ESF airfights...

Okay, call me a "sky knight" or "air ninja" or whatever you want to call me, but I hate what daybreak did with the recent updates. For starters, this hatred stems from the new changes to the noob rockets, aka the coyotes. Why does coyotes now lock on to esfs with stealth? I have max stealth, and now it seems like the purpose of the stealth is being undermined. Why did they even have the nerve to buff the coyotes damage-wise too? So many people cry out to daybreak saying that coyotes ruin fights, which they do, and what do they do, make it even stronger? Just slap me directly in the face why don't you? I don't care about these "sky codes" or whatever you want to call it, but it is sucks when I try to encounter another esf, and they turn around and blast me with coyotes. Now it is worse since they lock on to esfs with stealth.

To be honest, I think they should of just made it to where coyotes do not lock on to esfs period, but daybreak went the complete opposite way. I get that they want more people to play, which means more money, so they made flying easier for people who lack skill, but this is just terrible. Now, someone who has flown exclusively for nearly 2 years now, since it is the only thing I still find fun, has difficult taking on a mediocre player who picked up coyotes 5 minutes ago and just locks straight onto me with no timer or anything. And for fighting them from a distance, that isn't possible because I use rotaries. I shouldn't have to completely change my playstyle to accommodate for noobs.

And to the people who say "oh you are just some skyknight worried about his airgame", what if daybreak just completely decided to get rid of biolabs? Hundreds of "elitist farming snipers" would flip **** because they can no longer do what they love doing, which is farming biolabs. Of course I am speaking hypothetically, because I doubt that will ever happen, but the list goes on and on, so "sky knights" wanting their fun and skillful airgame back is no different from hundreds of other playstyles this game has.

Adapt and overcome? Stop using the rotary if coyotes are such a problem for you. Or use coyotes yourself. This game has been constantly changing for years. If you can't or won't change with it, then you will get left behind.

As for stealth, its purpose is mainly to not show up on radar, which is even more important now.

And biolabs are fun for farming, but farming is such a cancer to the game that I could get on-board with them removing biolabs. But that obviously wouldn't stop farming, since it's possible to farm a 100 different ways in PS2.

Main problem with "adapt and overcome" idea here is that this isn't real war, this isn't life and death. This is a game that's supposed to be fun. If something isn't interesting anymore, people adapt by leaving the game. Maybe not overnight, but gradually more and more people lose interest and quit

It's the game company that has to adapt to players, not other way around

i love the new changes, especially the coyotes
now i have a chance against those air kings if i get the drop on them
i used to survive in the air between 5 to 10 minutes now i fly for 15 to 30 minutes

there are still pilots good enough to kill me even when i get the drop on them
but this is a 1 to 10 ratio, and i like it

i remember esf kings names if they killed me many times
and now i get my revenge, now i hunt them down
flying high in the air waiting for airplanes to drop on with my coyotes
this big karma glow feeling i get when i drop on ground farmers, indescribable
i still think coyotes need a bigger buff cause those top ten flyers still kill me in seconds

the best way to kill those air kings in to lay back a bit high in the air, over watching things
as soon they start farming drop down really fast and attack
or if team mates are in a air battle, i do the same thing
drop on them with my coyotes and opening fire with my nose gun

i know some air kings will cry when they read this, and some will just laugh and think bring it on
but the laughing ones are now a minority

EDIT: i only fly when there is a lot of air and a lot of distractions for those air kings
if the air game is low they still kill me with ease
i need to get the drop on them

So you are basically saying:

1) I was never good enough at air;
2) I never bothered putting in enough time to reach the higher competitive levels;
3) I have been given a noobtube weapon;
4) I like making revenge kills without regard to other people's gameplay experience;
5) I am okay with ruining a part of the game for some dedicated pilots, because I was never good at it anyways;
6) My noobtube is not powerful enough yet because I cant instagib pilots who practised 2+ years.

Ok, got it. You really need to review your life, mate. You sound like a ******** kiddo.

Stealth is even more useful now than before since it occludes you from the universal radar they added. It was always ridiculous that it would completely negate the effect of auto lock on weapons like the coyote.

Having a high skill ceiling with a very tough learning curve is all very well if you can control match making, this game can't. Elite pilots roam about smashing noobs who have few means to evade or escape them (since pros tend to use tanks). That is far from fun for the majority and is the main reason so many people are put off flying.

i dont think they ever intended for stealth to make you immune to missiles (obvious?),
imho stealth now does what it should, make you immune to radar.

The main problem here is that you can't see beyond your own wishes.

The people complaining now have lost some power, traded their comfortable niches in for a more challenging gameplay. Just like people complained when the ZOE was nerfed so that everyone could enjoy the game rather than just the VS people using it for the farm, just like when people complained when the PPA was nerfed to make it more enjoyable for everyone but the few people who kept using it solely for that farm.

You can either adapt and overcome to find the enjoyability, or you can leave. Frankly if you leave it's completely OK, because an overall more enjoyable air-game is better for the entire game compared to an air-game that is enjoyable only to a few.


For a last comparison:
The Dev's have created a game for 100 people. One player has the highest skill and can mercilessly murder everyone else, causing no one to enjoy the game but that single player.
The Dev's have the option to leave it like this because that one player enjoys it (although soon not as much since all his fellow players have left) or to change it into something that at least 70 players will enjoy, but will leave the top player with less enjoyment since he can't murder as mercilessly as before.
You are advocating here that the Dev's should protect the single player that enjoys it, rather than make it more enjoyable for everyone. That top player can adapt, we can assume he didn't get there by being lazy. The top player will remain top player, he can't farm as hard anymore but he can still enjoy.

These changes are ok imo. Just coyotes shouldn't be reloadable in background while firing with main gun.

What I dislike of this is the Valkyrie is still untouched: it has no place in the game (a transport vehicle in a game where vehicles have no cost, supposed to provide close air support but vulnerable to other aircraft, fast insertion vehicle but slower than the Galaxy).

well you can put it this way, but hear my story
when i started PS2 it was impossible to start flying cause of the high skilled air players
now i have a chance to use my little flying skills to get this chance
the way i see it there is nothing wrong with some competition

or are you one of those cry baby's who cant take the competition
and who do you call a ******** kiddo, take a second look at your reply
i knew i would make someone cry, need a tissue?
just think off me the next time you get surprised by coyotes while ground farming
now that i have a chance in the air i will only become better and there is no more exclusive air play for air kings
well done DBG, your getting closer to opening air for everyone
keep tweaking that air game, take away hovering and you will see my skills

No, not at all.
You should review your life. Or at least your view on reality, because it is definitely not objective.

The infamous "noobtube" was the underbarrel grenade launcher in CoD.
Due to the fact that it only needed a single hit it enabled bad players to occasionally defeat a lot better players with a lucky shot.
If an extremely good players used it he would basically win every 1v1 - since he got the good aim and doesn't need the luck.
Drawback - since its singleshot he is screwed if he meets more than one.

The Coyotes on the other hand are definitely NO one-hit-kill. They have low dps, and excel at what they do because they are exceptionally easy to use.
Very good players using it gain nothing - using the nosgun will yield a lot more dps, since they have the skill for it, and even the noob will heave 100% hit with coyotes.
Drawback - well, its low dps.

Those two weapons have literally nothing in common.
In fact, they are pretty much exact opposites.

To make a long story short:
The Coyotes are an efficient but not very effective noob weapon that newer players can rely on until they get the hang of aiming with the nosegun.
Corollary, if you lose airfights because of the Coyotes you are simply not as good as you think you are, since apparently that low skill/low dps weapon yields better results than your high skill/high dps weapon.

Coyote is sort of like a shotgun, close range damage that will get hits at close and punishes the rotary/ambush style that a lot of previous ESF pilots are accustomed to. Removing the ambush factor by adding engagement radar and forcing some users to go with stealth causes ambush pilots to lose NaN if they want to keep their playstyle, however many pilots are stubborn and keep it anyway and expect nothing to change.... very wrong...
Now that coyotes are counterless, it is a viable anti ESF option, however relying on them solo does punish the user because its low dps, however the constant burst helps demotivate the opponent from trying to charge and expect no consequences, dashing around your opponent relying on the aircraft not being able to turn fast enough is no longer a viable option for breaking line of sight.

thanks

It was supposed to say hurt in the behind, but apparently that's considered foul language.
And no, I don't need your tissues. I can handle myself just fine in the air. I'm not even sure why you are talking about my skill or in-game behaviour. The point I was trying to make was aimed at your way of reasoning and how I think that it is toxic. But if you do not wish to listen, who am I to force you to?

Would you then be OK with it if I changed noobtube to easymode?

If what you are saying is true, then why are people suddenly crying about the (over)effectiveness of coyotes? Are you telling the aces to "git gudder"?

How about this. If you're so good, kill the noob before they get in range. If you can't do that you are the noob instead and deserve a respawn screen.

If you die, its because you screwed up and your opponent took advantage of your ineptitude. If you were better you'd get the kill. The game changes, change with it or be a noob and die.

Make a choice, fight and adapt or take it like a little *****. Stop complaining because you're saying you just want to lie down and take it.

I agree with AZAN.

Stealth was great before for many reassons. It was chosen very often. Stealth is different now, but it still has many reasons to select it. All the Defense slots have something to offer now. Choose the Defense Slot you want and go with it.

If you are doing ESF A2A, and having problems facing Coyote, why don't you use Coyote? Coyote is currently the main formal ESF A2A Weapon.

I think you all nailed it. These changes (so far seem to) allow more player to get into the Air with less of a performance chasm between players. It's more in line with the other areas of the game.

I doubted that these recent changes would work out this way because I believed A2AM were nerfed to cater to Skyknight lobbying/favoritism. Demigan pointed out Coyotes would fill the noob tube role of the old A2AM, but I was skeptical. If things continue as they seem now, then I stand wrong, Demigan was right, and I will owe an apology to Wrel for blasting him.

Why not use Coyotes + Vortek? You could outgun them pretty heavily. If you are taking on an opponent who has 2 A2A Weapons and you have 1, you are technically outgunned.

In addition, I am sure your 2 years of experience makes you a significantly higher performing ESF pilot then these less experienced players. It's just now it's not an auto-win for you. And now you can't just rush into a situation or camp an enemy Warpgate and rely on your huge skill/power gap to shut down other ESF pilots from being a significant threat.

Also, I just got ganked by (at least) 2 Reavers when I engaged an NC Lib over TR airpace. The killscreen showed the Reavers both using Vorteks. I am an above average pilot and I was using Coyote, but Vortek has a very fast TTK and Reaver has the fastest top speed in the game and so can dictate range. The Vortek was used as a Gank Squad weapon before, it's still viable now in that role.

Gank Squad are very effective, and I think DBG should change the game to reduce their effectiveness (via perma Air Radar when over enemy Air Space) when running inside enemy airspace and far from the frontline or their ally airspace.

I actually think DBG should either get rid of or greatly adjust Bio Labs. Especially on a Lattice they are terrible at breaking the Combined Arms aspect of the game.

I think the old ESF Airgame was neat and unique (from what little I know of other games), but I don't think it was a good fit for PS2.

Yes, easymode would be correct.

I don't know why there is a sudden outcry, but if I had to guess it is either because those guys were using Tomcats before (which are now useless against ESFs) or because a lot of new guys appeared in the sky and the aces find themselves in the middle of a swarm noobs with coyotes....

That being said, I don't tell them to 'git gudder'.
I tell them to stop being delusional.
I can take down a flying noob with coyotes, and I'm mediocre at best.
If they go down 1v1 because of coyotes one of two things happened:
1. They weren't as good as they thought to begin with.
2. The other guy is not a noob, and sacrificed his afterburner for an edge in combat.

This is something that would really help since a small squad of esfs can really terrorise noobs around the warpgate while front line pilots have no clue its going on. Stealth could maybe reduce how often you are updated on the radar.

I also think the other thing is safe zones, currently the only truly safe location is a warpgate. Player made bases let you build safe zones at the moment but they don't cater to esf's much as they rarely have ammo or repair sunderers. If we could build ammo and repair pads in these bases, pilots could use them as safe harbours to repair and re-arm in safety. If these pads reward the builders with XP, then people will have an incentive to build them.

I think a more interesting and perhaps balanced option would be to let player bases build air warning radars do team-spot on anything over 75m at 750 - 1000m

This would enable people who want to infiltrate or ambush people have to assess a risk from low altitude flying. It would be powered by cortium from the silo, and would likely stick out above the base, making it somewhat easier to take down.

I would like to direct some people to the following video, if they have concerns that Coyotes are OP. Always remember that it could be much worse, as the tracking cone on Coyotes, while improved is still silly.


Thats what a current generation IR seeker warhead can do. Yes, you did just see it do a complete 180 and maintain tracking throughout. Obviously PS2 is not real-life, but perspective is important.



Here's a proposition to consider:

What if you had a stealth like cert that would reduce your radar signature, but also your heat signature (Meaning some coyotes would miss). The trade-off you would have to make is a 10% engine power loss (Because you're fitting large heat sinks and cowlings over the exhaust plumes. Would you cert into that?


Finally, as your video cookie for the day:

Agreed.

They really should also add an "All Faction Air" Voice/Chat Channel for each Continent. So pilots can hop on their and coordinate, or non-pilots can hop on and ask for assistance. It's pretty dumb that this massive Combined Arms Team game doesn't have a way for each Team to actually coordinate/communicate well. It's all routed through outfits now, which is like making Cell Phones only work with the people who are on your phone bill.

I have mixed feeling on those Player Made bases. Those bases just pop up wherever, they are a pain for most units to actually try to take out (seems like only a handful of units are really good at affecting them: and ESFs are not part of that handful), and they either (1) don't matter (usually) and are ignored or they are somewhere important (rarely) and a pain in the *** to deal with.

Yes, ESF can fly into them, just like ESFs can fly into Bio Lab basements. And it's super easy to fly in/out of those Sky Shields (unlike Bio Labs basements). But it creates this massive anomaly on the playing fields that ESFs have no real method to deal with... other than just staying the heck away.

But I can see adding such Safe Zones to Ally bases deep inside Ally territory would help players do evade certain death from Aces hunting deep inside enemy borders or camping Warpgates. But Gank Squad TTK will still probably get most lower skill pilots unless they are right next to the Safe Zone.