Balance Appears Broken.

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Kopulator, Dec 23, 2016.

  1. Kopulator

    When Light Assaults can take out any vehicle they want solo, but an infiltrator doesn't have the stealth ability to avoid detection without parkour and massive mobility...mobility that LAs have by default...I think it's a problem.

    Further, a LA can equip a load out to solo a heavily armored vehicle faster and more efficiently than a Heavy Assault or an Engi can...even if said engi/Heavy Assault is traited/geared for AV.

    ESFs and harassers can take out lightning "tanks" (using the term very loosely) with anti-infantry weapons better than almost any other vehicle weapon in the game. Small Arms fire should never bother a Heavily armored tank.

    Potential Solution:

    AI vehicle weapons should do minimal damage to vehicles.

    Armor on Tanks - including lightnings - should be able to withstand small arms or AI weapon fire.

    LAs need to be balanced with other classes...not necessarily nerfed...But they should never outshine a Heavy Assault or an engi when it comes to both classes primary roles.

    Right now an experienced certed LA outshines both Heavy Assaults and Engis in an anti vehicle role and outshines Infiltrators in CQC Ambush roles...in fact, with flashlights they're the hard counters to both CQC infiltrators and long range snipers.

    While these aren't the only balance problems...they do represent the major ones.

    I'm not saying I have all, or even the correct solutions...However, the balance problem is definitely an issue and unless its meaningfully addressed...this game will die sooner than later.

    Thoughts?
  2. Scr1nRusher

    C4 against Heavy Armor(Not Light Armor,MAX's & Infantry) needs its damage reduced by 50%.

    Thats all they need to do.
    • Up x 2
  3. Titanshells

    It's not really C4 if it's half the damage. Might as well lob a grenade at the vehicle.
    • Up x 1
  4. FateJH

    [IMG]
    To be fair, we've gone on long discussions about whether what we're tossing is actually C-4 or whether C-4 has simply become a product-associating name like Q-tip for cotton swabs or Kleenex for tissues. The best we've got is "it's space C-4."

    Make C-4 toss then detonate required. No chain throwing, is what I mean. As soon as the death is not instantaneous, and reaction is at least conceivable, though still futile, it becomes much easier to stomach. In addition, neither side of the engagement has gained or lost anything - they're still stuck in the exact same positions as before, whether it was a vulnerable one or a strong one.
  5. Scr1nRusher


    C4 is EXTREMELY strong per brick.

    So are you saying that unless C4 is EXTREMELY STRONG, its not C4?

    hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
  6. adamts01

    I'm still trying to imagine how a flashlight could be a hard counter to a long range sniper....
    • Up x 2
  7. Metalsheep

    Personally as far as C4 is concerned, I would like to see it changed to being a Placed Object like a Mana/Spitfire turret or constructible object. Or like the old school ammo pack for engineers.

    This way a Light Assault (Or any player really) is required to LAND and PLANT both charges onto the vehicle. Instead of just tossing C4 over walls, off roofs or from the sky.

    In my opinion C4 is pretty much the sole reason that tanks sit back and shell at bases. Its basically suicide to get in close and support the infantry in an assault or in a defense. As soon as you get near any kind of building or high obstacle, your chances of getting C4ed go up immensely. I feel like if C4 was nerfed, vehicles would get more up close and personal. Thus putting them more in the area for HA rockets, Rocklets and MAX units to deal damage. A tank driver isn't too afraid to wade in and take a few hits, but they are indeed afraid of getting instantly vaporized by C4 from almost any possible angle.

    -

    I've also always found it rather amusing that LAs are better most times at infiltrating bases and staying undetected than Infiltrators are. Though Stalker cloak has given cloakers a bit more ability to do so effectively, they still sacrifice their primary weapon slot and risk being detected by an observant player or a darklight flashlight.

    Though, if you equip a darklight on any of your weapons, you are not benefitting from any other rail slot. So in a way, even though it can detect clockers, you are nerfing yourself in a sense.

    -

    As far as Harassers go, I've always been fine with them. They are teamwork oriented vehicles with a dedicated driver/gunner set up. Which I believe will ALWAYS be better than a Driver IS Gunner setup. A harasser will almost always have better evasion, and ability to hit accurately while moving than a player who is trying to do both at the same time. A 2/2 MBT has the sheer firepower to possibly gun down a harasser before its too late, but it suffers from the driver also needing to gun. A 1/1 Lightning should lose regularly to a 2/2 Harasser.

    If I had my way, MBTs would be the same as harassers, with a dedicated driver/dedicated gunners setup like it was in PS1. I think Harassers would regularly get crushed by MBTs in that kind of scenario.
    • Up x 1
  8. Mojo_man

    ^ This.

    C4 isn't just good, it's GREAT at killing literally anything that isn't flying. And sometimes it's even usable for that.
    • Up x 1
  9. Eternaloptimist

    It is easy to see why the victim of C4 thinks it is OP as they only experience the bang that kills them. I understand how that feels. But the LA experiences many failed attacks and deaths to deliver his one-shot package at CQC or point blank range.

    If C4 was as easy and effective to use as people think there wouldn't be any tanks left after a couple of minutes of battle. Reasonably experienced players know how to avoid it. Pretty much everything in the game except the Gal can be insta killed by something. I don't understand why tanks should be exempt from that so long as they have a counter like movement, awareness, speed, radar, a second pair of eyes in some cases, a top gun, a long range main gun.............

    It is widely claimed that LA is probably the hardest class to play. And I've seen some indication that it is the least played class across all servers - someone posted an analysis a while back. This is certainly my experience (I'm not a dedicated LA as I play most of the other classes too). LA is agile but fragile and a lot of fun but survivability? not great.

    The C4 thing has been over hyped imho.
  10. Titanshells

    The whole point of C4 is to be a powerful explosive. It has no use if it does not excel at it's intended purpose.
  11. Diilicious

    theres excelling and then theres just being so good that all other alternatives are basically moot
    • Up x 1
  12. Titanshells

    That is a fair point.
    • Up x 2
  13. Littleman


    Forum posters take note: THIS is how you make a compelling argument for the balance of something.

    All the claims "it's just bull$#!% that a dude with a jetpack can vaporize a tank from the sky." The reply will always be, "look up and don't sit in one spot shelling away all damn day, scrub." And it's pretty true - the way to avoid the C4 fairies is to keep scooting around and occasionally looking to the sky with a Kobalt ready to swat some fairies, and especially avoid sitting below some tall object infantry can easily climb - when a combat medic C4's your ***, you know you screwed up. These little tips absolutely work. Occasionally a brick slips through, but statistically, that's going to happen. Get over it.

    However, THIS guy, the one I quoted above, he points out the meat of the problem, why it IS a problem, and got me to seriously reconsider my stance on C4 "being fine." It's currently the sole behavior influencing item in PS2 capable of keeping armor at bay and shelling from afar (which is frankly really boring.) Tanks are afraid to press forward into a location because they can be instantly vaporized from any angle. At least with rockets, if your tank gets vaporized, you understand it's because you wiggled your tanks exhaust port at their long and hard payload launcher. Can't blame anyone for capitalizing on that opportunity, but you can blame your allies for letting them get in that position.

    LA + C4, the degree of coverage necessary to be "safe" becomes overwhelming, to the point where there's always a good chance that LA will slip through. Granted, even WITHOUT C4, sitting still is still a bad idea, but at least without C4, a tank can move in with their infantry support and not suddenly just kind of blow up. And all because no one was looking at the sky for 4.3 seconds it took an LA to bound off a platform and drop 2 bricks... or the guy that was looking was just a terribad shot. An HA or two flanking to a tank's rear for a good shot - still rage inducing but also respectable. LA dropping C4 - not so much the latter, but still a lot of the former.
  14. 3Stan2112

    Since when does the Canister, Marauder, PPA, or Kobalt do ANY damage to Lightnings?
    • Up x 1
  15. Scr1nRusher



    C4 does more damage to Tank's then Tank Mines.

    LET THAT SINK IN.
  16. Kopulator

    I've seen small arms do damage to a lightning.
  17. Scr1nRusher


    Small arms can't at all.
  18. cobaltlightning

    I think he's referring to the Archer, which counts as a Small Arms weapon.
  19. FateJH

    They can't. The Lightning has 100% resistance to the damage types to which those weapons belong. For example, the second entry in the second table is Small Arms and that encompasses almost all Infantry rifles, save the Archer for an exception, and all types of Kobalts. All Mauraders use the P525 Maurader entry in the second table. All Canisters use the C85 Canister entry just above that.

    The only example of this I've seen is either a Deep Freeze or a Fireworks gun shot that gave its operator what appears to be credit for Lightning destruction. The shot itself still didn't damage the vehicle at all. It was already slowly burning to death at the time and was let to burn to explode after the shot. (I don't think it works on Live but I'd be willing to listen to someone try.)

    No, it's not. By damage type, it does NS-AM7 Archer type damage (second to last-entry of the second table in link above).
    • Up x 1
  20. 3Stan2112

    No, you have not.
    • Up x 1