The Prowler is not OP.

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Sh4n4yn4y, May 30, 2016.

  1. Meeka

    None of the tanks are OP; they each have their strengths and weaknesses... and with the Magrider, it isn't so much the tank that's under powered that's the problem; it's the skill curve required to operate it. It's a harder tank to master, but when you do... you can pull of some seriously insane stunts and obliterate enemy armor up close and personal.

    I don't think the statistics are a good indication of how powerful the tanks actually are... but it's a pretty good indication that people are finding some tanks easier to use than others. After all, you don't run a Vanguard like a Prowler or a Prowler like a Magrider or a Magrider like a Vanguard; and none of them like a Lightning; each tank has its own little quirks and learning curve. For instance, I see a lot of Vanguards eat dust because people do the stupidest thing ever and put 'Racer' on them; everyone does it because they feel the tank is too slow... it's supposed to be slow, it's a brute... but Racer in a Vanguard is a death sentence. You might as well slap a "kill me now" as your bumper sticker. :p

    As for the Prowler; a locked down Prowler is a sitting duck, one of the easiest targets to kill in the game; I don't know why anyone would ever choose lock down; the Prowler is the absolute best tank for hit and run tactics, lock down is a waste, especially when the Prowler truly shines when it's stealth and mobile on the battlefield.
  2. Syllabear

    Ive been killed by a prowler in two seconds (ive used my vanguard shield).
    I am okay with the prowler beating the **** out of you 100% of the time and the only tactic you have is to hit and run like a *****. But atleast give the prowler a weakness: an easy fix for me is to reduce their hp, like a lighting.
  3. Dethonlegs

    In my mind Prowler VS Magrider is a lot closer balanced than Vanguard VS Magrider simply because whoever gets the drop will win. I'm happy to drive my mag right up behind 2 or more prowlers as I know there is good chance I'll take them all out. Doing the same against a vanguard is plain suicide.

    An experienced magrider driver won't often loose to any tank at distance, but then again you won't often win either as they can just retreat. This is why taking on vangaurds is so frustrating as you need the perfect combination of range, terrain and good luck to win.

    In a head to head fight against either tank in close, the mag is going to die. There is a small chance you can pull a legend maneuver vs a prowler and win, but against a vanguard all you can do is to park over it and bail. The debris gods will sometimes smile on you.
  4. Azawarau

    I have more than a few problems with it but lets start with

    A line of vanguards wouldnt be nearly as efficient as the prowlers in a group

    Its much easier to break that formation

    Mag riders can strafe but that doesnt help them except at ranges where their giant gravity obeying shot isnt terribly easy to land. Advantage prowlers

    And getting an opposing tank formation on a group of prowlers when theyre already deployed, being healed, and have a distance and likely sight advantage is impractical

    You can just pretend that theres any kind of comparison to be made there

    Vanguards shield is nearly useless in that kind of situation because when youre in a camp convoy youre being healed enough that you dont need it and when youre attacking a camp convoy youre going to be outranged and outgunned before you can be useful

    Best bet is to use air.

    Though TR win in AA too
    • Up x 1
  5. LodeTria

    Maybe you should explain your reasoning rather than not at all.
    Most people use racer vanguards for the acceleration boost rather than the top speed. Running racer isn't a stupid thing to do.
  6. Meeka


    Yeah, it is a stupid thing to do; tanks are highly vulnerable from the rear... anyone who is even half-competently attacking a tank will circle around their target, even if initially engaging from the front, will time their shots to hit the rear. The Racer does not allow you to turn your tank fast enough to counter enemies circling around you or those engaging you from behind; not from Harassers, not from Lightnings, and not even from other MBTs... and if you're trying to escape with Racer, that's even worse, since it just makes you an easy linear target, as an open target going forward is still an open target going forward, no matter how fast it gets there.

    Tanking had always been one of my main things; Rival is a necessity, not an option. Rival, even in a Vanguard, can turn your tank fast enough to counter even Harassers from circling you and preventing them from getting the critical rear shots necessary to destroy your tank. It allow allows you to maneuver more easily if you get ambushed by infantry by taking evasive maneuvers, and more importantly, allows you to circle other tanks more effectively to expose their rear. With Rival, I almost always win 1v1 encounters with MBTs (even if I'm in a Lightning) because I can easily shark other tanks (which usually choose Racer); and if they try to run instead it's just a dead target. Rival is also a better choice when aircraft decide to engage you, you can easily outmaneuver a Liberator's tank buster and often escape the Dalton by circling around obstacles or trees by hugging them... something you can't do in a Racer.

    I have thousands of vehicles kills (mostly tanks) and thousands of infantry kills (all using AP) to my name; and this is from up close engagements or infantry trying to C4/mine my tank, not from sitting on cliffs trying to hit things from 100s of metres away and not from spamming buildings with HE or HEAT rounds, as I use neither of those. And hell, the number of Liberators and ESFs I've taken out because of my ability to maneuver and counter with Rival is probably pretty significant as well.

    Racer is good for ONE thing.... getting places; but once you get there, you're screwed when it comes to actual combat.

    Rival all the way, forever.
  7. Demigan

    [quote="Meeka, post: 3399293, member: 140909"snip.[/quote]

    Eh, the Vanguard with racer is the way to live. Vanguards with Rival cannot rival other factions, you have a lot more use trying to use speed to outmaneuver your opponents than using your turn ratio. So that's what you do: Use speed, use racer.

    I often hunt down other MBT's, I'm not a "sit still and fling shells at the opponents while ducking in and out of cover" guy if I can avoid it. The speed is what helps me get in the positions I need without getting mauled along the way, and some solid predetermination can go a long way in solving any problems that Rival might try to solve. The gap in which Rival will give you an advantage when you are actively looking for your opponents next move is just too small, while the extra speed is a life saver more often than I can count.
  8. LodeTria

    It does. You can nearly always keep your side armour on a target that is trying to close range circle you, and at longer ranges this isn't even an issue. The harasser is the hardest to do this with, but it is not impossible to keep side armour on it with racer. you generally do this by not moving and only rotating, or reversing whilst rotating.

    I can understand not using racer on a lightning, because that thing turns like mollases without rival, but on the vanguard it is not a huge loss to not have rival. The reverse speed is nice though when backing from infantry.
  9. Slandebande

    I had to split up the replies as it was over 20,000 characters. Therefore my post is divided into 2 parts (1/2 and 2/2).

    1/2:
    I personally find Vanguards MUCH harder to dislodge from such a position, even when using flanking manuvers. When flanking such a position, being able to remain unnoticed is key, and there are a few key differences between the Vanguard and Prowler that come to play here. Against Vanguards, a typical reaction from the driver to taking fire from behind is to pop the Shield, and start turning. This forces you to either hide out the duration, or die to the Vanguard. Already here, you have lost 6 seconds, where the crew is able to spot you. If you want to finish the job, you have to expose yourself again, where you will be spotted nearly 100% of the time.

    Now, consider the same scenario against Prowlers: You open up on one, taking a good portion of the tanks HP, and since they don't have Shield, they know they cannot possibly win any fight, so 9/10 crews will simply bail in that situation. You will also be able to finish the tank and scoot away much faster compared to a Vanguard.

    The crews might come after you and spot you of course, but that is the same in all scenarios, so I left that out. It doesn't happen near 100% of the time though, at least if you are flanking properly.

    Also, I'd argue that in a 1v1 situation, a Vanguard requires much more "effort" to take out, compared to going for a Magrider/Prowler, since you need to take the Shield into account, and you being able to wait it out safely (this isn't always possible). Note, 1v1's can often be forced with allies nearby, hence why I'm still referring to it as a 1v1-scenario, despite claiming it is dangerous to seek cover during the Shield time.

    They wouldn't have the offensive power that is for sure, but they would be nearly impossible to dislodge from such a position. Without flanking maneuvers, I'd much rather be facing Prowlers in such a situation, than Vanguards/Magriders. Vanguards are simply unkillable, as they can just back away and keep Shield for emergencies. Magriders are going to be difficult to hit, and have a much easier time getting back into cover again. Prowlers (especially in such a situation) also tend to have a much harder inherent ability to keep up situational awareness when firing, for obvious reasons.

    Well you aren't taking into account the ES-abilities. It isn't anything new that the Vanguard is lackluster without the Shield, and the Prowler is the best base-line tank. Of course, I'm not opposed to changing such things and have participated in many discussions upon the subject, just saying.

    I'd personally prefer a single-shot cannon, but that's maybe just me. I dislike Anchor for many of the same reasons (some additional reasons as well). I can list my points on this subject if need by, but I've already written them in numerous threads (ninja-copying it into here wouldn't be the biggest hassle though).

    I've seen this thrown are so much, but have yet to have someone actually back it up properly using the available statistics.

    VKPH (last 30 days, averaged per day):
    Prowler:
    • P2-AP: 13,04
    • Gatekeeper: 10,1
    • Vulcan: 10,87
    • Halberd: 10,71
    Vanguard:
    • Titan-AP: 10,37
    • Enforcer: 12,41
    • Mjolnir: 11,84
    • Halberd: 12,27
    Magrider:
    • Supernova FPC: 11,27
    • Saron: 13,58
    • Aphelion: 12,61
    • Halberd: 14,79
    Average numbers: Prowler: 11,18 / Vanguard: 11,7225 / Magrider: 13,0625. Note, the average values are not weighted, so they should be taken with a grain of salt.

    So, here we can see the P2-AP outperforming the other main cannons, but similarly, the Prowlers secondary weapons are being outperformed by any of the other secondary AV weapons. Of course, such a deviation is to be expected, due to the power-distributions between the main/secondary weapons, as well as 1/2-usage effectiveness. Nothing here implies that the Prowler is "the clear-cut winner", but feel free to explain if you feel otherwise.

    MBT deaths (last 30 days):
    Prowler:
    • P2-AP: 37455
    • P2-HEAT: 10951
    • Gatekeeper: 12504
    • Vulcan:
    • Halberd:
    Sum: 60910

    Vanguard:
    • Titan-AP: 35112
    • Titan-HEAT: 7474
    • Enforcer: 10486
    • Mjolnir:
    • Halberd: 9096
    Sum: 62168

    Magrider:
    • Supernova FPC: 26111
    • Saron: 12394
    • Aphelion:
    • Halberd:
    Sum: 38505

    Note: There was no data in the top 24 of either TR/VS Halberd deaths, and the same goes for the Vulcan and Mjolnir. The entries without a number are killing less than 8k MBTs. You could then say an additional NC secondary is admitted, which is true, but the NC are using the Halberd/Enforcer combination roughly as much as the GK (a bit more actually, but not that much). Meaning the Vanguard actually destroys more MBTs than the Prowler. Again, I see nothing implying that the TR are "the clear-cut winners". Once again, feel free to explain if you disagree.

    VKPU (last 30 days, average per day):
    Prowler:
    • P2-AP: 5,47
    • Gatekeeper: 2,22
    • Vulcan: 1,66
    • Halberd: 1,85
    Best case scenario: 7,69
    Worst case scenario: 7,32

    Vanguard:
    • Titan-AP: 4,77
    • Enforcer: 2,63
    • Mjolnir: 1,62
    • Halberd: 2,75
    Best case scenario: 7,52
    Worst case scenario: 7,4

    Magrider:
    • Supernova FPC: 5,32
    • Saron: 2,96
    • Aphelion: 2,28
    • Halberd: 3,37
    Best case scenario: 8,69
    Worst case scenario: 8,28

    When it comes to VKPU the Magrider seems to get the most bang for its buck, with the Prowler/Vanguard being roughly equal (in my opinion). They are clearly destroying more enemy vehicles than the Prowler/Vanguard are, on a per tank basis. It should be noted that in the "worst case" scenarios, I left out the CQC-AV weapons, as only the Aphelion is really useful there in my opinion, and the stats would get very biased towards the Magrider if that was used.

    I urge hesitation in using single data sets, and prefer large sets of comprehensive data, which at least recognizes the differences in the tanks in the analysis (like the Prowlers main cannons being a larger portion of the tanks overall DPS when used 2/2, the Prowler being more effective with less certs poured into it, and the additional prowess of 1/2 Prowlers compared to 1/2 Magrider/Vanguards). Otherwise, solely looking at KPU, the Magrider would seem like it overperforms drastically, just like it seems like the Prowler massively overperforms when only looking at 1/2 statistics.
    Overall I'd be hard pressed to argue for the Vanguard/Prowler overperforming, but rather that the Magrider is underperforming.

    There is a difference here, which I've already explained. In order to finish the job against a Vanguard, you have to stick around much longer, meaning your risk increases exponentionally. Magriders have the option of escaping, meaning you have one additional enemy out there who knows your rough location. Prowlers are forced to bail out of their tanks. Using the scenario you used earlier, about tanks camping on a hill with Sundies, there is a DRASTIC difference in how the scenario unfolds, depending on which type of tank is flanked, and who is being flanked. If I'm being flanked, the tank I would LEAST prefer to be in, is the Prowler, by far.

    I disagree, based upon the aforementioned issues. Escaping with your life intact is definitely a bonus, and being able to survive at least an extra 6 seconds increases the risk of the flanker significantly. None of which I would determine as "more or less equal". Escaping with your life > having time to let allies know the position of the flanker (but still die if flanker sticks around) > dying. At least in my opinion, maybe you value dying higher than I do ;)

    Personally, I don't jump into GK Prowlers for a few reasons. 1) the driver is most likely to be bad, rather than good. 2) assuming a driver has both, equipping the GK over the Halberd implies wanting to fight at longer ranges, I'm not interested in that, at least not without a coordinated crew against superior numbers 3) I feel I can use the Halberd effectively enough that it is superior 4) I find the GK boring to use 5) IF the driver is good, and isn't going long-range, then we are handicapped due to having a weapon equipped that doesn't synergize well with typical experienced tank crews SOP. Just to list a few. Why all the random plebs aren't jumping into to? Beats me :p

    It could also be based upon a weapon being more effective at killing off enemy vehicles before the crew can escape. For instance, against a Vanguard, it is often noticable whether you will win or lose the fight earlier than against, say, a Prowler/Magrider, which gives more incentive to bail from the tank. So while it CAN imply what you are saying, it could also be attributed to other factors as well.

    On the contrary, it is exactly those opinions I'm most excited to hear, because they are generally based upon experience using all the variants (for example, using all 3 MBTs). They are also less likely to be (as) influenced by bias, due to a change affecting them in several ways. How that could be a bad thing is beyond me :) I myself have spent many hours in the MBTs of all three factions.
  10. Slandebande

    2/2
    Contrary to what many people believe, the Vanguard isn't actually that slow. It is cumbersome (in that it has issues making sharp turns at high speeds), but it's top speed is pretty fast (can't remember specifically, but somewhere along 66KPH or so). The low acceleration is easily countered by using the gear-skip maneuver, which, much like the reverse maneuver, seems to be a feature rather than a bug. The only way a Magrider is faster, is if it uses maxed Magburn every time it's ready.

    I'm not sure what you are trying to say here. Are you saying a GK out-DPS's a Saron within mag-dumping range? Because that is just flat out wrong. And yes, a Magrider will lose in a fair fight against a Prowler up close if you are going to just sit there and shoot, but you should be avoiding such fights at all costs as a Magrider. Fighting effectively against Prowlers (especially now with the introduction of the GK) is based upon fighting around the Prowlers higher DPS on paper, by trying to limit the DPS advantage. How does the Prowler achieve superior DPS? It relies on sustained fire (even more-so with the GK), meaning seeking cover between reloads is a must. Simply doing that maneuver effectively greatly lessens the advantage of the Prowler, and lets you kill them pretty easily. A short explanation, but I hope you understood.

    The Magrider also has an easier time getting into ambush positions than the others, and simply has to take advantage of it. I'll also say that fighting Prowlers at long-range with a Magrider is totally do-able, you just have to learn how to hit stationary targets (which shouldn't take that much practice TBH).

    If you are playing on PC, I hope you have bound the relevant turning binds to your keyboard/mouse buttons, instead of solely relying on your mouse to turn your Magrider, it is MUCH more effective. If you are on PS4, that is standard I think, so disregard it. But using that maneuver is actually effective in certain cases, but you have to time it very well, preferrably between both your own AND your opponents reload. I use it at times, if the situation is just right.

    Magburn is also swell to simply top off your baseline top-speed if used on cooldown, which shouldn't be underestimated.

    While being ~13% faster than a Vanguard is an advantage, the small differential means you aren't going magically escape in an instant. You aren't going to be much faster at getting into position either. What the Prowler really has going for it over the Vanguard, is it's ability to make sharper turns while still mainintaining a reasonable speed, meaning it is better near places with a lot of cover. However, those very same places typically favor the Vanguard, as it is easier getting up close to "abuse" the Shield. A bit of a two-sided issue in my opinion.

    I agree on the DPS; it is handy to have in certain situations. That advantage is based upon a large flaw though, namely relying on sustained fire, which is easy to exploit from the enemys point-of-view (like I explained above).

    I personally consider being forced to sit on a hill to "play to its strengths" to be a weakness. That is because by sitting on a hill far from the battle, you are typically not engaging the really important/dangerous targets, and if you are, it is generally pretty easy to take cover from things shooting at you from far away (even smaller pieces of cover can completely hide your hull at such ranges). You are also much more exposed to aircraft, at least if you aren't in a large coordinated group, whereby any important/dangerous targets will have an easy way to spot you and avoid you. You won't be killing many of the experienced tank crews roaming around halting your push from 400m on a hill at least :D

    If you come up against a 2/2 Vanguard in your 2/2 Prowler, and you both start firing at the same time, you are generally going to lose unless you are using a Vulcan (and then you most likely just got lucky), due to you having to Anchor first, before getting the real advantage. This is assuming a fight from the front, if the Vanguard jumps you in the rear, you are dead. As are you against a Magrider. I don't think I've ever lost a duel against a Prowler in my Magrider where I landed the first volley. Just scoot back behind cover while reloading, and come back out and you win, more-or-less.

    It is only a miniscule part of how I use a tank effectively. But then again, I'm not into farming newbies, I'm into having an impact on fights, meaning I hunt experienced enemy MBT crews, important Sundies, Stealth Sundies (which you won't see from far away on a hill), outfit vehicle-convoys etc.

    You don't have to flank it up close in the sense that you can easily take the fight at range if you can hit stationary targets (which should be child's play for anyone remotely competent). The downside is that you shouldn't ever be losing a tank to enemies at very long range. However, that last bit goes both ways, in the sense that you shouldn't ever be losing your tank to those Prowlers sitting on a hill at 400m either.

    How are you going to kill a competent Vanguard at long range? They have plenty of time to Shield up and seek cover. Just like taking out a competent Magrider at super-long range is practically impossible. My point is, in order to kill any of the MBTs sporting a competent crew, you have to get in close, and typically flank them. The Magrider is the only one that can really be "bum-rushed", but it is also the one that is least likely to remain stationary in a certain area for long, which sort-of cancels it out. The Magrider is also FAR more unpredictable compared to the Vanguard/Prowler, in that it can escape (and arrive) from almost anywhere. When I'm fighting against NC/TR, I have a pretty good idea of potential flanking routes etc, but fighting the VS is drastically different in my opinion.

    Thank god the GK is the AV-secondary I fear the least then! Besides, the GK isn't alone in this feat at all.

    Then the Magrider pilots are terrible, sorry, but that is the truth. I love fighting Prowlers, especially in my Magrider. And ever since they've gotten the GK, almost everyone uses it, and it just makes my life countering Prowlers even easier.

    There isn't really much terrain that prevents Magrider from going where they want. And if one of them simply charges in (towards the front of a Prowler???) while the other cannot engage implies they are ********.

    Even if they can't engage at the same time, just engage one at a time, and back down before being destroyed. Then the 2nd Magrider comes, forcing the Prowler to keep firing. The 2nd Magrider falls back, since the 1st Magrider has repaired (at least somewhat) in the meantime, and the Prowler is dead, no questions asked unless you are terrible. If you combine it with my SOP against Prowlers (exploiting their reliance on sustained-fire) it should be child's play for 2 Magriders to combat a Prowler.

    If the Prowler has FS, then it doesn't have Anchor, and simply cannot take out 2 Magriders in a fair fight. If the Prowler doesn't have Anchor, all it has going for it at long-range over the Magrider, is the GK. The projectile characteristics of a non-deployed P2-AP compared to the Supernova FPC are pretty similar, and the slight difference (25m/s, meaning around 11%) isn't going to mean a Prowler can hit while the Magrider cannot. So a non-Anchored Prowler doesn't have much going for it at distance. If the Prowler is using Anchor, it is stationary, and then the Magrider can hit easily. If the distance is shorter, the Magrider can easily perform a pincer maneuver (you don't have to coordinate this, just look at your allies movements, and move appropriately).

    I find that, with proper positioning, I can practically always have time to turn my tank sideways (90 degrees), and Magburn into cover, meaning I won't take fire to the rear. You do know you don't have to turn your tank 180 degrees in order to escape right? ;) Luck has nothing to do with it if you position yourself properly and/or know the terrain at least somewhat.

    You have to treat the Vanguards sort-of like a Prowler, but instead of only seeking cover between reloads, you seek cover after it enables the Shield. Acting like you cannot kill Vanguards at all using a Magrider is a bit silly, although they can be pretty damned difficult to kill if they are even slightly coordinated.


    I agree that the firepower of a similar Vanguard position would be lessened to a degree (but much higher Alpha potential, which helps somewhat), but I strongly disagree with them being easier to break. First of all, Repair Sundies are simply more effective on Vanguards, both due to their superior armor, but also due to the fact that they work while the Vanguard is shielded. The Shield (combined with Repair Sundies) should mean that killing one of them, is almost impossible, Since they can just back down into cover (and use their Shield if things get hairy, while getting repaired by a Sundy).

    If the Prowlers are going to be effective at such ranges, I'm going to assume they are Anchored (because otherwise, the Magrider isn't really at much of a disadvantage). Being Anchored, means they are stationary. If you cannot hit stationary targets, you need practice. Strafing isn't also only about performing a full-tank-movement dodge, but rather the much smoother movement overall of the Magrider can be used to take advantage of cover much more effectively than the others. The Magrider can come up on either side of a hill, or anywhere along the top, without having its accuracy reduced much, especially compared to the other targets. I find that engaging Prowlers effectively with a Magrider relies a lot upon this tactic, i.e. using cover whilst reloading, and popping up in places the enemy crew isn't directly aiming (meaning you gain an extra split-seconds advantage while they zero-in on your new location).

    I prefer to take them out with singular (or perhaps duos) of MBTs flanking them. Either that, or simply focus-firing them down from range, since they are trivial to hit.

    I find the VG shield to be pretty effective due to it making it much harder to focus-fire the tanks down one-by-one, especially when they are receiving repairs. Just a personal observation though of course.

    Really? At least when it comes to MBTs, the Titan-AP destroys 50% more aircraft than the P2-AP and Supernova FPC. I don't see the TR secondary AV-weapons outperforming the others as a whole either.
  11. TeknoBug

    If you ask me, it's the other way around, Gatekeeper can be more effective at closer range and especially against moving vehicles over the Halberd, the Halberd can be devastating at long range more than Gatekeeper can be once you get the hang of the gravity drop. At least that's my experience on my TR toons.

    Also the numbers for the 3 MBT's, there's almost always 3x more Prowlers on the field compared to Magriders (almost always the case on Emerald), but it doesn't surprise me that the Magrider averages rivals Prowler's- the larger the population, the worse the average gets and most of us knows VS is very often underpopulated and TR is very often overpoulated.

    I don't often fight in vehicles in PS2, but I usually feel more comfortable in a Prowler than a Vanguard and Magrider because even if the gunner that's in my tank is a braindead monkey, at least we can still get kills with the Prowler, with the Vanguard and Magrider you need a good gunner.
  12. Slandebande

    The thing about using the Halberd over long range (when I say long-range I'm implying something like 300m+ for the record) is the travel-time of the projectile compared to the GK, which makes it easier to dodge. With a Halberd it is pretty difficult to land a shot on a vehicle moving at high-speed at 350m, due to the travel time combined with the drop. With the GK, that feat is quite a bit easier to at least deal SOME damage, but you of course won't be doing the same "OOMPH"-damage the Halberd does. I'd agree that the Halberd shines if you are able to jump the target (even at long range) since you then get to land a much higher alpha-volley compared to using the GK. Which is also why I'm using the Halberd all the time.

    At the shorter ranges I prefer the Halberd for a variety of reasons. One being that the Halberd simply synergizes better with typical tank-crew SOPs, in that it is effective at firing off a volley, and seeking cover whilst you reload. It is also more capable of taking advantage of momentary mistakes the opponent might do (like turning your rear) with a higher efficiency, as well as being more effective against "nimble" targets like Harassers, that generally move in and out of cover. When on the receiving end of a GK, you are never in doubt about when you are going to die, meaning you will know when to seek cover eariler. Against a Halberd, the Harasser driver might (mistakenly) think they can survive another volley from the MBT, and die before reaching cover. I also prefer the Halberd for the AI-potential against capable threats (meaning not against the random infiltrators), but rather experienced enemy infantry actively hunting your tank, in that it allows your gunner to 1-shot them. With a GK they would just seek cover when low on Health.

    Fighting against a GK (especially on a Prowler) relies on one of two things: Flanking them (= dead Prowler) or mitigating their DPS advantage (which relies upon sustained fire). Remove their option of keeping sustained fire on your hull, and you will negate most of the advantage the Prowler has over you. Typically achieved by seeking cover between reloads. It quickly becomes quite trivial.

    For the record, the lastest numbers show "only" about 60% more Prowlers than Magriders. Regarding the numbers, I simply stated that there wasn't anything in them implying the Prowler was by far the best tank. I stand by that statement, regardless of potential diluting effects. One would have to determine the correction factor regarding "dilution" of the stats in order to accurately predict anything. I will acknowledge it exists though of course. I could similarly argue that there was less incentive to pull tanks when you are overpopping, meaning the effect has a rubber-band sort of thing. Not saying there is, but it is terribly difficult to estimate the impact of such parameters accurately.

    Aye I agree the Prowler is friendlier towards newbies (both gunners and drivers, but mostly gunners due to the GK). However, once you being rolling with an experienced crew, I find the value of the Prowler diminishes steadily. Just my personal experience though, so don't take it too seriously of course.
  13. Meeka


    .... and if there's are obstacles around you? No, it doesn't. And all your target has to do is slow down and let you zip ahead and your rear is exposed.

    And in Rival, Harassers are a piece of cake; one isn't a threat, and two should be manageable for any solid Vanguard driver. :)
  14. Meeka


    Is that why nearly every MBT (and even Liberator) loses against my MBTs (mainly Vanguard these days) in a 1v1 situation, and often in 1v2 situations as well? And my tank never sits still, it weaves in and out around obstacles, through forests, around rocks and cliffs. :)
  15. Demigan

    That's probably because you do move, but somehow confuse the ability to weave through things with the insight to actually flank your opponents for an advantage.

    Try it, get Racer, I think your score will actually increase.
  16. Who Garou

    Prowlers aren't OP, it's the Vulcan and Gatekeeper that are OP.
  17. Syllabear

    I dont know what you guys are talking about but i use mlg85 on my vaguard and it goes awesomely well.