NC need some love

on cobalt vs is rarely overpop (atleast not during primetime). normally it is something like VS 32%, NC 34% and TR 34%. A few days ago TR was 40% while VS had 29% and NC 31%. But like you said, it's like clockwork

The thing is though, you don't want to nerf strategy. It's a solid move to push the weak team and get those warpgate points. There are plenty of other examples where it's not in your faction's best interest to fight the high pop faction. I think rewarding players an insane amount of XP for sticking with the underdogs would be the best move.

I believe that it may be, though I don't have too much experience outside of the harasser, having primarily only ever gunned for a Vanguard when the opportunity arises. Initial impressions of the three ESFs seems to me that the Scythe is extremely easy to use, but I don't know.

While the NC are definitely rather stupid, I think it mostly just comes down to a confirmation bias. It's very easy to watch an other player fail in some way and then solely blame him for what could have been an impossible task. I think, for myself at least, I get annoyed when I see large amounts of NC die quickly, but I never even bat an eye when the NC steam-role a base and slaughter 20 enemies in a row.

I would also suspect that for both NC and those that oppose them being constantly told that they are all incredibly stupid really only serves to strengthen such a bias.

I think that the NC's infantry weapons are more or less OK. Aside from the ridiculous inaccuracy that plagues effectively every weapon in the game anyway. (And the shotguns.)

overpop-faction gets more total resource than underpop-faction.
Increase the time to acquire resources for balancing.

I love waking up in the morning knowing that we got our *** kicked over night again We should beat the record one day and play with 60% TR, 35% Vanu and 5% nc

I'd like to add something regarding the stats.

Looking at the Harasser stats:
For reference, the statistics are distributed in the following way: KPU / KPH / Avg. VKPU / Avg. VKPH / Avg. BR

Saron / Gatekeeper / Enforcer:
VS: 4,21 / 31,28 / 3,16 / 23,43 / 69,7
TR: 4,02 / 22,69 / 3,65 / 20,55 / 65,0
NC: 4,33 / 26,89 / 3,84 / 24,23 / 70,7
The TR are the clear losers in this department, while also being the lowest average BR. The NC are the most effective in all regards except KPH, which is to be expected as the Saron is the better AI weapon.

Aphelion / Vulcan / Mjolnir:
VS: 4,95 / 27,35 / 4,29 / 24,09 / 70,0
TR: 4,02 / 22,69 / 3,65 / 20,55 / 65,0
NC: 3,71 / 23,16 / 4,33 / 27,12 / 68,8
I'd argue that the TR are the losers in this department again, while also being the lowest average BR. The only position they aren't dead-last is KPU. The NC, not being the highest BR in this department, are pretty much even with a slight advantage for the VS, with the VS winning the KPU/KPH while the NC take VKPH significantly.

PPA / Marauder / Canister:
VS: 5,94 / 91,66 / 0,23 / 3,78 / 80,3
TR: 12,04 / 125,56 / 0,37 / 3,7 / 81,9
NC: 9,77 / 118,33 / 0,36 / 4,46 / 79,3
The PPA is clearly the weakest in this area, hands down, which was to be expected. The Canister gives the Marauder a good run for its money, seemingly being worse against infantry in general, while perhaps being a more effective AV weapon. TR slightly higher average BR.

I wouldn't state that the NC Harasser performs worse than the Harasser of the other 2 factions, on the contrary, it seems like they are in a decent spot. But it is of course based upon my own opinion and interpretation of the data.

Basilisk:
VS: 1,70 / 12,91 / 0,65 / 5,01 / 30,8
TR: 1,88 / 14,15 / 0,81 / 5,39 / 33,6
NC: 1,87 / 14,34 / 0,68 / 5,22 / 35,2
More or less even between the TR/NC. The VS are the clear losers here, as can also be expected by the average BR, and this being a beginner-weapon, should be impacted the most.

Halberd:
VS: 4,71 / 34,88 / 2,65 / 19,64 / 79,8
TR: 4,36 / 35,51 / 2,42 / 19,72 / 78,0
NC: 4,27 / 31,22 / 2,61 / 18,98 / 76,5
The NC are performing slighly worse than their VS/TR counterparts, but are also slightly lower average BR.

Fury:
VS: 5,84 / 95,59 / 0,66 / 11,24 / 80,3
TR: 5,15 / 104,28 / 0,64 / 13,8 / 73,9
NC: 6,07 / 79,34 / 0,85 / 11,29 / 81
The NC are the highest avg. BR but still exhibit a performance that is (in my opinion) inferior to the VS/TR. The TR are by far the lowest BR, but kill the fastest (but the least amount of kills / life), implying the lower BR's rush in headlessly more often. The TR are also likely exhibiting a slight advantage due to having the Marauder in their arsenal, meaning they are likely to be slightly more experienced using the "small-grenade"-throwers/launchers.

Kobalt:
VS: 6,23 / 111,69 / 0,13 / 2,41 / 81,1
TR: 5,97 / 102,99 / 0,10 / 1,82 / 81,1
NC: 8,06 / 103,71 / 0,17 / 2,09 / 73,9
The NC are by far the lowest average BR, but they are still performing on par with the other two factions.

As can be seen by these stats, there isn't much difference between the factions when using NS weapons, but there are of course outliers, like the TR being far more effective with the Fury, or how the NC are performing slightly worse with the Halberd. Added to the ES-weapon data, I personally don't believe there is a case for arguing the NC Harasser is underperforming compared to the competitors. I'd love to see how the new Mjolnir/Enforcer/GK etc. changes fully impacts the stats further down the line.

Regarding the MBT stats: The stats clearly show the Prowlers primary weapons performing the highest and that the Magriders primary weapons are outperforming the Vanguards slightly. It should also be noted that the VS have the highest avg. BR, while the NC have the lowest avg. BR. The overperformance of the Prowlers primary weapons is of course to be expected due to the increased effectiveness of the tank as a 1/2 platform, and the higher likelihood of scoring the killing blow with the primary weapons even WITH a secondary gunner.

The Prowlers secondary weapons are underperforming significantly compared to the competitors, exemplified by the Halberd stats below:
VS: 6,03 / 26,32 / 3,41 / 14,93 / 74,1
NC: 5,02 / 23,76 / 2,65 / 12,66 / 66,2
TR: 3,80 / 23,43 / 1,69 / 10,63 / 64,7

The VS have far higher average BR gunners, which should skew the stats in their favor. The Magriders total DPS is also skewed the most towards the secondary weapons, meaning the secondary weapons have a far higher likelihood of scoring the killing blow. The exact interplay between the primary/secondary weapons, and therefore a valid ratio has not been discovered (and likely never will) and therefore I personally find it hard to claim that the Vanguard is overall performing worse than the others. They each shine in different aspects of the game, but those areas can also have different impacts on the game depending on how you are.

If you are like me, the farming capabilities of the Prowler aren't very interesting, as that is typically performed against the worst of the enemy faction (the ones allowing themselves to be farmed), and I prefer to leave the "farmable" kills for other members of my faction (of which there are plenty of). I prefer to hunt the more valuable targets, and generally stay away from the huge zergs, preferring to stay on the outskirts, moving in/out of the fray via flanking maneuvers. For such a play-style I personally find the Vanguard (for the ability to easily win the 1v1's or 1v2's you are able to force on the flanks) or the Magrider (for the mobility, for being the tank best suited to keeping chase in rough terrain, for being able to come from "anywhere" etc.) more effective than the Prowler.

But yes, for the average Joe in a tank (typically being 1/2), the Prowler is likely to be the highest bang for his buck. I personally just find the myriad of complaints towards the Vanguard to be pretty tiring.

--http://ps2oraclestats.com/monthlystats/ (For easy reference.)

Well these stats do seem to favor the NC, they have been quite stretched by the actual number of users. The NC's Mjolnir-H (165 average uniques) and Enforcer-H (226 average uniques) are used considerably less than the TR's Vulcan-H (643 average uniques) and Gatekeeper-H (419 average uniques). They also have less average hours of use compared to the TR's variants as well.

Yes, it is safe to say that the PPA-H isn't really too much of a competitor. However as the stats you provided yourself show, the Canister-H performs worse in almost all categories than the Marauder-H does, with the only exceptions being 0.76 higher vehicle kills/hour (though not /user), 0.08 higher air kills/hour (again, but not /user), and the arguably most important stat, 0.128% higher headshot kills.

All the while the Marauder-H achieves 2.27 higher average KPU and 7.23 higher KPH. Not to mention 1232 more kills. I would not call such a large gap "a run for its money," but I'd settle for that being a personal opinion on the matter and just take the stats at face value. The general ease of use has also not been brought into play, but that's for another time.

The Basilisk-H is interesting, as all the stats do point to the VS being generally worse with it than the TR & VS, with no real indicator as to why. They do have the least users, but only by double-digits. The Halberd-H, Fury-H, Kobalt-H are more or less unremarkable, but still interesting in a purely statistical way, in my opinion. As you said though, all three factions perform more or less the same.

Personally, I believe the NC's "harasser-weakness" comes from their strongest weapon being the Halberd-H, while having inferior range than the TR & VS. (Though, we will have to see what the recent changes to the GK will do long-term.)

The Prowler is the top dog, undeniably. The claim I make here is more so just a scrap between the Vanguard and Magrider for second place. However, the point has been argued long and hard many times before, and when it hits the bottom line the only things the Vanguard really has over the competition are slightly higher front & sides resistances, the (arguable) shield, and the best AA cannon. It is also paired with the NC's lackluster AV secondary weapons. The Enforcer's has only 22 more average uniques than the NC's Halberd while having a blanket reduction in performance across the board. The Mjolnir almost doesn't even make the list, being the least used ES secondary weapon in the game. It also gets 63 less average kills than the NC's Kobalt.

The semi-recent video that was uploaded to these forums actually really provided a new and interesting light on this idea. The video of which I refer to is the MBT DPS live comparison video, which I'm sure you may have seen. In said video, a deployed prowler was able to out-DPS a shielded Vanguard (though just barely) from the front, both open-firing at the same time. I believe they were both stock. (?)

In any case, personally I'd prefer the higher DPS when seeking high-value targets, being able to come as close to a guaranteed kill as possible before they can escape or be supported by their allies. The sluggish and moderate DPS Vanguard wouldn't likely achieve the same success. Though of course, that is just my own personal opinion.

I just think NC needs better players.

When they have "good" players playing, they tend to do well. I can tell instantly the quality of players regardless of population.


But, here's an interesting caveat:

I play all three empires fairly equally. I have three characters ranging from 98 to 80 something, VS, NC, TR. I'm very average and pretty consistent across the board stat-wise, but one stat stood out: damage ratio per minute or damage done versus damage received.

My TR and VS are identical, but my NC is 30 damage lower.

I play EXACTLY the same across all factions. I have exactly the same unlocks, use the same equipment, etc. So why is that stat different for NC?
Why do I take more damage per damage given with NC while my TR and VS are identical?

Idk. How often do you get shot in the back by your own teammates?

Certainly GK is too strong but I think the balance of ground weapons is not bad so far. infantry too.
The problem is that NC can not use the Air Force. Smart players do not want to use a weak Reaver.

It's funny you mention that, and maybe I'm an outlier, but I get TKed more playing TR than any other faction. I get TKed the least while playing VS.

In any case, TKing has nothing to do with that discrepancy. The only thing I can put my finger on is the slow rof, generally speaking. My accuracy is consistent across all factions.

******* flock to VS because the Scythe does have definite advantages, but it really comes down to skill and coordination when air is concerned, neither of which seem to be NC's strong suit. The Reaver is my favorite but least played ESF, I'm trying to get Connery pilots together if anyone is interested.

Ok !! We can clearly see all this establishment lobby pulling some imaginary numbers out of magical hat !!

if numbers shown by some of people here were actually true i would see hundreds of NC spaming vanguards and harrasers and camping other factions by their warpgate... but guess what,,, somehow faction known by skilled lvl 100 players with pink skins dont find those vehicles any usefull in comparison to other faction vehicles !!

Lets not be afraid of the following words/sentences:

- Pro Vanu Lobby
- Secret TR abusing poor nc agenda
- False numbers on NC on forums
- Highly Underpowered poor NC
- Overpopulated TR
- Scythe solo kills 3x skyguard and dont even catch a fire

Dear NC's !! Lets make this world fair back again !! Lets show some love to underpowered unloved NC !!

Err what??
Only thing clear in this thread is that FPS players have serious victimised mentalities and will do anything to make themselves feel better about their 'skill level'.

Ive seen a Reaver take on 2 scythes and win.
Ive seen Vanguards destroy entire armour columns.
Ive seen a handful of NC hold a base against an onslaught of TR.

The only 'difference' in the factions is that the NCs weapons are a tiny tiny bit more difficult to use......at first.
So NC has less able newbies than the other factions.
Once you put 5-10 mins into the feel of a weapon you can play on par with any VS or TR of similar skill level.

No faction has more 'stuuupiiid' players.
No faction has all the MLGleet mode players
No faction has very good leadership and coordination (at least not the 5 different ones ive played on) outside of outfits doing their thing.

we need less incompetent nc on Cobalt, only 2 outfits can gal drop on base, the rest of players are Lemmings.
there only 1 reason why NC losing base to solo players - they see bases population: "yay, 48 players here, they will defend it.." and all 48 players was thinking the same...

NC has the best infantry weapons at least of all factions. However, they are also the most specialized and require the player to adhere to the correct engagement range. This is where I see 90% of the NC population falter and of course they would. Only veterans know how to make sure that they're fighting at their weapon's engagement range and bursting it effectively. NC weapons are the least user friendly for the average player but the most powerful in the hands of an experienced player.

This in itself theoretically constitutes a balance, however in a game where strength in numbers is at least just as important as individual skill the few NC's who do it right cannot cope with all those NC's who do it wrong.

Aye, but when they are used, they use it pretty effectively. Another aspect that has to be considered is that these data aren't taking the new changes fully into account, as "old" data is still involved. My guess, after the Mjolnir/Enforcer buffs, that they will both be used more often than those numbers indicate, AND they will be more effective. Just because a weapon is used more, doesn't make it more effective, but rather that the weapon has gotten more exposure. Things such as ease of use will of course also have an impact. The GK is pretty easy to use, but isn't that effective (even in the hands of experienced players), which is reflected in the stats.

The average hours of use (while having competitive stats) imply that the TR generally spend a longer time in their vehicles, but aren't really killing anymore than the others are in significantly less time spent.

For ease of comparison, I've translated your numbers to percentages. The Marauder achieves a 23,2% higher KPU, a 6,11% higher KPH, but the Canister has a 20,5% higher VKPH compared to the Marauder. Just showing the flat numbers can be pretty misleading without context if you ask me.
So, in short, the Marauder-H stays alive longer but doesn't kill significantly faster than the Canister-H, which results in it killing a higher amount of people per user. Meanwhile the Canister stays alive shorter, but doesn't kill slower, resulting in a lower total number of kills per user. Considering that, in less time, the Canister can kill as many vehicles as the Marauder needs significantly more time doing, the Canister performs equally to the Marauder in regards to AI-capabilities.

I honestly don't lend too much weight to the total number of kills, as so many things influence such a number. I'd personally argue KPU/KPH are much more relevant, but that is of course just my opinion.

My wording was phrased as it is due to the Marauder winning the AI-department, while the Canister wins the AV-department handily. I agree that it was perhaps a bit too optimistic, but my opinion regarding the AI weapons is that the PPA is clearly too weak, while the Marauder is a bit too strong (this is of course ONLY relevant for the Harasser-variants).
It should be noted that when it comes to the Marauder/Canister, the largest difference between the weapons seems to be the amount of time they can stay alive, which could imply that the Canister has to move in closer in order to reach its targets. But I don't see a much higher effectiveness for the Marauder personally.

Well technically they are lower average BR, meaning the players using them are typically slightly worse than the ones using the TR/NC variants. How much of a difference/impact that has, is up for discussion though of course. I would've assumed the difference seen between the VS and TR should also be present between the TR and NC, but it doesn't seem so. Perhaps the VS numbers are based more upon the "average" newbie, while the TR/NC stats are muddled slightly by higher-BR players meddling. Hard to say.

The Kobalt-H however, shows the NC being blatantly lower average BR, but they still perform competively with the other two factions higher BR'ed players, in fact, they flat out destroy the stats when compared to their TR counterparts.

I honestly don't think the NC have significantly shorter range than the VS, as the Saron is pretty pitifuly when used at long range. Sure, you can hit once every ½ second, but your shots aren't really dealing a high amount of damage, and your DPS therefore suffers immensely. The Saron is a short-med range burst weapon in my opinion, and NOT a long-ranged weapon. I'd personally rather have the Enforcer over the Saron for such cases, ESPECIALLY after the recent changes. The GK will start dropping further in effectiveness, and anyone still complaining about it really needs to L2P in my opinion (I know its rough, but honestly, the weapon is so easy to counterplay, and the ranges where it has the advantage, are useless in my opinion).

If you only refer to 1/2 tanks and their performance then sure. Otherwise, I'm not convinved, and it certainly isn't "undeniably". The Prowlers primary weapons are overperforming, yes, which is to be expected due to how the platform itself is designed. The secondary weapons however, are underforming similarly.

It also has a higher alpha-strike, enabling it to kill certain vehicles in less shots if they've already taken damage. It also allows you to simply deal more damage before a potential target reacts and takes the appropriate countermeasures (like turning their rear away from you). I personally believe that the Shield is both massively overrated, but also underrated at the same time. One thing to consider about the Shield, is that while the Shield itself isn't always crazily strong/effective in a given fight (due to whatever reason is relevant in that situation), the threat alone of the Shield can be enough to deter enemies from charging you, which could keep you alive (even if the Shield isn't even ready, since your enemy might not know). There are definitely situations where I would've gladly rushed a Magrider/Prowler from the flank, due to me knowing I can kill it quickly and get out in time before the allies react, but a Vanguard simply requires more time to take out. The psychological effect of the Shield shouldn't be underrated at least.

There is also the fact that the tanks simply exhibit different playstyles, where the Vanguards "intuitive use" lies closer to charging in headfirst, whereas it doesn't come as naturally for the average Prowler driver, which also has an effect on the stats.

Really? That's not what I see when looking at the stats. Let's take a look:

For reference, the statistics are distributed in the following way: KPU / KPH / Avg. VKPU / Avg. VKPH / Avg. BR
Saron / Gatekeeper / Enforcer:
VS: 4,56 / 21,13 / 2,94 / 13,72 / 62,9
TR: 3,70 / 17,74 / 2,11 / 10,05 / 54,1
NC: 3,78 / 19,06 / 2,51 / 12,7 / 57

As can be seen, the Saron is outperforming the two alternatives, but the average user is also significantly higher BR, which could explain it. As I mentioned before, the Magriders relationship between the primary/secondary weapons also favor the secondary weapons the most, meaning the Saron has a higher likelihood of scoring the killing blow. The Enforcer is slightly outperforming the Gatekeeper (but the Enforcer has a higher likelihood of scoring the killing blow) and a slightly higher BR, meaning these weapons seem like (to me) that they are performing more or less equally. I don't see how the numbers could indicate the Enforcer is performing noticably worse than the other factions alternatives. Or did you mean that the Enforcer performs worse than the Halberd? The Halberd is generally the most effective weapon out there, for all factions.

Aphelion / Vulcan / Mjolnir:
VS: 3,14 / 17,54 / 2,18 / 12,12 / 61,7
TR: 2,78 / 17,90 / 1,68 / 10,80 / 57,8
NC: 1,92 / 14,36 / 1,60 / 11,83 / 49,6

The Aphelion is generally considered the most effective and versatile of the CQC-ESAV weapons, which is reflected in the stats. It of course has a higher likelihood of scoring the killing blow compared to say, the Vulcan, which also impacts the stats in the Aphelions favor. Yeah, the NC are performing the worst here, but the sample size is miniscule, and the average BR is significantly lower. The Mjolnir arguably needed a buff, which it has gotten. I'm looking forward to see how the buff changes the effectiveness from a statistical point-of-view.

Keep in mind that all these numbers are more or less based upon the old versions of the weapons. After the changes, I would expect things to be shaken up quite a bit, as the Enforcer and Mjolnir have gotten significant buffs, whereas the Aphelion has been changed and the GK has been nerfed

If I'm not mistaken, that video also involved secondary weapons, and was only relevant for 1/2 tanks was it not? It's honestly not news that the Prowler wins any 1/2 duel. Then keep in mind this assumes the Prowler is allowed to remain stationary, which only really happens at longer ranges when it comes to frontal duels. At longer ranges you can always just reset the fight if you aren't confident. At shorter ranges, the Prowler will be forced to un-anchor or simply die (or not get the kill because the enemy retreated behind cover). That isn't even including the secondary gunners.

Aye we are all different in our preferences. Keep in mind that my playstyle doesn't involve sticking to allies, as I generally prefer the flanking play-style typically forcing me to break off from the zerg for the best effect. This means you are often forced to rely on only your own crew (or perhaps a single "wingman" tank), and therefore you have to be able to deal with pretty much anything, including things going wrong. If I'm confident that not a single enemy will detect or notice me, or I always had significant backup, I would prefer the Prowler, but that generally isn't the case. I find the Prowler to be excellent as far as people aren't shooting back at you, but as soon as people do that, I find its effectiveness drops significantly. If an aircraft engages me on the flanks, I'd much rather be in a Vanguard than a Prowler for instance.

Another thing to consider, I generally try to only engage targets I'm certain I can take out, as if I don't employ such tactics, it is VERY likely that anyone you leave alive, will come back and hunt you. The higher alpha makes it easier to insta-gib things just in time, or to land that one single shot to their rear while they are turning for maximum damage.

But if you are alone on the flanks, you might not have the luxury of being able to remain stationary and pump down lead in a solid stream, as it is incredibly easy for other enemies to notice you, especially compared to a tank that only has to fire once every 2½ - 4 seconds (Titan + Halberd). Exposure time also allows enemies to fire back, and having the ability to duck into/out of cover between reloads is a godsend if multiple enemies are firing at you, and you desperately need that ONE important target taken down.

It is also much easier to retain your situational awareness whilst keeping up your maximum DPS in a Vanguard/Magrider compared to a Prowler. Sure, such a thing isn't relevant for people sitting within zergs, but for anyone out there on the flanks doing actual tanking, it is quite a difference in my opinion. In extension to this point, I also find the Vanguard to be much better at firing on the move than the Prowler, simply because I have more time to set-up each shot, and to navigate between the shots.

Well i tried to play NC on Connery and it didn't go so well.
Not even 24 hours of play and i was annoyed.
Zero Leadership, Zero communication and to much
sitting around farming.

You guys can say whatever you want, pull whatever numbers you find in the internet, just go play nc for 1 day and you will see the difference. I started tr char today and guess what, trac-5 has better shooting range than my railjack, bulets dont fall off and i have enough ammo to kill 10 guys in a row. There is no way you can pull that numbers with best NC gun comparing to random basic tr weapon. The only reason i actually died here was because i run out of ammo, otherwise i would keep famin Certs. i bet 95% of you wont even know how to properly use NC weapon ...

This server absolutely sucks. It seems like everyone with any slight desire to play as part of a team has switched to VS. I'm committed to playing TR or NC because I'm not one to take the easy road, but it sucks. Maybe Reddit is a better place to organize things. I don't know. I'd love to be part of something that helps Connery become more competitive.