eventually people moved onto other arguments. Thermals for Air was a more common invocation thasn thermals for ground.

Things get changed. Getting hung up on every change will just raise your blood pressure. Remember when IRNV wss gvien scope sway? howls and lashing of disapproval. Nowadays? IRNV has scope sway; people still use it, just people deal with it. Infiltrators in CQC turn your crosshairs red? met with indignation. Nowadays? not even a passing aggravation. Mines no longer auto-detonating under stationary vehicles? an unfair coddling against unattentive players. Nowadays? mines don't detonate under stationary vehicles.

Yes, no phone company does that. You know who does do that? Free-to-play games like Planetside, which was the parallel I was making. I instantly showed how generous PS2's free-to-play model actually is in allowing you to earn almost everything worthwhile by just playing the game. You can buy weapons with money or certs, and through normal use of the weapons you earn back certs. Something like Thermals Sights made it easier to spot and kill players and earn back it's costs.

Now I have no problem with giving players a refund if they couldn't get their money's/cert's worth out of it, however less than a 1000 players will be part of that. So go ahead, give anyone who bought thermals in the last 2 weeks a refund for just that thermal. However the entitled ******** asking for refunds should stop. It's not fair if you can both get a refund but still have enjoyed the OP status of things like Thermals.

If the issue they were trying to correct with the massive thermal nerf was Air-based infantry farming, then the solution would have been to nerf just the air thermals. Nerfing the ground vehicle thermals on anti-infantry pretty much eliminated their purpose in trying to prevent destruction of sunderers by infantry. When it is now even easier to destroy vehicles with gunners in them via infantry attacks, you have just reinforced the one thing most players hate - zerging. If you can no longer defend one or two sunderers on an attack, you now will be forced to go with a zerg to achieve the same result that you could with a previous surgical strike and an infantry defense weapon with thermals.
THAT is what makes the game no longer fun.
There were already many ways for removal of annoying vehicles by infantry - tank mines - MANA turrets (which also were nerfed) - c4 fairy drops, c4 wraith flashes, heavy rockets, etc, etc...) making these vehicles even less defensible will continue to reinforce the need for zerging to achieve the same level of results you previously could with a small squad.
Yes, I am a subscriber because the game WAS fun to play, however I see this as a push for gameplay style I despise - zergs.
When AoD or DaPP go zerg-festing, I find it to no longer be "fun" which is why we do this in the first place.
That is why I will be dropping my membership after what I have currently paid for expires.
Anything that reinforces the need for more zerging is a serious step in the wrong direction.
And don't try to tell me this is a step to try to counter zergs by making their vehicles more vulnerable.
It is *NOT* - I typically play a dedicated vehicle removal engineer so I know whereof I speak. What kills me the majority (85+%) of the time is the infantry from the zerg, not the vehicle. So nerfing ground-based thermals really only hurts the smaller squad attacks with 1 or two sunderers.
And doing that will lead to more zerging to counter it.
And I enjoyed this game so much previously because a half dozen people with a dedicated commitment to a task could make a difference, but now it has devolved into a win by zerging game which is not enjoyable.

Alright, people will literally whine about everything, that's a universal law, that however only answers who complained about it, not why wasn't X or X done, just to be clear.

Ok so you mean to tell me that all the trust I built up in the game being awesome and something I want to support and completely backlashing is generous? No, free to play relys on that CO-OP, if the game wasn't free to play it would die, remember when TF2 wasn't free? Then was free? How about wows trial to lvl 20 before it existed, you could even buy subscription with enough gold in game. No, this isn't generousity that compels devs to make the playground fair, it's their game would shivel up and die if it wasn't fair. We all know this game is not p2w, you can get any weapon that this guy payed money for or a variation that isn't gold. If it was ptw then players would not ******* play. This is a fundamental law of free to play games that live for two months, not generosity of the devs not making this weapon unbuyable with certs.

Secondly, what about people that bought it and didn't enjoy it? That didn't make certs back? How bout bought it had it for two years and never once touched it. How about buying it for the sake of noobs defending your sundi, you don't even get to use your own weapon. As almost everyone would say would say "That. Is. Bull. Crap.!". How about the tail on your lib you never used or topgun on a vanguard or even on a kobalt flash? You method just seems spiteful and completely unorthodox and unconventional and unfair to players. A mass recert would be the only fair thing to do even if people used the weapon, the devs even gave the weapon to use as intended, it shouldn't be some stupid mass taboo or sin to play a certain aspect of combat, AP tanks are already getting as much hate as HE because they end infantry fights, solution? Sundis (ptswise)getting an AV weapon, a garage, and libs decking the crap out of tanks while not being able to enter said garage without eating a deci. Enough of this stupid spite already, it wasn't good for anyone in any side of any faction who was ever on the recieving end of any nerf.