WHY NOT TRY CONQUEST MODE?

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by elkikko92, May 27, 2016.

  1. elkikko92

    Actual lattice system has no strategy
  2. Crator

    Game started out this way, without a lattice. A lot of ghost capping and avoidance of fights occurred. Lattice was introduced to garner more and bigger fights.
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  3. Shiaari


    Unfortunately, the hex system permitted too much freedom of movement to allow for an entertaining game. Pre-lattice PlanetSide 2 was a really pretty game of Whack-A-Mole.
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  4. Demigan

    No-lattice system provides even less strategy, since it's basically "pick random base and hope the defenders didn't predict it and defended it". Even if the defenders defend you, you can easily pick another place to attack.

    Lattice system works better, it's not perfect, but it's better. It would be pretty damn good if we could build lattice-generators in enemy territory. You have to punch through enemy lines with an ANT, get in the area you want, build the lattice generator and you are set to attack the base there. But it instantly creates a nice dynamic between trying to hide and defend the lattice generator while at the same time trying to hold the points.
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  5. Gundem



    So instead, we have a full hex system, but in order to cap you have to build a Lettuce generator in range of the enemy's capture point?

    I like the sound of that, though it could use some polishing.
  6. Okjoek

    I really like that idea. It would add a new dimension to the game without being too easy to abuse.
  7. OldMaster80


    Every now and then you come out with this request.
    The quick answer is: because removing lattice wouldn't be enough to make the game strategic.

    That's because in Planetside 2 all it's needed to capture a base is 1 player, who doesn't even have to stay on capture points or be around. As long as it remains like this removing lattice is not possible. 1 year ago we tested the Conquest Mode and feedback was clear: it sucked.
    Moreover in this game attacking bases doesn't imply any "logistic" complication as vehicles have almost cost zero. You can attack from A to B even if there is a mountain in between because moving soldiers in this game is easy, fast and cheap. Without lattice any lone wolf could attack anywhere just because of territory adjacency. We've seen this for months, keeping territory under control was not possible unless players redeployed every minute. You called that "strategy"? To me that was crap.

    Should devs ever consider to remove lattice, then they should radically change the capture system: at least a full squad should be required to start a capture, and they should never leave the territory until it's conquered. But this is not a mil-sim, it will never happen.
  8. Demigan

    Yes, we definitely need salad to capture bases.

    Jokes aside, I'm actually not opposed to the idea of going back to the hex system but requiring lettuce generators to be able to attack. Even though my actual idea was to keep the lattice system, but allow players to link regions that aren't normally connected and capture them. That way you can get passed a Biolab so you can use all 3 teleporters and better take it over, or bypass it altogether. Or you could use it during alerts to keep ahead of your enemy and attack a facility prematurely, or maybe you could even coordinate a large-scale attack on all AMP stations/Biolabs/Techplants for the VP points.
    The balancing factor is that a Lettuce generator would be obvious, since the region would be linked with something it shouldn't be linked with and is being attacked. The actual position of the lettuce generator might not be shown but it's easy to figure out that it's somewhere within that base's region.
  9. Eternaloptimist

    But surely it's the players who make the strategy, not the game?
  10. zaspacer

    I do think the non-Lattice works during Alerts. Where each Faction is much more concerned about overall territory control. But non-Lattice fails outside Alerts because of the game's Reward System and how players go for the rewards.

    As many above have said, the game used to not be Lattice. And once the gameplay settled after launch, we saw lots of either (1) large zergs that avoided each other and ghost capped, and/or (2) solo players who ghost capped. It was a lot of combat avoidance, because the game rewarded for taking bases but didn't really reward for defending bases or for grinding out a slow big fight. Players wanted to take single bases, and would avoid enemy forces that would just slow them down. Also, outside the ineffecitve Order system, there is no real way to coordinate forces to take on a giant enemy force (other than everyone reacting on their own to an enemy Cap status on their base), and almost nobody wants to fight in a battle where their Faction is massive underpop.

    Lattice also addressed the problem of dwindling players leading to lack of bigger fights, by forcing all players into narrow lanes so there were larger concentrations of players.

    Before Continent locking (and before Population Caps), we also saw each Faction moving to become the Overpop on a different Continent: they wanted easy to steamroll bases so they could grind and get rewards.

    And much like the historical Maginot Line, even the concept of prepping bases for defense in a non-Lattice system is often ineffective: the enemy zerg will just drive to another, easier base.

    I don't love Lattice. It's the game on rails and makes for the same fights from the same directions over and over. But until/unless they change the game's reward/player-behavior-influence system, Conquest format will lead to lack of good fights.
  11. The Rogue Wolf

    The majority of players will take the easiest path to a reward. Ghostcapping is more boring than watching a mime watch grass grow, but that's what people were doing just for quick and easy XP.
  12. Haquim

    Easy? Yes. But I really doubt the quick part.

    It is worth mentioning though, that since then XP has become a lot easier to get.
    Ribbons in particular are worth quite a lot, and I think getting ribbons once in a while increases XP for stuff like repairing and resupplying by 50% or so.
  13. MonnyMoony


    You could have a hybrid system though which sees the capture rate dependent on connected hexes. Attacking an area with connected hexes would have a capture rate similar to now (perhaps adjusting the time up or down a little depending on the relative number you and your enemy have)

    Also have it so you can capture isolated bases - but the further they are away from a connected hex - the longer it takes - so if you are one hex removed - it takes 5x longer, two hexes removed takes 10x longer. This would make it possible to capture strategically important bases like AMP stations and Biolabs without being connected - but there would be a time penalty and thefore additional risk in trying to do so.

    Couple this with the requirement for at least one person to stay within range of the spawn point until it is captured, otherwise it starts to flip back. That should strongly discourage ghost capping whilst at the same time allowing a bit more flexibility than lattice gives. No lone wolf stalker is going to sit around the capture point of an isolated base for half an hour and it's not like they can just leave their character sat there while they go and have their dinner - as the server will log them out due to inactivity.
  14. OldMaster80

    In fact strategy is also possible with lattice. Imho a variant to this system, possibly involving the Construction, is worth being investigated.

    But with current capture mechanism simply removing lattice would mean jumping backwards to total anarchy like it was after launch.