Losing nanite on c4

I hate losing nanites, especially on something i didnt use. Whenever i put bboth c4 ready fkr a kill, i get shot in the back mid way of pressing the detonator. Then, i lose nanites for a failed c4 attempt. I understand that it does make players think due to the fact that they will have a negative effect on their failed attempt, but ut honestly angers me.
My ideas were either no nanite cost, a lesser nanite cost, or just a faster destination time. The whole process seem so slow as your character pmaces one, then slowly brings out another. And oh so calmly presses the button in a battle field. Its not fun dying sue to a slow prep time, and even worse losing how ever many nanites on how ever many c4 that just vanished.

Simply put, if I pull a tank and it instantly dies, should I get a reroll?
If you're dying in your attempts, then you're simply paying the risk. A resource mechanic is in place to punish said failed attempts, that's simply part of the usage of it.

well he's a c4 user, so yes, thats exactly what he thinks. he wants to be able to use c4 with complete and total impunity, with absolutely no punishment for failure, while making sure the juicy exp pinatas that are tanks get screwed in any way possible

Ah explains it. But I'd still like to explain why it shouldn't be the case.

Really just equipping and spawning with it C4 should incur a cost. Did you get gunned down with that C4 in your back pocket? Sorry, but if you want to spawn with it again that's another 75/150 nanites.

As it is, C4 is one of the cheesiest and easiest ways to get kills. The average KDR for all those suicide attempts is at 1.13, meaning that chances are you're going to easily kill something with C4.

C4 is more lethal to MBTs than all HEAT cannons and even the Magrider AP cannon. C4 currently ranks as #3, 4, and 6 on the causes of MBT explosions (out of the top 10, C4 and AT mines occupy 6 spots).

That's why C4 should simply carry a cost to spawn. Suddenly, suicide charges that fail carry a significant cost of failure, not allowing mindless infantry to charge over and over again. This makes it more fair, because tankers do not get those unlimited second chances.

Highest kill streak I ever had was running my magrider. 78 kills. I typically run 15+ every time I pull a magrider. Please make it easier. I also usually run about 8 to 1 in my MAX suit with my second highest streak of 63 kills as a MAX. Please make every infantry out there nanite starved or else using medkits instead of C4.

Along with the idea of mines despawning for players that switch from engy class I should be just about unstoppable.

Yes please.

Right. Because you're every single tank in the game.
If infantry do not team up, they deserve to be punished, or are you simply a magrider replicating that one prowler video. Pretty sure it's the latter. In fact pull up a stats page, let's see them leet tank skillz

My name is the same. Ziggurat8 genudine server. Never seen kdr stats for my Mag so I'm just guessing.

I run solo with a FPC/PPA most of the time. Good for killing just about anything except 2/2 enemy mbts. The fact that the ppa will always orient the same way as your main gun as you turn the magrider makes it very easy to switch between main and secondary on the mag. Unlike the swivel turrets on the vanguard and prowler.

Vehicle? FPC gets it done. Infantry? Try to 1 shot with FPC, Swap to PPA fire a couple volleys if FPC misses or if it's several infantry. Swap to main to fire again or move as needed. It's very very good especially at taking down deployed sunderers. FPC will reload while you're mowing down infantry with PPA, just keep switching between the 2 until everything is dead.

C4 LA is the biggest threat in that scenario, pushes me back while they're flying at me. Takes my focus off the sundy and dodging HA rocket spam. If C4 was much rarer it would make all that much easier.

As a C4 enthusiast I approve this message.

You already get to pay nanites upon buying C4 and if you die with it in your pack it disappears with you just like your gun, helmet, armor, body, side-arm, special ability, medkits, grenades tools etc etc do.

Also there's a huge difference between infantry equipment and vehicles. Infantry equipment does not instantly transfer bonuses to your character. It only helps you for that short moment you use it.
A vehicle, any vehicle. Instantly offers you much much higher speeds, more resistances, more health, more firepower and unless you are in a Flash you also have more leniency with flanking since you can't be killed as easily and have more time to react than infantry, with the only exception being CQC C4.

With the current 22,9% average hitpercentage, that is when C4 is thrown at all, players already throw at least 4 C4 or 300 resources for one hit. On average for that double-hit on a vehicle they are throwing 8 C4 or 600 resources.

But ofcourse that's not enough for the vehicle players who want complete immunity to everything infantry and want to farm all day long without fear that their tunnel-vision will be a disadvantage.

Yeah! There's absolutely no accidental statpadding going on in the background that increases the K/D ratio because most players will immediately switch back to their primary if they are engaged and rarely die with C4 in hand!

Or are you really suggesting that a weapon that's pulled out of your backpack for mere seconds at a time when players can be almost certain of success isn't statpadded? It's like side-arms: They have similar ratings to primary weapons because they are pulled to finish the job, then immediately the primary weapon is selected again.

The thing that surprises me is that the K/D isn't higher because of this statpadding going on in the background.

So? Why are you surprised that the second-most expensive infantry AV weapon is in the top of MBT killers? Oh, because it's an infantry weapon destroying a big bad tank? Well newsflash, if you compare the price of C4 to PS2 tanks, these tanks are cheaper than new bicycles. As in "metal frame, no engine". And you are surprised that these can't withstand C4? Have you looked at the price of HEAT rounds in real-life lately? at several thousand a round they are much much more expensive than any C4 package... And you get them for free in PS2. So it's again a small wonder that C4 is stronger than HEAT or AP canons.

"Here's some numbers, I don't agree with those numbers, therefore C4 needs to get nerfed into the ground". That's basically the entire reasoning here.

I don't agree with OP, but the funny thing is that the OP actually uses the exact same reasoning as you do. He prefers one playstyle, and asks for that to be upgraded and have less downsides so he can enjoy it more without regard for how this will effect the overall gameplay. You do the exact same.

I think it would be alright if c4 was treated like mines are, they dont despawn if you respawn.
Make c4 defusable and add a Minimum Detonation Trigger range, like 35 m.

So any infantry has the time to move away from a spotted brick of c4 while the Player that paced it respawns.
And engi can defuse it.

A tank Player Plays engi nontheless, so even a sticky c4 wouldn't be a Problem. Kill the placing Player, get out defuse, get in again.

You're losing 200 nanites vs the target who loses 450. Suck it up.

It used to work like this. It was interesting to say the least. It was cheesy enough to fix to say the least.

As many people here can attest.. I believe any tanker who gets blown up by C4 deserves it. I really do. But it doesn't need any buffs. Its literally fine as it is.

C4 is fine as is, and this comes from a C4 user.
I think it has been reported to have animation problems though, that make the brick not match the actual hitbox, hence some hits not registering.

Other than that, when you sneak up behind a tank, you deserve to blow it up.

Honestly, maybe that's becaus I play VS, but i rarely get C4ed in a tank (maggie or lightning).

I've always personally wondered if when you drop 2x C4 (or Tank Mines for that matter) and they detonate, does that actually count as two hits or one? I've searched, but haven't been able to find anything, so I was wondering if it has actually been tested?

What about when one explosion triggers the other (say, you drive over 1 Tank mine, which triggers the other one)? What if an enemy blows up the C4, (team)killing the target and leaving you without a kill? What if I place a Tank Mine near another persons C4 on the ground, an enemy drives over my Tank Mine (which isn't enough to kill the vehicle) and detonates the C4, netting me a C4 kill. Does that increase my C4 accuracy? If that is the case, can we then have >100% accuracy? My point is, there could be many situations where such a number could get influenced.

Also, when you say 22.9% you are also including the myriad of C4 being used for other purposes than killing tanks, like pilots throwing C4 at aircraft after their own aircraft has been destroyed, people strapping C4 on flashes, TK's with C4, infantry suicide charges with C4 etc etc. Just saying, that extrapolating that "tank hunters" on average spend 600 nanites on C4 alone to get a kill seems way exaggerrated! If that isn't the case, people are either REALLY REALLY bad at hitting with their C4, or they die an incredible amount of times in the (VERY SHORT) time-frame between dropping the C4, and the explosion.

Am I somehow doing something magically right since I don't ever have to spend ON AVERAGE 8x C4 to take out a tank? And I'm not even using LA for dropping C4 and I don't have THAT many kills with it (because it feels too cheap and easy).

I'm also not advocating for either a buff or nerf, just saying such numbers need to be used with consideration to the factors that can bias them, before being used to extrapolate from them. A quick glance at Oracle shows the KPU and VKPU of C4 users to be somewhere in the order of 3,5 and 1,5 respectively, implying that by far the majority of C4 spent is spent on infantry, and as such, that usage influences the data more than the vehicle users will.

Yes, there are many edge-cases that have to be identified and looked at, but there are as many "against" C4 as there are in favor.

There is a high likelyhood that C4 actually detects only one hit when detonating, because you "fire" twice but the actual detonation and hit detection in one moment. You could see it as a shotgun: no matter how many pellets hit, one hit is counted and one shot is counted. C4 is just two pellets fired separately and one hit. Even then you are still looking at an average of 300 resources per tank, which considering the range of the weapon and delivery requirements is still wildly expensive even if you don't count all the failed attempts where C4 was never even considered.

On the other hand when it's about K/D and VKPH suddenly these numbers are assumed to be absolutes. 27,5 vehicle kills an hour on average? OH MY GOD THE OPNESS! That's 1 vehicle per 2 minutes! That's plenty of time to spawn, walk around a base, look for a target, flank him and blow him up!
...
If you are assuming the player is holding the C4 in his hands the whole time.
Personally I have a VKPH of 92.2 with C4 or 1,5 vehicles per minute. I would have to spawn and run straight at a target I already know was there to achieve that!

Except ofcourse, I don't, and neither does anyone else.

When do you grab C4? Well when you are about to dump that high explosive on top of someone and not sooner. You aren't going to run around with C4 in your hands if you could run into a gunfight at any moment! You are going to be holding your primary! The switch time will rarely even add up to the TTK when you finally arrive at your opponent. Just for that fact, having a VKPH of 1 per 2 minutes is mind-bogglingly large! It means that once people have actually decided to blow up a vehicle, they take a bit more than 2 minutes for it?!?
Ofcourse not, we need to substract the infantry-only kills. We could just assume that each vehicle kill you also kill one player on average, which is a kinda low number seeing the multi-seat vehicles that get wrecked more than often enough. That means that of the 59.8 KPH 32.3 were infantry, the rest was drivers. With this we can estimate how much time on average is used for infantry and how much for tanks. This means that 54% of the time using C4 it was targeted at infantry rather than vehicles (which is different than your estimate using KPU since you forget that you often kill the driver and possible passengers/gunners as well, who still counts as infantry kill). This means that of the two minutes between killing a vehicle, 1 minute and a few seconds are spend chasing infantry. The remaining minute is spend chasing vehicles...
A full minute chasing a vehicle with C4 out in your hands? The final approach alone, at which point many players already grab C4, takes a maximum of 5 seconds, 15 seconds if you use Drifter from high up (which most LA still don't). What's the remaining 45 seconds spend on? Hanging about? No those are failed C4 strikes! Strikes where no kill was made!

On the topic of TTK, every tank driver will instantly scream "It's a OHK weapon!"
But is it, really? Imagine if we used a new type of Carbine with remote-detonation bullets that upon detonation deal the same damage as normal bullets. You fire them on the target and deal no damage, only when you detonate it does it deal damage. Is that a OHK weapon? Because it kills in one detonation? Or does everyone agree that the weapon would have a TTK of the time needed to get all the bullets into your target plus the time it takes to detonate it? Such a weapon is in fact bad for you unless you get an auto-granted silencer that doesn't affect your COF or recoil. And even then it's only useful when sneaking up on someone, dumping a magazine into them while they don't notice a thing, then detonating it causing the enemy to go "WTF?"
Even a freaking mid-ranged Carbine would only be good for sneaking up on enemies to blow them up! How on earth do people manage to miss an LA, or worse a freaking engineer or Medic, creep up on them, take the time to plant 2 C4 and murder you without the player even being aware of them? You can drive in any direction to prevent getting hit by 2 C4. Most vehicles have weapons that need only one hit and have several tries before the LA can drop his. Just knowing the LA is there is enough to save your butt time and again!
It's like a shotgun vs a sniper, or better yet a Heavy with a long-range LMG, only the shotgun user starts at 300m range and the sniper has 5x the speed and is immune to all other small-arms weapons. That sniper/Heavy has no business getting killed by the shotgunner, all he has to do is spot that damn shotgunner in time, then either shoot him or run to get away, if not both! You are a tank, even in "enclosed spaces" you are at mid-range levels for infantry! You can spot your enemy approach and it's over for that LA. If you actually use those things called "tracks" and use your tank as a tank instead of a glorified turret you can actually make yourself virtually immune to C4 unless you don't see the C4 being dropped way ahead of you in your path.
The whole reason tank drivers think it's a OHK is because they didn't see it coming. They just see a big flaming pillar of failure followed by the deathscreen showing that neat explosive package.

Here's for instance what happened last week: We were attacking howling pass and friendly tanks suddenly started accusing players of using C4 teleportation techniques to teleport C4 next to them and murder them.
Howling Pass has lots of open ground and two easy ways to slingshot LA above the enemy tanks. So I looked up and found 2 LA were doing slingshot runs. I warned everyone in regionchat and started spotting them for my allies and fired at them... And after 5 spots that ended in LA pasted against the floor with failed C4 strikes or premature death the LA gave up, and only one tank died. It was absolutely no surprise to me that the person who first accused them of C4 hacks was the one who failed to notice and die. I gave him all the options! I spotted the enemy, I weakened them by shooting them, I forced them to move lower and closer to the target since they had less time, and still they die.
It's not as if the game has more then enough tools to help you protect against C4 strikes. There's proxy radars, you can place Spitfires, you can use powerful anti-infantry top guns with clearscopes to easily find and murder any LA that even dares look at you, there's the option to just ask someone to look up, there's methods to simply hang around friendly infantry who will do the looking for you. And when I personally suggest things like "let's allow mineguard to also protect against C4", what's the reaction you think? Rather than a standing ovation I either get chirping crickets or tank drivers going nuts about how they should be invulnerable to C4 anyway!

And really, with so many deaths to C4 is there any excuse at all not to be using anti-infantry turrets more often? Isn't that what you usually do? If you continuously meet snipers you are going to adapt and use equipment and tactics to avoid getting sniped. But if players are faced with C4, what do they do? Use tactics and weapons that prevent C4? No they just sit there all surprised and repeat the process all over again!

One issue with the accuracy stat for C4 is that it is one of the few weapons that is "fired" twice, and this may affect the stats based on how accuracy is calculated. Given the other strong performance statistics for C4, I expect that the real accuracy of C4 is probably about twice that of the listed one. This is probably closer to most of our experiences with C4, in that roughly 1/2 bricks will hit something.

It's probably also true that C4 that has been detonated by someone else (another explosion or bullet) does not count as a "hit" for the player who "fired". If I toss a C4 that gets set off by a rocket before I can detonate it, I don't get any kills from the C4 and it probably is not tracked as a "hit". This will also artificially decrease the accuracy of C4.

For these reasons it's a pretty faulty assertion to say that people are spending 600 nanites to get a single kill... getting infantry kills alone would be much more productive than that!

I'm new to LA play and none of this means anything to me. The sheer joy of watching a whole tank - a whole frickin' tank man! - just blow up because I tossed a couple of handbags at it is totally awesome. Sorry - I'll grow up someday and start looking at the cost benefit equation eventually. I don't mean to dismiss the views of other posters who obviously have a lot more experience than me.

And if I die in the attempt (as I frequently do atm) - well, that's part of the game..........use it or lose it, git gud or whatever (choose your favourite cliche). You pay for C4 once (per brick) and use it forever more subject to resources IIRC, which renew themselves over time.

C4 has very large kill radius that makes it hard to miss with. The only time I really miss is if a vehicle drives out from under my throw or I die before I can detonate. Otherwise its pretty much guaranteed to hit something. Before the swarm stats page went down I had almost (1.9 something) 2 to 1 kill rate with ~40% accuracy. I also had more than 50% score(300k vs 200k) with C4 than my second closest Orion LMG with about 30% less kills (1337 vs 659). This means that C4 was killing very high score targets (MAX and Prowlers give lots of points).

What I think people neglect to see is that C4 is guaranteed against abandoned vehicles. Are we sure vehicles don't count as kills? I am very close to auraxium with C4 with 659 kills and 410 vehicles. It's obvious medals don't differentiate between infantry and vehicles.

I understand that failed attempts should come with a consequence, but losing150 nanites for something that didnt activate due to the sheer time to prep and actually detonate seems a bit off imo. If not losing nanites, i wpuld ratber have the detonation time be lowered. Pressing that button feels like ages on end.

Its not nanites that truly worry me, its the prep time from deploying them, and then the detination time. The prep time is easy and makes sense since you're delivering highly explosive bricks, but as said earlier its the detonation in pressing the button. Thats where i die the most. Midway to actually detonating, i get killed while my player takes his sweet time. From the replies, it makes sense to lose nanites from c4, to deter people from trying over and over again. But i think maby resucing yhe time it actually takes to press the button would be best. It makes more sense when youve infiltrated a sundy spawn spot and are in the middle of defenders. Those wxtra seconds you stay to prep and finally detonate are extremely crucial, especially in bigger battles. Thanks for the feedback though.