Confirmed, shotguns are not viable on PTS.

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by LaughingDead, Nov 30, 2016.

  1. LaughingDead

    So it's more or less a flaregun.
    I'm not even joking, the viability of a shotgun on PTS is practically a flaregun as a primary.

    In fact the shotgun is so bloody nonviable that I'm going to call it the new PPA. Yep, that bad.

    Good luck in 3 years shotguns.
    • Up x 1
  2. glitchaj

    Let's hope this doesn't make it to live.
    • Up x 2
  3. Ziggurat8

    It's gonna take some time. At least they are looking at shotguns. But I think changing the spread and damage at the same time is probably not a great idea. Tune the spread, see how it fares. If it's too much then tone down damage. Maybe give shotguns 2x HS damage with the reduced damage model if it is actually more accurate.
  4. JKomm

    Are you kidding me? They are vastly superior now. They maintain a 2-body-shot kill within 5m, and have an effective range out to 20-30m. How in any way is that non-viable? The recoil? Compensate, it's absolutely easy to get use to the high recoil.
    • Up x 1
  5. LaughingDead

    5 meters, right, when they work out to 10 on live? And how the hell are they viable at 20-30 meters? I wouldn't even consider shotgun infil (if you could actually do it) as it is on pts, SMGs are almost strictly better now, the only thing that shotguns could possibly do better is one shot headshot, no wait, damage does not work out to that either.

    Guess I'll just count down til I never have to worry about another shotgun, but that pretty much means nothing considering I don't play against shotgunners that win in the first place. If shotguns had a chance to be competitive viable before they certainly don't look that way now.

    But shotguns are not completely disparaged, they are on PTS as of now aka change cental. If they are going to live as it is now then I will simply never use a shotgun that isn't mounted on something mechanical again and never worry about a shotgunner incoming, they change then I'll simply judge then, win win....well lose win.

    On one hand I absolutely hate something part of the game being useless, PPA even if I wasn't VS biased still pisses me off that it was bad for such a long time, when zoe was nerfed into the ground same thing, when banshee was buffed, sure I was a bit glad, then light ppa and AH got nerfed, bit mad, when rotaries were changed granted I was a bit annoyed because I didn't know how they would turn out, but they were well managed.
    So one entire weapon catagory, cut off from interaction is like... gah, it's so heinous I can't even think of an analogy.
  6. JKomm

    Did you not ADS with them? Shotguns now all have their own little Smart-Choke, they also have a massively improved minimum damage... you can kill a target with the Mauler out to 30m with around 8 shells. This is a MASSIVE improvement.
  7. Ghoest

    I havent used a shot gun in over a year i think - so this isnt me campaigning for favorite weapon.

    Why do think think shot guns need a nerf?

    They are fine as they are - powerful at point blank and sucky at all other ranges.
    • Up x 1
  8. CapEnTrade

    Shotguns are fine, if anything they needed more range. If you get killed by a shotgun;
    1. Your awareness sucks -- you suck.
    2. You got too close to a guy with a shotgun -- you suck.
    3. You were outperformed by the other player -- you suck compared to him/her.
    4. He was waiting for you!
  9. Gundem



    Viable out to 20-30 meters?

    I'm sorry but I find that hard to swallow. I've ran simulations before that show with invariable consistency that in order for shotguns to be viable at those ranges, they would need pellet spread in the 1-1.5 range.
    • Up x 1
  10. JKomm

    Simulations? Because I just went on PTS, and fired at targets... shotguns now have a sort of built-in Smart-Choke as well as a massively buffed minimum damage. They are extraordinarily better for greater ranges... up to, I found, 20-30m. This comes at a cost of lower maximum damage which still results in a 2-body-shot kill for users who aim more proficiently. The weapons are made highly skillful as well as more ranged, this is an amazing rebalance(I'm not calling it a nerf, nor a buff).
  11. Demigan

    I also just went on PTS.

    Average TTK for killing a non-moving target while using ADS and perfect accuracy on the torso: 6 to 10 shots, most of the time it was just 8 shots flat.

    That's a TTK of 2,1 seconds flat and a nearly empty barrel assuming you fired them all in one go instead of firing them one at a time in perfect conditions and assuming RNGesus was in your favor during your unload. In the meantime weapons like Carbines/LMG's/AR's barely even start to become less effective and have TTK's well below the second.
    A few tries firing as fast as possible in ADS resulted in around 8 to 10 shots per kill, meaning you empty your magazine (assuming you don't use the extended magazine) for a single kill on 20m, while still being completely at a disadvantage.
    The spread improvement while ADS is marginal at best. I usually got the same 8 to 10 shots per kill when hipfiring, making the use of ADS a liability as you only slow yourself down for easier target practice by your enemy, giving them even better odds at killing you before you get close to killing them. Maybe the use of a laser-sight is to "blame", but it does speak volumes that the ADS, which makes you a better target, is barely functional for shotguns.
    In the meantime the damage has been altered so that you can't OHK anymore with a headshot. One full headshot deals 900 damage, just enough to kill an Infiltrator. But ofcourse people don't tend to stand still and wait for you to headshot them and since you have to aim slightly upwards from knifing distance it's easy to accidentally hit the chest with a few shots, meaning even the infiltrator is likely to survive a full headshot from CQC distance.


    So all in all shotguns do get more range and better capabilities to actually kill something, but the TTK is so incredibly low and the range effectively still so short that it's not really worth using for longer ranges anyway and you might as well have stuck with the old shotguns. In closer ranges there's less RNGesus and a more consistent TTK. However since missing a single pellet with each shot puts your TTK higher than that of Carbines a shotgun is essentially worthless at it's role since even with pinpoint accuracy there's still a high chance that RNGesus sends a single pellet off target every time.
    Actually they've done it. Shotguns are now 100% a noob weapon like everyone claims. If you can't aim and your enemy can't aim you can hit them more often due to the pellet spread, but there's no way to really excel with shotguns as the minimum amount of shots required is 2 shots now which barely gives you a better TTK than Carbines. In the meantime Carbines are much easier to use at multiple ranges.


    Edit: At 30m distance it was a 10+ kill, meaning you'll be likely reloading during that time.
  12. LaughingDead

    You definition of viable is magdumping and killing a dude at 30 meters, why should a shotgun strive for range if it doesn't have the damage?

    I'm not going to even go into how ridiculous this is, it's like prebuff ranger viable, hell I got kills with the ranger but god damn did it feel weaksauce.
    • Up x 2
  13. YouWannaGetHigh

    I could kill a guy at 30 meters before this nerf as well, just reload and shoot again, they'll die eventually. That's not the point. You shouldn't be, couldn't be and won't be engaging a guy who is 30 meters away from you if you're holding a weapon with the TTK of 3 seconds at 30 meters.
    That's where your logic fails. They are NOT good at range now. They are good at range compared to how they were. They still suck at 30 meters compared to any weapon out there. I'd rather pull out my Commisioner to engage a guy 30 meters away from me. Because it is superiorly more effective than a shotgun. They buffed a close quarters weapon in long range and nerfed it's close quarters potential. They named it "Now it takes skill" to hide the fact that they nerfed something that is not OP at all.
    You can be as skillful as you want, if you attack a heavy assault with a shotgun 30 meters away from you, he will kill you, provided he has a brain that functions normally.
    • Up x 2
  14. CrimsonEclipse5

    So long as it applies to the Jackhammer, I'm ok if shotguns get nerfed. If it doesn't apply to the Jackhammer, then I'm gonna have to call DBG out for massive NC bias.
  15. Liewec123

    lol the PTS jackhammer feels like a monster :p
    it had a damage and pellet nerf, but you can't feel it under the awesomeness of 0 CoF bloom on the 3xBurst and the massive increase to magazine size.

    also folks, use slugs to bypass the damage nerf, slugs still maintain the stalwart 2 shot kill in cqc that they currently have on live :)
  16. Demigan

    Yes because screwing over an entire weapon line just to nerf a single weapon is a great way to handle it!
    My allergies against stupid are acting up again...


    @topic.
    Does anyone see the irony of making shotguns "require skill" while actually reducing the rewards for skill and making it the noob weapon everyone always made it out to be?
    I mean, you arent rewarded for a headshot, you arent rewarded for trigger discipline, you are barely if at all rewarded for using ADS and while results are more consistent they are consistently LOWER than other weapons that function better at range as well.

    The only skill you need is the patience to put up with this horrendous and badly disguised nerf.
  17. kr47er


    I'm sorry but I smell it going live

    maybe the reason behind this nerfs is that they will give shotguns the same airborne benefit as the ones carbines are getting now.
  18. CrimsonEclipse5



    As someone who recently tried out the Deimos, having previously had lackluster experiences with the Thanatos and Pandora, I can sympathise with the ******** spread problems that shotguns suffer from. With that being said, in 3 days I racked up 900 kills with the Deimos. PASGs seem to perform extremely well in terms of KPH (at least for me anyway). Also the Jackhammer is a PITA. Does that justify nerfing an entire weapon class? No. But from some stats posted in one of the many other threads ******** about this change ON THE TEST SERVER: No-one uses shotguns to begin with. I mean, the ideal outcome would be shotguns being left where they are, and nerfing the Jackhammer (the weapon class is far too cheesy for a fix to the pellet spread to be justified - no OHK weapon should be 100% reliable)
  19. Demigan

    The ideal outcome would be improving shotguns as they are so that people actually use them.
    Also the Jackhammer is about as powerful as the chaingun if you look at the stats. So if you want to nerf the Jackhammer so bad you need to nerf the chaingun as well.
    Besides that weapons like the Sweeper shotgun score similarly as the Jackhammer, so if you have a problem with the Jackhammer you also need to have a problem with the Sweeper, yet you want to nerf an entire weapon line just to nerf the Jackhammer.
  20. CrimsonEclipse5


    Forgive me if I don't trust the word of an NC player that the Jackhammer performs as poorly as the MCG, but where can I look at these stats?